dAVe80 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I think Clive Lewis is very much the left's next big hope. Working Class lad, been in the forces, and socialist values. If he can't win back the traditional Labour vote, no one can. I wonder if it might be too soon for him though. He's only been an MP since 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Jon said: The next Labour Leader resigned from the shadow Cabinet last night. member of 3 trade unions ..It's in the bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2017 2 hours ago, dAVe80 said: I think Clive Lewis is very much the left's next big hope. Working Class lad, been in the forces, and socialist values. If he can't win back the traditional Labour vote, no one can. I wonder if it might be too soon for him though. He's only been an MP since 2015. The lefts next big hope is surely a lottery win (not euro millions obviously) because it's about the only thing they are going to win in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 The left has no hope whatsoever except false hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 May as well just accept 100 years of Tories, Kippers, and the Alt Right then, hey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, dAVe80 said: May as well just accept 100 years of Tories, Kippers, and the Alt Right then, hey? Dunno. I don't have the answers. I share your concerns, but I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. That's EU lightbulb regulations for you. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Dunno. I don't have the answers. I share your concerns, but I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I do. Since the Brexit vote, I've become more active within a couple of left wing groups. I go and speak to people on the High Street even. I'm encouraged that the rise of the right isn't as prevalent as I'd feared. There's a lot of misinformation, and a general lack of knowledge, but when you scratch the surface, people want what the left has to offer (all be it, with me mostly talking to people in a North East market town). The issue is (and I don't want to turn this into another opportunity to bash JC) getting the message out there, in a way the general public can understand, and (yes, I'm going there), the mainstream media can't spin. Cards on the table, I support JC, and have mostly stopped commenting on this tread, as I think I'm fighting a losing battle with most of you, but I do concede that JC is far from the finished article, and that he's probably in a position where he can't win. Eventually he'll be ousted, and at that point we need another left leaning candidate to step up, because that's the direction the party wants to go, and that's what is going to be the real alternative to what the Tories and the Kippers can offer. Edited February 10, 2017 by dAVe80 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 18 minutes ago, dAVe80 said: Maybe I'm an optimist, but I do. Since the Brexit vote, I've become more active within a couple of left wing groups. I go and speak to people on the Hight Street even. I'm encouraged that the rise of the right isn't as prevalent as I'd feared. There's a lot of misinformation, and a general lack of knowledge, but when you scratch the surface, people want what the left has to offer (all be it, with me mostly talking to people in a North East market town). The issue is (and I don't want to turn this into another opportunity to bash JC) getting the message out there, in a way the general public can understand, and (yes, I'm going there), the mainstream media can't spin. Cards on the table, I support JC, and have mostly stopped commenting on this tread, as I think I'm fighting a losing battle with most of you, but I do concede that JC is far from the finished article, and that he's probably in a position where he can't win. Eventually he'll be ousted, and at that point we need another left leaning candidate to step up, because that the direction the party wants to go, and that's what is going to be the real alternative to what the Tories and the Kippers can offer. We haven't had a left government win an election in this country since 1974 ... why do you think this is this support for what the left has to offer ? a central government with some left leaning policy .... well maybe but I don't see an appetite for Corbyn'esque policies even if you replaced him with a media savy version 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2017 Exactly Tony. What they need is New Old New Labour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: We haven't had a left government win an election in this country since 1974 ... why do you think this is this support for what the left has to offer ? a central government with some left leaning policy .... well maybe but I don't see an appetite for Corbyn'esque policies even if you replaced him with a media savy version When I say left leaning, I mean centre left, as opposed to hard left. Apologies, if that wasn't clear. I genuinely believe people are looking for an alternative. Maybe not everywhere part of the country in huge majorities, but from my experiences, and talking to people at national level, there is certainly an apatite for left policies. At the moment, and in the past 20 odd years, we've just had different shades of blue (and now purple). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 44 minutes ago, dAVe80 said: When I say left leaning, I mean centre left, as opposed to hard left. Apologies, if that wasn't clear. I genuinely believe people are looking for an alternative. Maybe not everywhere part of the country in huge majorities, but from my experiences, and talking to people at national level, there is certainly an apatite for left policies. At the moment, and in the past 20 odd years, we've just had different shades of blue (and now purple). I think what will be interesting is when we are out of Europe, and supposedly some can't blame our woes on Johnny Foreigner, if the finger of blame will be pointed more at the Government. I don't think I can remember a Government getting away with so much with so little up roar as this one. They have decimated public services as a whole but specifically the NHS and adult social care are on their knees. They have blatantly attacked the most vulnerable amongst us be it the disabled, those reliant on in work benefits, or simply those who have hit on hard times and could do with a leg up. Speaking to some though all these ills will be a thing of the past as soon as we stop letting bloody foreigners into the country and I think this Government have taken advantage of that whilst they implement their ideological policies. When we are out of Europe and at best no better off, when the NHS is used as a bargaining tool to get a trade deal with Trump and further privatised, when we have an even greater shortage of medical staff, when all this happens and the finger has to be pointed at our own Government I think that is when you may see a rise of those on the left. It may not seem that way at the moment but Brexit and Trump could well be the catalyst for those of a left leaning persuasion to have a real resurgence. In some ways with the recent protests Trump already has proved to be the tipping point for many. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Labour are not irredeemable. If they can get back in touch with their founding values they may find that they will get back in touch with the electorate. Our current government is divisive and is making right mess of the NHS and like others have alluded to there certainly is an appetite for left leaning politics. Getting those people to unite under the Labour banner is the tricky bit. It's unlikely to happen under Jeremy Corbyn, but that undercurrent of discontent will rear it's head up in the wrong places for a while, maybe UKIP and the Conservatives. Maybe when they've finished demonising immigrants, the EU and the poor, that misguided discontent will expose itself for it's ignorance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted February 9, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, markavfc40 said: It may not seem that way at the moment but Brexit and Trump could well be the catalyst for those of a left leaning persuasion to have a real resurgence. In some ways with the recent protests Trump already has proved to be the tipping point for many. I agree with much of your post but.... Surely the issue is that there aren't enough left leaning people. It's not that there needs to be a resurgence of those on the left, that's already happened under Corbin, what there needs to be is an increase in left leaning voters. I just don't see that happening, I just don't see this country electing a traditional trade unionist Labour Party. So it's once again the centre left position that Labour need to occupy to have a chance of power because that is the only real way they will grow their support to a level that could see them win. The problem is the likes of Corbyn just can't accept that and neither can the unions so Labour is likely to continue to tear itself apart while it tries to come to terms with its reality and the shift from its traditional bedrock. It wasn't just the Unions Thatcher broke, it was the Old Labour Party. Personally the sooner they come to terms with that, united the PLP with its grass roots and if at all possible the Unions the better, only then will they be able to offer anything like a a credible opposition. And boy could we do with one now. The left of Old just isn't a banner people will flock behind anymore, centre left and sensible more business friendly more moderate policies is what is needed underpinned by commitments to the NHS and education. Especially as the Government shows more and more it's true colours as it seeks to punish the weakest of our society so they can cut take rates for the rich. They are immoral spineless turds in the most part, but Corbyn and his cords and antiquated ideals aren't about to bring them too book, now, tomorrow or two years down the line. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I think a lot of people would prefer more leftist policies but need a lot of convincing we can afford them. Corbyn looking like he wants to headbutt anyone who asks a slightly difficult question is a massive turn off as well. Lewis with his BBC background and from what I've see. should be a lot better at dressing up a more left wing (but not overly-so) set of policies that people get engaged with. For all that's happened, I firmly believe whoever holds the centre ground will win most elections. Labour's biggest problem is overturning the SNP though, I think they are utterly screwed up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 56 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: When we are out of Europe and at best no better off Have you got the winning lottery numbers for the next few years whilst you are at it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Have you got the winning lottery numbers for the next few years whilst you are at it ? He's expressing an opinion. One that I wholeheartedly agree with. Do you really hand on heart think that those people that May the cynical old hag refers to as 'just about managing' will be better off in 5 years after Brexit? I'm partisan on this issue and think it could push them to "surviving but not living" status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said: He's expressing an opinion. One that I wholeheartedly agree with. Do you really hand on heart think that those people that May the cynical old hag refers to as 'just about managing' will be better off in 5 years after Brexit? I'm partisan on this issue and think it could push them to "surviving but not living" status. Thing with economies is you can't really predict ... I was on this forum when Brown was talked about as the best chancellor this country had ever had .... you'd probably be hard pushed to find any of those people repeating that claim now , even if they could escape their straight jackets to type the global financial crises obviously wasn't his fault but that's sort of the point ... whose to say what unforeseen events will happen in the coming years ... hypothetically maybe the EU comes crashing down ....Mark could be right and we are no better off but had we stayed maybe we could have been a whole lot worse .... will Mark then be saying phew thank God we left ? short term our currency has been over valued for a while , we've got an adjustment realitivly scot free... the Eurozone is in a debt deflation cycle and trying to drive down exchange rates to break out of the liquidity trap... the man on the street may care more that their pint on holiday in Spain is costing more but short term it's boosting our economy ... long term , dunno that's way above my pay grade as they say I'm sure many are relishing being able to come back in five years time and say i told you so ... but like it wasn't Browns fault , maybe it might not be Brexits fault either , unless you subscribe to the view that Brexit emboldened Trump supporters etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Good post Tony. But I've got a crystal ball that's already told me, Brexit will be a mess and Labour will be in the doldrums under Corby. And I won't relish repeating my prediction in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: I agree with much of your post but.... Surely the issue is that there aren't enough left leaning people. It's not that there needs to be a resurgence of those on the left, that's already happened under Corbin, what there needs to be is an increase in left leaning voters. I just don't see that happening, I just don't see this country electing a traditional trade unionist Labour Party. I agree with much of what you say. What I think has happened is that those on the right have felt they have had a real cause to get behind in terms of what they perceive as issues with immigration and I think they have united behind that and that made a massive contribution to the way the referendum went and I think it is also a reason why Trump was elected. Many people were duped into thinking there is a simple solution to why their public services are so poor, why their wages have stagnated, why they are struggling to get on the housing ladder or why there is a lack of social housing. The simple solution they thought, and still think, is less immigration. Too many on the left for me have become apathetic and by doing so are also therefore partly responsible for what has happened. Too many haven't shouted loud enough that what has happened under the Tory Government has been an ideological choice and too many haven't gotten off their arses to vote. As I alluded to in my previous post I think Brexit and Trump may well be the tipping point where as we have seen a rise on the right over the last few years we will now see a rise of the left. I don't think that will be far left I think it will be left of centre and therefore a long way from where we are now. I also don't think in a million years that rise will be led by Corbyn. Edited February 9, 2017 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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