Paul Lambert

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But how will it be worse? I don't see how it can be worse than losing and not scoring.

It can be worse because you'd hope that the games against Hull, Stoke, Newcastle, West Brom, Sunderland and Swansea will allows us a chance to improve. 

 

They're easier fixtures which is obviously an advantage and you'd hope Gil and Sinclair will make the impact we're all hoping they will make in those games.

 

And let's be honest, if it's not going to improve in those games then we're going down.

 

Protesting could be detrimental to the team and mean that improvement has no chance of happening. You say "it can't get worse", well it can get worse. Every game that our current form continues for is it getting worse. And if we protest and get on the team's back then there's every chance of them failing to improve results to the standard we need them to.

 

 

Gil looks a good player, but he is just one man playing in the same set up that has mustered 7 goals in half a season of football. That is an incredible ask, for him and Sinclair, who also looks reasonable, but has barely played in two seasons, to come and change our fortunes.

 

The movement in midfield and inability to get close to the front man is part of our problems and it stems from the lack of coaching they receive and the tactical ineptness of the manager to muster a plan or way of breaking a side down.

 

We have good fixtures away at West Brom, at home to Palace and Sunderland and we took two points and failed to score. We’ve taken 12 points and scored 7 goals since we beat Liverpool in half a season. That isn’t just relegation form, its bottom of the league and well adrift form.

 

The fact this isn’t isolated, but yet another horrible run of many over two and a half dismal seasons is indefensible.  Lambert should have gone several times over and its staggering that he is still here, with his ineptitude matched only by that of Lerner.

[pacbuddies]

Who said they were deemed acceptable by the same people? I thought they were foolish.

We were safe by the time the protests against McLeish took place were we not? Sensible.

The protests against McLeish took place before the season had started and continued sporadically throughout the season! Sensible?

[Zatman]

The McLeish protests were embarrassing as they had interviews with idiots saying we didnt like him because of where he came from and the media picked up on that

[BOF]

Why is it that protests against O'Leary were deemed acceptable and he was hounded out and we didn't get relegated and protests against McLeish were deemed acceptable and he was hounded out and we didn't get relegated yet protests against Lambert are not deemed acceptable as we might get relegated?

 

I am not waving a white flag because Lambert has it firmly tucked in his pocket every week.

In O'Leary's case, he had lost the dressing room and that was reflected in the fact that his 3 seasons were a continually downward spiral. So in the 3rd season where we barely stayed up with a squad capable of more, and his horrible attitude towards his players in post-match interviews, the whole place was against him. He had to go and everyone was pulling in the same direction on that.

In McLeish's case it was a perfect storm. Not only was he not wanted initially. Not only did he have a history of relegating sides. He continued to do at Villa what he was known for doing elsewhere and he also did it with a squad on much higher wages than Lambert. So, again, a squad on paper capable of far more than he got from them. Admittedly, in hindsight, McLeish's remit was exactly the same as Lambert's. To reduce the wage bill whilst keeping us up, but because no-one wanted him in the first place, he was always on a hiding to nothing.

Lambert inherited a bad situation from day one. He hasn't created one from what was a more preferable starting point. He has done mission impossible and continues to do so. Now the tide is clearly turning against him in terms of the percentage of fans who want him out, and they'll inevitably get their way in the end. But as for why not everyone thinks the same way. The above might go some way to explaining that. Basically it's all about context.

[Villarocker]

 

I honestly don't believe we have less chance of getting a result if we sing Lambert out for 90 minutes.

 

Then I think you've got serious issues grasping reality. It also points to you clearly not believing that supporters make a blind bit of difference to what happens in the pitch. So why bother at all?

This conversation is just going to go rounds and round in circles, I'm done.

 

 

If the players really like him and, want him to remain at the club, surely they would play out of their skins to save their manager - if the crowd started to chant for him to be sacked?

 

The pressure from those chants would be on Paul Lambert - not the players. They would just have to play to the best of their ability. If they don't, and he loses his job as a result, they then have to look at themselves and ask themselves if they cost someone they liked - and wanted - his job. Maybe then they will buck their ideas up and start to play better.

Edited February 6, 2015 by villarocker

[KHV]

 

 

I honestly don't believe we have less chance of getting a result if we sing Lambert out for 90 minutes.

 

Then I think you've got serious issues grasping reality. It also points to you clearly not believing that supporters make a blind bit of difference to what happens in the pitch. So why bother at all?

This conversation is just going to go rounds and round in circles, I'm done.

 

 

If the players really like him and, want him to remain at the club, surely they would play out of their skins to save their manager - if the crowd started to chant for him to be sacked?

 

The pressure from those chants would be on Paul Lambert - not the players. They would just have to play to the best of their ability. If they don't, and he loses his job as a result, they then have to look at themselves and ask themselves if they cost someone they liked - and wanted - his job. Maybe then they will buck their ideas up and start to play better.

 

I firmly believe the majority of players have stopped playing for him, you can see it in the body language and the way they apply themselves.

[Dante_Lockhart]

Still can't believe he got offered, and signed, a new contact at the start of the season.

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Why is it that protests against O'Leary were deemed acceptable and he was hounded out and we didn't get relegated and protests against McLeish were deemed acceptable and he was hounded out and we didn't get relegated yet protests against Lambert are not deemed acceptable as we might get relegated?

 

I am not waving a white flag because Lambert has it firmly tucked in his pocket every week.

Lambert inherited a bad situation from day one. He hasn't created one from what was a more preferable starting point. He has done mission impossible and continues to do so. Now the tide is clearly turning against him in terms of the percentage of fans who want him out, and they'll inevitably get their way in the end. But as for why not everyone thinks the same way. The above might go some way to explaining that. Basically it's all about context.

 

I think that is an exceptionally kind summary of Lambert. He certainly did inherit a poor squad and although he has had £46 million to spend, while not insignificant, its not enough for putting Aston Villa where Aston Villa should be. Lerner is certainly as incompetent as the manager in his stewardship.

 

But, and it’s a pretty big but, Lambert is actually doing less with the squad than they should be. 12-10^th or thereabouts is where this group of players should be, but here we are, yet again, fumbling around the relegation spots, only this time more than ever, we actually look like we will be relegated.

 

There is no defence to say that over the past 19 games, half a season of football, that this squad is capable of just 7 goals and 2 wins. Pathetic isn’t a strong enough description.

 

There is no defence for his repeated tactical ineptitude. Our lack of a plan is quite staggering. How do Aston Villa go about breaking other teams down? I go to every game and couldn’t tell you.

 

Momentum in sport is huge and we’ve got an avalanche worth sending us only one way. The hammering we took at Arsenal is the hammering we should have taken against Leicester, who without hyperbole could have beat us 5 or 6 they had that many nailed on chances. We created nothing and that’s not an isolated problem.

 

People talk about the next few games beyond Chelsea, Hull away, Stoke and West Brom at home, the same sort of games we had over Christmas where we failed to score a single goal. How can a manager who has been in the job for two and a half years find himself in a position where he has no system or style or play for attacking the opposition?

 

This is without referencing the number of cup humiliations, record defeats or the litany of negative records the manager has broken.

 

Any other club would have sacked Lambert four or five times over. His record is appalling and if he relegates us, which looks worryingly likely, he will rank as the worst manager in our history, surpassing Graham Turner and Billy McNeil.

[DCJonah]

I honestly don't believe we have less chance of getting a result if we sing Lambert out for 90 minutes.

Then I think you've got serious issues grasping reality. It also points to you clearly not believing that supporters make a blind bit of difference to what happens in the pitch. So why bother at all?

This conversation is just going to go rounds and round in circles, I'm done.

My grasp is fine thanks. If yours isn't I can tell you the facts regarding our last 8-6 games if you like. So if we don't win and don't score without protests I'm struggling to say how it will get worse than that if we did protest.

I believe supporters can make a slight difference in certain situations. In our a currently I think its absolutely laughable to think the fans chanting is the difference between what we're seeing and improvement.

[Stevo985]

 

 

 

12 points in 19 games.

No win in the last 8 games.

No goal in the last 6 games.

How can any protest be detrimental to the team? How can it possibly be worse than that?

Apparently anti Lambert chants might affect the teams ability to score and win a game.

Wait a minute........

 

But they could. It could squash any hopes we may have of any sort of improvement.

 

You're waving a white flag.

 

Why is it that protests against O'Leary were deemed acceptable and he was hounded out and we didn't get relegated and protests against McLeish were deemed acceptable and he was hounded out and we didn't get relegated yet protests against Lambert are not deemed acceptable as we might get relegated?

 

I am not waving a white flag because Lambert has it firmly tucked in his pocket every week.

 

Why are you asking me?

I've never said any of that.

 

But fwiw, I have never said that you SHOULDN'T protest. you can do whatever you like. You have every right to be upset.

 

I was merely sayign that in my opinion it would be detrimental to the team and that's not a very good idea right now/

[pacbuddies]

 

 

I honestly don't believe we have less chance of getting a result if we sing Lambert out for 90 minutes.

 

Then I think you've got serious issues grasping reality. It also points to you clearly not believing that supporters make a blind bit of difference to what happens in the pitch. So why bother at all?

This conversation is just going to go rounds and round in circles, I'm done.

My grasp is fine thanks. If yours isn't I can tell you the facts regarding our last 8-6 games if you like. So if we don't win and don't score without protests I'm struggling to say how it will get worse than that if we did protest.

I believe supporters can make a slight difference in certain situations. In our a currently I think its absolutely laughable to think the fans chanting is the difference between what we're seeing and improvement.

 

If the fans chanting positively has been responsible for the crap served up by Lambert over the last 2 and a half seasons then perhaps they had better shut up because it is having a detrimental affect on the players, performances and results.

[Stevo985]

 

All true but I do think considering the resources he has had to work with its not the worse squad in the world. I also think it's better than when he took over.

I just don't think he knows what needs to be done anymore. I kind of admire his desire to turn things around, but he really has pushed his luck. The first few seasons pundits and some fans would talk about how they admire Lerner for giving a young British manager a chance. But even most pundits and probably all fans are now think wtf is going on.

 

Now you seem to be trying to convince me that Lambert should be sacked.

You don't need to. We're in agreement there.

[BOF]

But, and it’s a pretty big but, Lambert is actually doing less with the squad than they should be. 12-10th or thereabouts is where this group of players should be, but here we are, yet again, fumbling around the relegation spots, only this time more than ever, we actually look like we will be relegated.

I hear people saying this a lot. But on what objective basis should we be 10th-12th? We have been forced to consistently buy players from either the lower divisions or the lesser divisions abroad.

If we take a critical look at our first team and where they actually came from

Guzan lesser league

Hutton, Cissokho from top leagues.

Clark - Villa youth

Vlaar lesser league

Sanchez Elche

Delph league one

Gil 8 apps for Valencia

Weimann - Villa youth (16yo from R.Vienna)

Gabby - Villa youth

Benteke lesser league

The point is, that's where we have to go shopping. Now that is in no way saying that these players aren't good enough to be Premier League players. I think they are. I'm just pointing out where Lambert has had to do his business and that this motley crew has no divine right to be higher at all just because some of us say so. I just wonder where the very subjective notion that we should be good enough for 10th place comes from when choosing to criticise Lambert's reign.  It always seems quite self-serving towards that person's argument at the time.

Any other club would have sacked Lambert four or five times over. His record is appalling and if he relegates us, which looks worryingly likely, he will rank as the worst manager in our history, surpassing Graham Turner and Billy McNeil.

I agree that he'd be gone in any other club. If a club ties your hands behind your back and then fires you a year later for doing 'a shit job' then that's their prerogative, but it doesn't make the board correct and it doesn't make the manager wrong. Eventually that club, using that model, are going to go down and it doesn't matter who is in charge. That's why I say he's continuing to do a mission impossible or should that be 'mission improbable' or 'mission inevitable'.

[Risso]

We were safe by the time the protests against McLeish took place were we not? Sensible.

 

No we weren't.  I was at the Wigan away game, and the abuse he got that day was horrific.  We also weren't remotely safe on the 24 April when we lost at home to Bolton, which was probably the nail in McLeish's coffin.  We ended the day 3 points clear of the relegation places with three games to go, so no, not safe at all.  The crowd let rip that day, and Lerner can't have failed to notice.  We were only really safe on the final day when our goal difference meant that results didn't really matter.

[DCJonah]

He has done mission impossible and continues to do so

If this was true he'd get lots more respect from fans and the media.

The fact is his 100 game record is right near the very top of abysmal periods.

[DCJonah]

The point is, that's where we have to go shopping. Now that is in no way saying that these players aren't good enough to be Premier League players. I think they are. I'm just pointing out where Lambert has had to do his business and that this motley crew has no divine right to be higher at all just because some of us say so

Seems a very strange way to judge what should be expected. Seems quite self serving to use where the player came from rather than judging the individual player and the squad put together on ability.

[Risso]

 

I hear people saying this a lot. But on what objective basis should we be 10th-12th? We have been forced to consistently buy players from either the lower divisions or the lesser divisions abroad.

If we take a critical look at our first team and where they actually came from

Guzan lesser league

Hutton, Cissokho from top leagues.

Clark - Villa youth

Vlaar lesser league

Sanchez Elche

Delph league one

Gil 8 apps for Valencia

Weimann - Villa youth (16yo from R.Vienna)

Gabby - Villa youth

Benteke lesser league 

 

 

That's a very one-eyed assessment.  Benteke, Sanchez and Vlaar are established international strikers, the fact that they came from "lesser leagues" doesn't reduce their ability.  Delph might have come from League 1, but that was a long time ago when he was bought as a promising youngster.  He's now an establised Premier League player and has been for several years.  There's also Cleverley (Man Utd), Kozak (Serie A), Given (Premier League) etc.  Bit of a non starter tbh, and you also need to look at where other teams got their players.

[sharkyvilla]

I think a lot of managers would have got us relegated. He's had a very tough job to do and I don't think he has done better than bang average and achieved minimum expectations except in the transfer market. But he now has IMO a very good first XI and experience on the bench so it is now time to shoot up the league or be gone.

[BOF]

We were safe by the time the protests against McLeish took place were we not? Sensible.

 

No we weren't.  I was at the Wigan away game, and the abuse he got that day was horrific.  We also weren't remotely safe on the 24 April when we lost at home to Bolton, which was probably the nail in McLeish's coffin.  We ended the day 3 points clear of the relegation places with three games to go, so no, not safe at all.  The crowd let rip that day, and Lerner can't have failed to notice.  We were only really safe on the final day when our goal difference meant that results didn't really matter.

Just looking at that and it's quite the collection of clubs that was below us that day. All have gone down since and only QPR have come back (and look like going again).

Pts Club

36 Aston Villa

34 QPR

34 Wigan

33 Bolton

31 Blackburn

23 Wolves

That's a very one-eyed assessment.  Benteke, Sanchez and Vlaar are established international strikers, the fact that they came from "lesser leagues" doesn't reduce their ability.  Delph might have come from League 1, but that was a long time ago when he was bought as a promising youngster.  He's now an establised Premier League player and has been for several years.  There's also Cleverley (Man Utd), Kozak (Serie A), Given (Premier League) etc.  Bit of a non starter tbh, and you also need to look at where other teams got their players.

The point I was making was not about their quality. It was about the shop we bought them in.

[DCJonah]

The point I was making was not about their quality. It was about the shop we bought them in.

But why would you choose that as the way to judge your expectations of what they should be able to do?