thetrees Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 We have to assess it at the end of the season. If we finish OK I'd stick with Lambert because I don't see who else would take the job and improve us. That's how far we've fallen under Lerner. If we lose the last 4 game that's clearly a different issue. I hope we finish the season OK and Lambert gets some decent money to spend. That investment is what is lacking especially. I still think he can be a good manager for this club, and although I can understand others losing patience, I'm not sure how many managers would have been able to do a lot with a £5-15k wage cap on most players. That's Championship level - hopefully that's not where we end up. The sad thing is our wage cap probably isnt even championship standard more likely league 1. That would suggest that you have some very strange ideas as to how much footballers earn. Also, what is this mythical 'wage cap'? Wasn't Benteke raised to £40k per week (reportedly) last summer? £40k a week in the modern Premier League is not a lot. If anything it's another feather in the cap of the manager that he talked him into signing for 4 more years at that rate when he could surely have earned more elsewhere, off the back of being one of the best signings made by any manager all over Europe. If we were allowed to sign more players at £7m and £40k a week I'd suggest that we'd be doing a lot better. Maybe this summer we will. Whether it is a lot or not is immaterial. The OP quoted a wage cap of £5k-£15k a week, which is clearly debunked by the contract of Benteke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thetrees Posted April 14, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2014 Can I ask Richard, why it is you still have so much faith in Lambert? I know you previously mentioned you had met him and he came across well, but surely there has to be more than that? A few reasons really; 1. Right from the start why come here? Why leave Naaarrrrwich to come here unless promised something. <big speculation snip> 6. Can help but be impressed by the man when talking to him really impressive. So for me there are a circumstances which have not helped him and I guess we'll find out during the summer what our long term standing as a club is. I think we should stick with him rather than change now because changing now would imo be much much worse for us, especially under the current board Point 1. Of course he is going to leave Norwich for the Villa. Villa are a much bigger stage for any manager with ambition. The in between bit you make excuses for him that you don't seem to make for others but that is explained by...... Point 6. You like him personally. There is nothing wrong with believing in someone that you have some kind of relationship with. The trouble is, he is useless, as his track record over two seasons here has shown. Why should we all be subjected to a third season? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 14, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) If by moving the goalposts, it means: he came with the promise of being a bright, pragmatic, up and coming manager with a belief in attacking football, but turned out to be totally dour, inept, arguably worse than his predecessor, and not cut out for the job he agreed to then...yeah, the goalposts got moved. Edited April 14, 2014 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Can I ask Richard, why it is you still have so much faith in Lambert? I know you previously mentioned you had met him and he came across well, but surely there has to be more than that? A few reasons really; 1. Right from the start why come here? Why leave Naaarrrrwich to come here unless promised something. 2. What if, just say, the conversation went something like this "Look Paul we're in a bit of a mess and it's going to take a while to sort us out but this is a long term thing for us. What we expect you to do is get rid of the high earners. They aren't contributing at ll they just aren't value for money and there is no resale value for us. Resale is an issue for us as we can't really afford the huge sums involved to buy the better players so we're going to give you some seed money to pump prime the transfer deals so that you buy em cheap sell em high and you can spend what you get plus a little bit more on top of that. So take a couple of seasons to get rid of them, put some foundations in place build on them foundations. Then for our side in year three we'll relax a little and give you some more to progress. We understand that it's going to be tricky to keep us up but we have faith in you so we want you to know you'll be under no threat we'll stick by you and back you and if you keep us up and make the progression then as we say year three you'll get a bit more, providing of course youve shifted all the earners". In those circumstances he has done what was agreed largely. Rebuilding an entire team on not much money. 3. Now say some things have changed. if goalposts have shifted is that him or someone else? 4. For much of this season he has been without his main defensive signing, a striker he bought to develop and who was scoring a few goals before his injury and has now lost our best player and most potent striker. he has had to juggle team selection to try and find a winning, and importantly, goal scoring formation. 5. We have had no stability and wasted fortunes on changing our management team, doing the same now when the hard work has been done is utterly ludicrous. Unless of course things have changed and there was never an intent to release the purse strings 6. Can help but be impressed by the man when talking to him really impressive. So for me there are a circumstances which have not helped him and I guess we'll find out during the summer what our long term standing as a club is. I think we should stick with him rather than change now because changing now would imo be much much worse for us, especially under the current board Fair enough I appreciate your answer. Would you say you are happy with the ways things have gone though? For me he made a lot of tactical errors, in starting line ups and throughout games. I think he is very passive in his substitutions and doesn't look to have the killer instinct. I'm concerned that we don't seem to have any form of identity as a team in the way we play. I'm also concerned on the lack of development shown by the majority of the players. Not trying to change your ideas (as I know I won't) just genuinely interested in how people can still back him so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Richard, interesting repetition of your reasons for supporting Lambert, which I think we have seen a few times before tbf. Now you've got that off your chest, can you tell us what you know about the row between Gabby and Delph and Culverhouse. That's much more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Richard, interesting repetition of your reasons for supporting Lambert, which I think we have seen a few times before tbf. Now you've got that off your chest, can you tell us what you know about the row between Gabby and Delph and Culverhouse. That's much more interesting. Yes, throw us all a crumb..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Why leave Norwich? Other than falling out with the chairman and not speaking to him for two years? Other than the fact that nobody else came in for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa_shere Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Lambert should stay one more year. Just for the fact that there is nobody else out there who qill do any different from what he does imo. We have had a poor season again but so have half the league. We have had our injuries which havnt helped and Lambert has made mistakes in the summer window maybe not getting a bit more quality in, were his hands tied in January? None of us know. Until Lerner goes or starts backing the manager financially I'd like Lambert to stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 We have to assess it at the end of the season. If we finish OK I'd stick with Lambert because I don't see who else would take the job and improve us. That's how far we've fallen under Lerner. If we lose the last 4 game that's clearly a different issue. I hope we finish the season OK and Lambert gets some decent money to spend. That investment is what is lacking especially. I still think he can be a good manager for this club, and although I can understand others losing patience, I'm not sure how many managers would have been able to do a lot with a £5-15k wage cap on most players. That's Championship level - hopefully that's not where we end up. The sad thing is our wage cap probably isnt even championship standard more likely league 1. That would suggest that you have some very strange ideas as to how much footballers earn. Also, what is this mythical 'wage cap'? Wasn't Benteke raised to £40k per week (reportedly) last summer? £40k a week in the modern Premier League is not a lot. If anything it's another feather in the cap of the manager that he talked him into signing for 4 more years at that rate when he could surely have earned more elsewhere, off the back of being one of the best signings made by any manager all over Europe. If we were allowed to sign more players at £7m and £40k a week I'd suggest that we'd be doing a lot better. Maybe this summer we will. Whether it is a lot or not is immaterial. The OP quoted a wage cap of £5k-£15k a week, which is clearly debunked by the contract of Benteke. Well if you quote selectively it does. If you read it alongside the surrounding words, which is a good way to ascertain the meaning, you'll see it says 'I'm not sure how many managers would have been able to do a lot with a £5-15k wage cap on most players' I'll let you off though, as that's not really the thrust of the argument. Benteke was rewarded with a £40k contract off the back of showing he could be one of Europe's top strikers. The fact is that the transfer targets that Lambert has had to aim at have been severely restricted owing to the paltry wages on offer. Despite that, he's actually brought some decent players in, and that's certainly in his favour. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't see him staying if he's lost the fans. Needs something Saturday to not lose them completly. He hasn't lost the fans. I back Lambo 100% & I am not the only poster who holds that view on VT either. The reality is he has only lost the impatient fans & not the one's who believe in the Lambert Project & see that as the bigger picture. Some fans have only turned recently out of frustration at having to stick with a long term project that has been derailed mainly due to the loss of our talisman Benteke. Get over the line & many of these fans can easily be won back again. Also, there is no shame in being wrong or frustrated because it is only due to the hurt & despair of seeing our beloved Villa languishing down amongst the dead men. Lambert has balls & I like that. As for the fans currently against him I would say "Don't Ball's It Up For The Rest Of Us!" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Oh no, not the "Lambert Project" again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't see him staying if he's lost the fans. Needs something Saturday to not lose them completly. He hasn't lost the fans. I back Lambo 100% & I am not the only poster who holds that view on VT either. The reality is he has only lost the impatient fans & not the one's who believe in the Lambert Project & see that as the bigger picture. Some fans have only turned recently out of frustration at having to stick with a long term project that has been derailed mainly due to the loss of our talisman Benteke. Get over the line & many of these fans can easily be won back again. Also, there is no shame in being wrong or frustrated because it is only due to the hurt & despair of seeing our beloved Villa languishing down amongst the dead men. Lambert has balls & I like that. As for the fans currently against him I would say "Don't Ball's It Up For The Rest Of Us!" Has the fact that 'our talisman Benteke' been largely shite during his 'fit' parts of the season escaped you? I support Lambert on Saturday, but if he needs a lift to Norwich after the game, I am his man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't see him staying if he's lost the fans. Needs something Saturday to not lose them completly. He hasn't lost the fans. I back Lambo 100% & I am not the only poster who holds that view on VT either. The reality is he has only lost the impatient fans & not the one's who believe in the Lambert Project & see that as the bigger picture. Some fans have only turned recently out of frustration at having to stick with a long term project that has been derailed mainly due to the loss of our talisman Benteke. Get over the line & many of these fans can easily be won back again. Also, there is no shame in being wrong or frustrated because it is only due to the hurt & despair of seeing our beloved Villa languishing down amongst the dead men. Lambert has balls & I like that. As for the fans currently against him I would say "Don't Ball's It Up For The Rest Of Us!" 'Impatient fans' 'Project' 'Bigger picture' I thought we'd moved on from this sort of post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) I can't see him staying if he's lost the fans. Needs something Saturday to not lose them completly. He hasn't lost the fans. I back Lambo 100% & I am not the only poster who holds that view on VT either. The reality is he has only lost the impatient fans & not the one's who believe in the Lambert Project & see that as the bigger picture. Some fans have only turned recently out of frustration at having to stick with a long term project that has been derailed mainly due to the loss of our talisman Benteke. Get over the line & many of these fans can easily be won back again. Also, there is no shame in being wrong or frustrated because it is only due to the hurt & despair of seeing our beloved Villa languishing down amongst the dead men. Lambert has balls & I like that. As for the fans currently against him I would say "Don't Ball's It Up For The Rest Of Us!" I really don't get this argument that Lambert has only lost the impatient people. Basically trying to say that those that still back Lamert are better than everyone else. I'm all for stability and long term planning, provided that I see progression on the players development and progression as a team. I don't see this at the moment from Lambert. Besides look at how many managerial changes Chelsea have had in the last few yrs and it hasn't done them any harm Everyone sees things differently and that's fair enough, just don't think the holier than you attitude is called for. Edited April 14, 2014 by mikeyp102 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't see him staying if he's lost the fans. Needs something Saturday to not lose them completly. He hasn't lost the fans. I back Lambo 100% & I am not the only poster who holds that view on VT either. The reality is he has only lost the impatient fans & not the one's who believe in the Lambert Project & see that as the bigger picture. Some fans have only turned recently out of frustration at having to stick with a long term project that has been derailed mainly due to the loss of our talisman Benteke. Get over the line & many of these fans can easily be won back again. Also, there is no shame in being wrong or frustrated because it is only due to the hurt & despair of seeing our beloved Villa languishing down amongst the dead men. Lambert has balls & I like that. As for the fans currently against him I would say "Don't Ball's It Up For The Rest Of Us!" 'Impatient fans' 'Project' 'Bigger picture' I thought we'd moved on from this sort of post. It's not a question of moving on, it's merely a question of acknowledging, understanding & recognising those realities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 just don't think the holier than you attitude is called for. Especially when the evidence suggests they're wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Lambert has been screwed over by the board, but he hasn't exactly made it easy for himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I can't see him staying if he's lost the fans. Needs something Saturday to not lose them completly. He hasn't lost the fans. I back Lambo 100% & I am not the only poster who holds that view on VT either. The reality is he has only lost the impatient fans & not the one's who believe in the Lambert Project & see that as the bigger picture. Some fans have only turned recently out of frustration at having to stick with a long term project that has been derailed mainly due to the loss of our talisman Benteke. Get over the line & many of these fans can easily be won back again. Also, there is no shame in being wrong or frustrated because it is only due to the hurt & despair of seeing our beloved Villa languishing down amongst the dead men. Lambert has balls & I like that. As for the fans currently against him I would say "Don't Ball's It Up For The Rest Of Us!" Has the fact that 'our talisman Benteke' been largely shite during his 'fit' parts of the season escaped you? I support Lambert on Saturday, but if he needs a lift to Norwich after the game, I am his man. Which has actually been one of if not the main reason that we haven't progressed IMO. Last season we were dreadful at the back. This term we've been much improved, but worse going forward, and Benteke's form has been the main reason, so vital is he to our play. That's neither a defence nor a criticism of Lambert - it could be seen as both. Who knows what's gone on with Benteke this year? But I do think it's accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Richard, interesting repetition of your reasons for supporting Lambert, which I think we have seen a few times before tbf. i was asked why I still supported him, I answered I didn't just post to get it off my chest. As to your question , haven't hot the foggiest and to be honest even if I did know I'm not sure posting would serve anyone at the club well in the current situation where we need a unity and no tittle tattle of purported unrest. But then I guess some are more interested in gossip and conspiracy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 just don't think the holier than you attitude is called for. Especially when the evidence suggests they're wrong. It's not a holier than you attitude though is it. I might be completely wrong. I am in no way a better or worse fan than either of you or any other VT poster. It is just my own considered opinion. If I was Paul Lambert I would say to all the moaners who all profess to know better, " Show us your ******* Medals!" Lambo is a great manager & I hope in time you both come round to my way of thinking. If I am wrong & you guy's prove accurate in your analysis & opinion I will be the first to acknowledge this & shake your hands. The bottom line though is don't be afraid to make mistakes & let Lambo make & learn from his. The man who never made a mistake never done anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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