PaulC Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I will be surprised next season if we have anything like the form that kept us in the league towards the end of this season. Even ignoring for a moment the likely departures from the playing squad, I think Sherwood has a massive job ahead in being the day to day manager of a club. All he knows so far are fire fights. Now who knows, he might end up being very good at it. My worry is not even so much his coaching ability which is supposed to be very good (albeit with developing youngsters rather than improving senior players). I really do worry about his gob. I wonder how long a very outspoken person can go without saying something that upsets some of the players within his squad. We've seen before inside and outside Villa that there's a line between putting players in their place and between said players deciding you're just a knob and not playing for you. My worry is Sherwood doesn't know that line. I also worry about the form that we finished the season with. Sherwood's Spurs had much better players and Sherwood was able to beat the sides lower than him but he got properly hammered by the sides above him. If you apply that logic to Villa then we might be in trouble. Again, even ignoring the fact that we might be without Benteke. These are just concerns rather than predictions. But the 'worst case' scenario with Sherwood in charge doesn't bear thinking about. Let's just hope Lerner and Fox give him every chance to do a good job by providing him with the resources to compete. The rest is up to him. Best of luck Tim. I don't actually agree we that we won't reach the form they kept us up next season. I think if he can bring in the right players, a good pre-season training, getting the players fit enough to play his high intensity game then we can even improve on that. The players really wern't fit enough to play that way, hence why we ran out of steam the last 3 games. Edited June 5, 2015 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The only thing that makes me think that Lerner will back Sherwood is the fact that he took the job at all. I can't see Sherwood taking the job knowing the funds to improve would be what they have been previously.Isn't that the same thing we heard people say when Lambert took over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The only thing that makes me think that Lerner will back Sherwood is the fact that he took the job at all. I can't see Sherwood taking the job knowing the funds to improve would be what they have been previously. Isn't that the same thing we heard people say when Lambert took over? It's clutching at straws I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Lambert did spend a fair bit first season to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Lambert did spend a fair bit first season to be fair. In terms of wages, it was probably very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 He spent it on like 13 players. Our biggest signing Benteke probably signed on for 20k. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The argument at the time was that whilst £40 million first season seems like a lot there was a hell of a lot of gaps in the squad that needed plugging. Now it would seem that the same job needs to be done again but with potentially even less funds available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If Sherwood keeps us in the division next season he'll be doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The only thing that makes me think that Lerner will back Sherwood is the fact that he took the job at all. I can't see Sherwood taking the job knowing the funds to improve would be what they have been previously. This for me. I also think Fox is a key here. he sounds and seems like a winner so I cant imagine he left Arsenal for Villa to be lied to about ambitions for the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Probably the wrong thread for this but what do people make of Sunderland's supposed £50m warchest? How is it that they can afford to spend that amount and we can't? It seems we're the only team in the league effected by FFP rules. Everyone is affected by it, however Sunderland's cumulative losses in the last 3 years have been 62m. Remember, we made a 52m loss in just ONE of those seasons, never mind totting up the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 And it now seems that FFP has given this awful owner an nice excuse to hide behind for some fans. FFP affects nothing in the past, only in the present and future. If Bill Gates comes in and buys the club he can put precisely the same amount as Randy would in. In your blind rage against Lerner you seem to forget that a new owner cannot come in and put money into the playing staff beyond the amount Randy has been until other expenses are further cut and/or significantly more commercial revenue is generated by the club. To that end, we hired Tom Fox last season, which was a very good move. Should something similar have happened 9 years ago? Absolutely. Did it? No. What can we do about that now? Absolutely nothing. Swapping Lerner out with anyone else will not make a blind bit of difference regarding how much we spend, in fact, any new owner that comes in won't put anywhere near the money Lerner did into the club. They might well spend less better, however, but I'm getting incredibly frustrated by the amount of people who think "new owner, we'll spend money" or "we're not spending because Lerner is a tight sod". Neither of those things are true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 And neither is this line " If Bill Gates comes in and buys the club he can put precisely the same amount as Randy would in" Incredibly rich owners an spent what they like If they can afford the fine If they can "generate income from revenue streams" a la some new sponsorship from say oh i dont know IBM. Not saying we are getting Bill gates or anything just saying there are ways around FFP. We have a very rich owner, he's just not rich enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 And neither is this line " If Bill Gates comes in and buys the club he can put precisely the same amount as Randy would in" Incredibly rich owners an spent what they like If they can afford the fine If they can "generate income from revenue streams" a la some new sponsorship from say oh i dont know IBM. Not saying we are getting Bill gates or anything just saying there are ways around FFP. We have a very rich owner, he's just not rich enough. Points deductions for domestic breaches, fines haven't actually been confirmed yet. On your other point, you seem to ignore the fact that I mentioned the increase in commercial revenue, "until other expenses are further cut and/or significantly more commercial revenue is generated by the club". Would a mega rich owner be able to do that? They might, but they HAVE to do it to spend more. If we get one and they can then fantastic, but I'm not sure it'll be quite as easy as you do. That's why Fox is here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm in the same field as P3te, sometimes it's better the devil you know, okay Lerner has been a bit slow in modernising the clubs infrastructure, but he's done it now. We can't spend beyond our means, and if you look as soon as FFP became a very real possibility, that's the time he reigned in the spending. Would he have continued with the free spending attitude he had at the start of his reign when FFP first came in? We'll never really know, as the mission at that point was to reign in the annual losses, which unfrotunatley means cutting your cloth accordingly, and our losses where astronomical at one point, so much so if we sustained on that road we'd be possibly in the same place as Rangers now if RL wasn't going to put anymore money in. Anyay, point of my post being, has anyone got the final loss figures for the last few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Not saying we are getting Bill gates or anythingDamn, I was just starting to get excited there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I will be surprised next season if we have anything like the form that kept us in the league towards the end of this season. Even ignoring for a moment the likely departures from the playing squad, I think Sherwood has a massive job ahead in being the day to day manager of a club. All he knows so far are fire fights. Now who knows, he might end up being very good at it. My worry is not even so much his coaching ability which is supposed to be very good (albeit with developing youngsters rather than improving senior players). I really do worry about his gob. I wonder how long a very outspoken person can go without saying something that upsets some of the players within his squad. We've seen before inside and outside Villa that there's a line between putting players in their place and between said players deciding you're just a knob and not playing for you. My worry is Sherwood doesn't know that line. I also worry about the form that we finished the season with. Sherwood's Spurs had much better players and Sherwood was able to beat the sides lower than him but he got properly hammered by the sides above him. If you apply that logic to Villa then we might be in trouble. Again, even ignoring the fact that we might be without Benteke. These are just concerns rather than predictions. But the 'worst case' scenario with Sherwood in charge doesn't bear thinking about. Let's just hope Lerner and Fox give him every chance to do a good job by providing him with the resources to compete. The rest is up to him. Best of luck Tim. This is the most likely scenario, but it would possibly keep us up. And we did beat City, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcTheObsession Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Under FFP clubs are permitted to lose up to £105million over a 3-year period. Villa approx losses last 3 years (most recent first): 4m 51m 17m Therefore my thinking is if we had a very rich owner, he would be prepared to lose more than 72m over 3 years, and push the boundaries further. Although I think due to wealthier backers finding ways of increasing revenue streams they'd actually end up losing less than Lerner despite us spending more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 In your blind rage against Lerner you seem to forget that a new owner cannot come in and put money into the playing staff beyond the amount Randy has been until other expenses are further cut and/or significantly more commercial revenue is generated by the club. So you know 100% fact that what we've spent on fees and wages is the absolute maximum possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hindsight tells us the other 2 kept us upJust on a small factual point, Lambert didn't keep us up in 2014/5 - he was clearly taking us towards relegation, which is why he was sacked and Sherwood brought in who got us results that Lambert could never have got and kept us up.So the safe pair of hands wasn't the best option then.I'd rather have a rollercoaster of a season with Sherwood than watch even 30 seconds more of the football we were playing under Lambert towards the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I also worry about the form that we finished the season with. Sherwood's Spurs had much better players and Sherwood was able to beat the sides lower than him but he got properly hammered by the sides above him. If you apply that logic to Villa then we might be in trouble. This is the most likely scenario, but it would possibly keep us up. And we did beat City, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton. ... Sunderland City? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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