StefanAVFC Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I didn't watch on BT sport and it was clear the high line was killing us. Your only argument is that 'a high line didn't cause the goals' Even if that was true, anybody watching could see we were caught out time and time again with balls over the top. We could have conceded more than 6. And anyway who actually takes credence in what a BT pundit has to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 2, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I didn't watch on BT sport and it was clear the high line was killing us. Your only argument is that 'a high line didn't cause the goals' Even if that was true, anybody watching could see we were caught out time and time again with balls over the top. We could have conceded more than 6. The logic is akin to watching a game where a team against us gets a free header from every single corner but manages to miss the target or it's saved. Then they score from a lucky ball over the top in the last minute to beat us 1-0, and concluding that there is absolutely no problem with corners, but balls over the top are what's wrong. It's incredibly reactive and narrow minded. Edited June 2, 2015 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Unfortunately this is one of those debates that leads to the fallacy of people 'getting on the managers back'. This all came about because people were being accused of bizarre levels of criticism because they dared to question something the manager had done on an internet forum designed for that very reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I didn't watch on BT sport and it was clear the high line was killing us. Your only argument is that 'a high line didn't cause the goals' Even if that was true, anybody watching could see we were caught out time and time again with balls over the top. We could have conceded more than 6. The logic is akin to watching a game where a team against us gets a free header from every single corner but manages to miss the target or it's saved. Then they score from a lucky ball over the top in the last minute to beat us 1-0, and concluding that there is absolutely no problem with corners, but balls over the top are what's wrong. It's incredibly reactive and narrow minded. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 We need a team of players who all love the villa as much as we do, and dont want to leave when top teams come knocking. 11 local lads who have supported villa all thier life would do, a team full of Jack Grealishs. We need a team of competitive smart skillfull football players. Could careless who they support as long as they put a quality performance Heaton,Richards,Sissoko,Townsend,Austin But what i mean is evrytime we are building a quality team, our best players leave and we end up being s**t again, if we only had loyal players we could build a strong team without the big four messing it up. European football is killing us smaller clubs as no players look forward to the Europa & they all want CL football. No one ever says we want to win the league they just want to play in CL and have a kick about. If they cant get into Europa with their current teams what makes them think their gona do anything in the almighty CL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GeordieVillan Posted June 2, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2015 This whole high line thing isn't a case of black or white. To play a high line and make it work, you need to have good communicators, be confident and have faith in eachother as a back 4. Vlaar and Okore are not great communicators and don't seem to click as a pair, and against Southampton we had Bacuna at right back and Hutton at left back, not ideal. I think we can play a high line and will probably do this next season alot better, as we will be practicing it, and also Clark is key as he is the communicator and leader. We need two fullbacks who can actually defend to make it work. The problem with not playing a high line is what we saw against Arsenal - we dropped back and defended deep and surrendered space in midfield. Our midfield then had no chance whatsoever of imposing themselves on the game and we were dominated throughout. When you play that way against Arsenal, you only get a result as a smash and grab, so you will never be able to take the game to them. And we were playing Arsenal, who are a miles better team than us. Lets not forget that Tim has only had a dozen or so games with the squad, and for alot of those our defence has been ravaged by injuries, and those that have been playing are apparently carrying knocks in some cases. Lets judge Tim next season when he has had a pre-season and has brought some of his own lads in. People honestly need to get over the Southampton game, its gone. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaid Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 High line vs Southampton we get screwed No highline vs Arse we get screwed. What would the impact of no highline be on the Southampton game? Our midfield gets screwed, they create chances after chances. Maybe not as good as the one that are created when a highline is destroyed but certainly a lot lot more. Chances of us having a good game vs Southampton was always going to be low no matter what 'tactics' were used because southampton were on fire that day and their players are whole lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 High line vs Southampton we get screwed No highline vs Arse we get screwed. What would the impact of no highline be on the Southampton game? Our midfield gets screwed, they create chances after chances. Maybe not as good as the one that are created when a highline is destroyed but certainly a lot lot more. Chances of us having a good game vs Southampton was always going to be low no matter what 'tactics' were used because southampton were on fire that day and their players are whole lot better. And Sherwood reacted badly, by thinking the best thing to do is to sit back and try to frustrate Arsenal. So he made the mistake of doing a Lambert, post-Chelsea 8-0. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I didn't watch on BT sport and it was clear the high line was killing us. Your only argument is that 'a high line didn't cause the goals' Even if that was true, anybody watching could see we were caught out time and time again with balls over the top. We could have conceded more than 6. The logic is akin to watching a game where a team against us gets a free header from every single corner but manages to miss the target or it's saved. Then they score from a lucky ball over the top in the last minute to beat us 1-0, and concluding that there is absolutely no problem with corners, but balls over the top are what's wrong. It's incredibly reactive and narrow minded. The logic is even simpler than that Stevo. The simple truth is that it wasn't the high line that killed us, it was the inept defensive performance. We all know you had the high line sussed after 90secs and plan B would have been in place before the 1st goal. Unfortunately, the way those defenders were performing, the score would have been similar no matter what. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaid Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 High line vs Southampton we get screwed No highline vs Arse we get screwed. What would the impact of no highline be on the Southampton game? Our midfield gets screwed, they create chances after chances. Maybe not as good as the one that are created when a highline is destroyed but certainly a lot lot more. Chances of us having a good game vs Southampton was always going to be low no matter what 'tactics' were used because southampton were on fire that day and their players are whole lot better. And Sherwood reacted badly, by thinking the best thing to do is to sit back and try to frustrate Arsenal. So he made the mistake of doing a Lambert, post-Chelsea 8-0. Completly agree. Having said that, if he had stuck to the highline against Arse, we'd probably have seen a similar scoreline as 4-0. The reason being, our defenders and goalkeeper are generally very poor. I would have liked Sherwood to play the same way we played when we beat spurs and liverpool. Hopefully he gets in some better quality defenders for next season and gets them ready in the preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted June 2, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 2, 2015 High line vs Southampton we get screwed No highline vs Arse we get screwed. What would the impact of no highline be on the Southampton game? Our midfield gets screwed, they create chances after chances. Maybe not as good as the one that are created when a highline is destroyed but certainly a lot lot more. Chances of us having a good game vs Southampton was always going to be low no matter what 'tactics' were used because southampton were on fire that day and their players are whole lot better. Not that simple though, the reason a high line is "good" is that you squeeze the whole game into a smaller area up the pitch and can keep compact and press high and win back the ball further upfield. If you don't play a high line there is no reason to not be compact, Against Arsenal we were strung out all over the place, you can still keep the game "small" and compact but you have o invite them on in order to not leave space behind. In order for this to be effective though you cannot just look to hit Benteke in the shortest amount of time possible, because you lose the ball 9 times out of 10 and they are right back on the edge of your box again. If we weren't going to press high up the pitch then we shouldn't have been looking to go from front to back so quickly if there wasn't a counter on. We should have kept it and played out from the back and got out slowly. We've seenthese players play keep ball and they can do it well. A high line can work too, horses for courses, neither extreme is "right", but as countless humiliations of a traditional English press high type game have shown us both at club and interntional level, a good technical team with pace will rip you a new one if you insist on defending the half way line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Its easy to be critical but it sounds like we are buggered if we play a highline and buggered if we don't and play deep ....we are just not good enough or consistent enough. Knowing what we had and how we had been playing in previous games, factoring in how Arse had been playing would it have been so surprising if we had of entered the fray with a mandate to play 5 in midfield with instructions to grow in to the game....possibly catching them on the counter. We just played right in to their hands IMO.....i was talking to a few Arse fans in The Holiday Inn.....I asked them if they thought they had to work hard for their win, they said no....and we feel for you guys. That was the crime for me.....not making them work for it. Edited June 2, 2015 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted June 2, 2015 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Our problem was we played a deeper defensive line but didn't drop the midfield to suit. So Arsenal had a huge space between the lines to play in. As Roma says, the point of a high line is to compact the space and give the opposition no room to play in. If you drop the line you have to fill that space with something. We seemed to be caught between two tactics, the defence dropped deep and the midfield bombed on. The front 6 were going "toe to toe" with Arsenal but the defence weren't for fear of getting caught in behind. In retrospect the best option was probably to be boring bastards and keep our midfield deep. Edited June 2, 2015 by Stevo985 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Our problem was we played a deeper defensive line but didn't drop the midfield to suit. So Arsenal had a huge space between the lines to play in. As Roma says, the point of a high line is to compact the space and give the opposition no room to play in. If you drop the line you have to fill that space with something. We seemed to be caught between two tactics, the defence dropped deep and the midfield bombed on. The front 6 were going "toe to toe" with Arsenal but the defence weren't for fear of getting caught in behind. In retrospect the best option was probably to be boring bastards and keep our midfield deep. I agree with all of that....but we wouldn't have been boring bastards, we would have been sensible....at times we think we are Barcelona.....we have gone from one extreme to the other. we need some balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 2, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hopefully Tim will either learn what we are and aren't capable of. Or get in enough of the players he wants to enable us to successfully go "toe to toe" more fo the time. The latter would be more exciting, but also least likely to succeed on our budget, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaid Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 High line vs Southampton we get screwed No highline vs Arse we get screwed. What would the impact of no highline be on the Southampton game? Our midfield gets screwed, they create chances after chances. Maybe not as good as the one that are created when a highline is destroyed but certainly a lot lot more. Chances of us having a good game vs Southampton was always going to be low no matter what 'tactics' were used because southampton were on fire that day and their players are whole lot better. Not that simple though, the reason a high line is "good" is that you squeeze the whole game into a smaller area up the pitch and can keep compact and press high and win back the ball further upfield. If you don't play a high line there is no reason to not be compact, Against Arsenal we were strung out all over the place, you can still keep the game "small" and compact but you have o invite them on in order to not leave space behind. In order for this to be effective though you cannot just look to hit Benteke in the shortest amount of time possible, because you lose the ball 9 times out of 10 and they are right back on the edge of your box again. If we weren't going to press high up the pitch then we shouldn't have been looking to go from front to back so quickly if there wasn't a counter on. We should have kept it and played out from the back and got out slowly. We've seenthese players play keep ball and they can do it well. A high line can work too, horses for courses, neither extreme is "right", but as countless humiliations of a traditional English press high type game have shown us both at club and interntional level, a good technical team with pace will rip you a new one if you insist on defending the half way line. Most of that makes sense. However tis very unlikely that our team can actually play out from the back effectively especially against teams like southampton who are very very good at pressing. in the attacking half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Tim said prior to Arsenal that we were going to have a real go at them and were not there just to make up the numbers. I know that is pretty much a textbook answer in a press conference of a game between a heavy favourite and an underdog but how wrong was he?! Making up the numbers was exactly what we did and have a go at them was exactly what we didnt do. He's a rookie and will have ups and downs. But I just get the feeling that when things inevitably go tits up next season he will lose the plot and lay into the side publically and it will all end in tears. I hope not, had a really good vibe prior to that stupid Soton game. Just hope he's given a decent warchest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted June 2, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 2, 2015 The last 3 games have been hugely disappointing. The players aren't playing with any intensity and it could quite have easily been Lambert in charge. Genuinely think we will be right down there again next season with Sherwood in charge, but won't go down again. There's a huge job for Sherwood to do now and I really hope he's the man to take the club forward. Unfortunately we need yet another season of "transition" (seems we do this every season) as we have a huge number of players to sell and bring in. Don't **** it up, Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Sherwood made some strange team and tactical selections. These were almost forgivable because we were winning. I don't question them to much if that happens. When we went through the 7 wins in 11 run we got so excited at the prospect at winning football games we couldn't question it. Cissokho is clearly the best left back at the club, why hasn't he even been given a run? One of the biggest reasons for our upturn in form Bacuna was just turfed out at the final? Why was a clearly injured Okore played instead of Baker? I understand why Gil isn't starting, but he's not even on the bench. But he's done the main job, we're still in the premier league. But it starts again. He's almost got to build a new team. There's probably no Vlaar, Benteke or Cleverley next season. He probably needs to bring in 6 with the Benteke money and a bit topped up. Add them to Luna, Sylla, Bennett, Cissokho, Shanchez, Weimann, Senderos and maybe even Hutton going. It could be a long summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 While I will be ever thankful to Tim for keeping us up, he is the exact type of manager I didn't wan't us to sign. Now he's here and I obviously support him as we can't succeed if he doesn't. He's had his good moment and his bad moments, time will tell what kind of manager he'll become. I just hope he is a fast learner and not a Randy Lerner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts