Rugeley Villa Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 i find it disturbing how people on here who show any concern about this are just dismissed as racist,stupid ignorant people. i would say i am in the majority nationally who are concerned about whats going on would take it seriously as a national and world threat. Nobody is being dismissed as racist or ignorant for being concerned about attacks like this, or for "taking it seriously". i have in the past. it just seems sometimes you get shot down for having a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I would struggle to take seriously anyone who described the events in Paris today as an example of warfare between 'Islam' and the West. As would I. What I wouldn't struggle to take seriously is the idea that the attack against a newspaper critical of Islamic extremism is in fact an attack against the West's concept of freedom of expression. I think the attackers see the world differently. They see attacks on Islam in their view, and decided to take revenge on behalf of themselves (or their group). I agree, but the inescapable byproduct of their attack is that the democratic ideals of freedom of the press and freedom of expression are attacked as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 we will see what europe in particular is like in years to come then, i think its nonsense in how its played down. just because i am deeply concerned and worried about all this does not mean i am wrong to feel that way, if people are not concerned then great, good for you but everyone is different. You think it's played down? Interesting. What I see is wall-to-wall coverage on all possible media, running together Islamism, Islam and Muslims as though they are all the same thing, and a general sense of threat from some amorphous entity which can reach anyone at any time. If it's being played down, god help us when it comes to be exaggerated. What's happening alongside it is that other acts of extremist violence are being downplayed in comparison. We heard today that this attack was the biggest act of terror since 7/7 (Breivik must be distraught that he's been so quickly forgotten); we heard little about the larger number of people murdered in the Yemen; and that attack on the NACCP office was not given prominent coverage as an act of terror. A more objective view would probably not find that incidents like today in Paris are the ones that get downplayed. on here yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maqroll Posted January 7, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2015 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 it just seems sometimes you get shot down for having a different opinion. Ummmm...yeees...you probably didnt mean it to read quite like that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 i find it disturbing how people on here who show any concern about this are just dismissed as racist,stupid ignorant people. i would say i am in the majority nationally who are concerned about whats going on would take it seriously as a national and world threat. To be fair your views do come across as rather right wing... And yet you've always from what I've seen been welcomed on the forum , even liked ... It's true Villatalk is home to a high percentage of woolly liberals and poxy green voters but even so they always give posters a fair hearing ... So im not sure I get your post if I'm honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Muslim world is in tatters. The vacum is there for these kind of fanatics to exist. Apart from coming out condemning the attacks and imprisoning those who do wrong what else is there? Nothing. Unless they are proven to be agents of a state. But individual Muslims shouldn't be under any obligation to condemn the attacks. It's like demanding that conservative European Christians condemn the Anders Breivik shootings. However, groups like the Arab League should condemn the Paris shooting, just as the government of Japan should. Or the government of Bolivia. Most Muslims living in the western world will condemn the attacks. That's what you don't seem to understand. They just get drowned out. That's what I don't seem to understand, eh? There's definitely a way of debating that doesn't resort to belittling others. Erm, not sure if this was directed at me? Quite the opposite Edited January 7, 2015 by StefanAVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Ah, I suspected so! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 7, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2015 The fact of it is that more Muslims die at the hands of so called Muslim terrorists then non Muslims. If an attack was to happen in Birmingham city centre then chances are just as many Muslims would be impacted as non Muslims. These people do not care. They are maniacs. And no doubt some would believe that their souls would reside in paradise, unlike those of the infidels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baselayers Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 So many angry people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I hear that Mr Cameron says that we must act against the radicalisation of Muslim youth. I wonder if that strategy will consider the question of whether these savage attacks against our citizens in our own countries began a) before or b ) after our involvement in recent wars of aggression against Muslim countries, as the lapdog of US foreign policy; and whether a causal connection is completely beyond the bounds of possibility. Because it's not really about cartoons, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 On the whole, no, but today it would seem that cartoons are indeed the thing that inspired this attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Your point about taking it on the chin is what I meant when I gave the example of the Prophet (pbuh). He took abuse much worse aimed directly at him to his face. He never retaliated in such a way. He kinda did though, once he had the numbers. Islam was spread at the point of a sword (convert or die) by a bunch of psychotic Arab Bedouin who the Sheikhs wisely thought would be less trouble expressing their talents as far away from home as possible. A glimpse at modern Saudi Arabia reveals that little has changed in that regard. Don't mistake me as being anti-Muslim, I'm not. I do dislike the pussy footing around historical truths that occurs in order to avoid giving offence. I know you are not anti Muslim. You are more anti religion. Which I don't blame you for. It wasn't he waited for numbers it was that they were thrown out of their homes. Even when the first battle was fought they were massively outnumbered so it wasn't like he was soley relying on numbers. Modern Saudi Arabia actually makes me physically sick tbh. No doubt war was involved in the spread of Islam. It wasn't convert or die though. If you didn't convert you had to pay a land tax to stay. There were many rules of war formulated by the Muslims at the time. Something that was unheard of during that era really. “Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy’s flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone.” Further, was restricted to the government or army of the opposition not the general populace. Below is some further info: Unequivocally, the general populace was not forced or induced to convert to Islam. If anything, they were encouraged to continue living their lives as they had for centuries before. In the example of the conquest of Jerusalem, the caliph at the time, Umar ibn al-Khattab, wrote in the surrender treaty with the patriarchs of city: 'He [umar] has given them an assurance of safety for themselves, for their property, their churches, their crosses, the sick and healthy of the city…Their churches will not be inhabited by Muslims and will not be destroyed…They will not be forcibly converted.' No other empire or state at the time had such ideas about religious tolerance. Umar, being a companion of the Prophet, sets a precedent in this treaty about the treatment of conquered peoples in Islamic law. For the first few centuries after the Muslim conquest, the majority of the population of these areas remained Christian. Slowly, they began to take on Islam as their religion and Arabic as their language. Today, large percentages of Christians remain in Egypt (9%), Syria (10%), Lebanon (39%), and Iraq (3%). If those early Muslim conquests (or even later Muslim rulers) forced conversion on anyone, there would be no Christian communities in those countries. Their existence is proof of Islam not spreading by the sword in these areas. We see again in the example of Muslim Spain (which would later be called al-Andalus) that the locals (mostly Christians, although a sizable Jewish population also existed) were not forced to convert to Islam. In fact, in later centuries, an almost utopian society of religious tolerance existed in al-Andalus, in which Muslims, Jews, and Christians all experienced a golden age of knowledge, culture, and philosophy. This enlightened land of religious tolerance would end centuries later with the Christian Reconquista which effectively ethnically cleansed Muslims and Jews from the entire peninsula. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I wish I could go into more detail but I am not knowledgable enough about what happened and we truly cant know for fact what happened as history, as with everything, is based on a reading of someone's interperation of said event or events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 7, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2015 i find it disturbing how people on here who show any concern about this are just dismissed as racist,stupid ignorant people. i would say i am in the majority nationally who are concerned about whats going on would take it seriously as a national and world threat. Nobody is being dismissed as racist or ignorant for being concerned about attacks like this, or for "taking it seriously". i have in the past. it just seems sometimes you get shot down for having a different opinion. Well you might get shot down for having a differing opinion. But you won't be branded racist for being concerned about a terrorist attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 As a religion, Islam has been quite oppressed over the years, yet the people I've met who are Muslim have been the kindest, gentlest people I've known. I just wish these **** animals would stop murdering people in its name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 7, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2015 Muslim Spain was OK-ish until the Berber mercenaries rocked up. Then it WAS 'convert or die', and all the rape and slave taking that went along with it. But it's not really relevant. The US led coalition has interfered in the middle east for years, with disastrous effect. But it's no Christian (or atheist) crusade against Islam. First it was cold war shenanigans against the Russians in Afghanistan. The Taliban/Mujahideen didn't mind being given all that weaponry. Since then it's all been about strategic access to oil. Attacks on countries and organisations, not religion. Drone attacks killing innocents in Syria, Iraq, etc., but not Saudi, Turkey, etc. So why should young British or French Muslims think it's their fight merely because of their religion? In WWII Americans were killing Christians in Germany and Italy, but even the Germans and Italians didn't see it as an attack on Christianity. Of course, if a bunch of angry Syrians had gone in shouting "Long live free Syria", it wouldn't have had the same recruiting power for the gullible as "Allahu akhbar". But so many Muslims in so many countries DO fall for it, on the basis of some of the mediaeval spoutings of mullahs quoting directly from the Qu'ran. Which is why I said that Islam needs to start its own reformation - not because infidels like me say so, but for the good of their own people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Depressingly this wasn't even the worst terrorist attack in the world today http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/07/middleeast/yemen-attack/ 27 dead in blast outside Yemen police college 01:14 Sanaa, Yemen (CNN)At least 38 people were killed and dozens others were injured in a car bomb explosion in front of the Police College in the Yemeni capital Sanaa Wednesday morning, two top Interior Ministry officials told CNN. The bomber parked his vehicle in the middle of the road and then boarded another that was waiting for him, said AbdulBari Al Shamiri, a witness to the explosion. "As soon as he left the scene, everyone 100 meters from the explosion was killed or injured," Al Shamiri said. Police recruits were waiting in line at the gates of the Police College when the attack took place, the interior ministry said. No group immediately claimed responsibility for the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Terrorist attack in Colarado also apparently. Although coverage of it is pretty non existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Terrorist attack in Colarado also apparently. Although coverage of it is pretty non existent. doesnt fit the us versus them narrative the media likes to propagate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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