KHV Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think Benteke will come back to life I think Benteke regrets not forcing a move a signing a new contract personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I am sure many of you will remember this spoof video and how sad it is that it is still applicable, if not more so, so far down the line (we are still scoring nil!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2015 We are all rehashing each other as is the way with VT but anyway for the sake of "taking the pulse" my two pennies are. He is a good buyer of players and a poor coach. I could not believe he kept his job in the summer after the way we ended last season, everything about the team and his demeanor said to me he was a dead man walking. He has now assembled a reasonable side on not much money and he deserves credit for that. However he doesnt seem to have the ideas or generate the belief in order for us to truely kick on. That said I think we will be safe nonetheless, main reason being I think Benteke will come back to life at some point. He has missed a lot of chances in the last 10 or so games and that would have made a big points difference to us. I reckon he'll start putting a few away and we'll be safe enough to paper over the cracks for another year.That's a fair enough point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think where Lambert has gotten his players from means he deserves credit for the squad he's built. But like I've said elsewhere, that then means he loses credit for not getting them to perform as they should. I'm not so sure it's a top 10 squad. But it's certainly not a relegation scrap squad, imo. No improvement as the fixtures ease up is unacceptable. I can see us losing to Chelsea quite comfortably then its Hull away. If we get beaten away at Hull then we are in serious trouble because we wont get anything from the Stoke or Newcastle games thats for sure I don't think "that's for sure" at all. But I do agree that losing to Hull would be a disaster. That's the tipping point. I might be wrong but I dont think our recent record at St James Park is that great and they are miles better than us IMO, I dont think our record is that great against Stoke at Villa Park either and they seem to be better away from home under Hughes. Well newcastle are pretty shite under John Carver and we've already beaten Stoke once this season. You might be right. But I still think saying we're "sure" not to get any points out of those two games is pretty over the top. It's not like they are Chelsea and Man City Stoke have won 6 lost one and drawn one in their last 8 games, Im not confident on that one. Newcastle game is hard to tell, they lost to Southampton and Chelsea (most do) and walloped Hull away 3-0. The Hull result and performance is key for me, if we get turned over over there without scoring that will be just unbearable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 No argument there. And like I've said for a while, if Lambert will get sacked, it will be if we lose that Hull game (assuming we lose on the weekend). If we lose that game and he isn't sacked then I'll really start to worry as it will be verging on too late. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2015 The Hull result and performance is key for me, if we get turned over over there without scoring that will be just unbearable!If we go to Hull and lose without scoring then I think even I might be forced to add my voice to the Lambert out chorus. You just know they've already got that one circled on their calendar as an absolute must-win. Should be a humdinger because no doubt we have too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The Hull result and performance is key for me, if we get turned over over there without scoring that will be just unbearable! If we go to Hull and lose without scoring then I think even I might be forced to add my voice to the Lambert out chorus. You just know they've already got that one circled on their calendar as an absolute must-win. Should be a humdinger because no doubt we have too. Can 0-0s ever really be described as a humdinger?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. That is a really good spine. However Benteke has spent much of the last season and half injured, as has Okore, as has Delph, as has Vlaar. Then you add injuries to Kozak, Baker Clarke etc etc etc etc. It doesn't matter how good a spine you've got if they are on the treatment table and they financial restrictions mean the depth of the squad, as far as quality goes, is poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The Hull result and performance is key for me, if we get turned over over there without scoring that will be just unbearable! If we go to Hull and lose without scoring then I think even I might be forced to add my voice to the Lambert out chorus. You just know they've already got that one circled on their calendar as an absolute must-win. Should be a humdinger because no doubt we have too. I think it's essential we at least put in a good shift against Chelsea, I hope to God we dont go to Hull on the back of another thumping like the Arsenal game. I just have a horrible feeling Steve Bruce will do us over which adds to the woe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I agree that Benteke is absolutely key to our survival, if he doesnt start scoring we are down but i dont necessarily agree that he must at some point return to form because he isnt the only one who just does not look motivated in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? Compare those players with their equivolents at Swansea and Stoke and ask yourself is what they have any better? The answer is no. This squad isn't full of world beaters, but then you don't have to be particularly impressive to do ok in this league, such is the lack of quality. I base my assessment of Benteke, Vlaar, Okore, Delph, Sanchez Guzan on what I've seen them do at the Villa, internationally and weighed up against their opposition. Lambert has spent a lot more than Mark Hughes and Laudrop/Monk in his time here, I actually think he has spent and recruited by and large pretty well when spending £4 million level sums. Gil looks decent, I liked what I saw of Kozak too. But the tactics he deploys, the obvious lack of coaching we see, the inability to improve all feeds the poor results we see. I don't need bold or italics to say that losing 48 out of 99 games as Aston Villa manger is not acceptable. I don't need to use bold or italics to show that winning 2 games and scoring 7 goals is unacceptable. The results and the awful performances speak for themselves. The manager should have been sacked in May and should certainly be sacked now before the time to reverse our slide to the second division cannot be halted. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? You've changed your tune, back at the end of October you were giving him until Christmas and if no improvement then he should go. Now it's the end of March. Talk about moving the goalposts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? You've changed your tune, back at the end of October you were giving him until Christmas and if no improvement then he should go. Now it's the end of March. Talk about moving the goalposts! You are the master of reading what you want to read. He clearly said he thinks Lambert should go. He's talking about the end of March being when he'll panic about relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well said Ads. 2 wins out of 19 since he signed his new contract. Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans, that's dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 All true but I do think considering the resources he has had to work with its not the worse squad in the world. I also think it's better than when he took over. I just don't think he knows what needs to be done anymore. I kind of admire his desire to turn things around, but he really has pushed his luck. The first few seasons pundits and some fans would talk about how they admire Lerner for giving a young British manager a chance. But even most pundits and probably all fans are now think wtf is going on. Now you seem to be trying to convince me that Lambert should be sacked. You don't need to. We're in agreement there. Which I think more good can come from fans protesting than not. Lerner will have to act. I still think fans should protest with their feet though. Although I appreciate that's not fair for season ticket holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 He won't have to act thought will he? Chances are he won't even notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? You seem to be sticking up for Lambert by saying his signings aren't good so he's either tactically inefficient or he's not very good at tactics. Personally I think our squad is good. It's definitely as good if not better than half of the league yet we don't' see that reflected in results. Apart The first month of the season we have been the worst team in the league only our 10pts in the first 4 league games are keeping us afloat. I don't agree with protesting during the game but there hasn't been any so far and look at our record so I don't think it can do any harm seeing as it can't get much worse! If we had our team playing to its best we would easily be mid table the problem is we aren't somwe are struggling. For me if Lambert has bought crap and we are were we should be he can't do any better so he should go if he has bought well he isn't getting the best out of them and should go!! I don't think Chelsea at home will make a difference but leaving it until the end of March is too late! We have 4 games left in Feburary after tomorrow which we have to get results in if we can get 4/6 pts and go through to the next round I'll give him to the end of the season if not he has to go before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Compare those players with their equivolents at Swansea and Stoke and ask yourself is what they have any better? The answer is no. This squad isn't full of world beaters, but then you don't have to be particularly impressive to do ok in this league, such is the lack of quality. I base my assessment of Benteke, Vlaar, Okore, Delph, Sanchez Guzan on what I've seen them do at the Villa, internationally and weighed up against their opposition. Lambert has spent a lot more than Mark Hughes and Laudrop/Monk in his time here, I actually think he has spent and recruited by and large pretty well when spending £4 million level sums. Gil looks decent, I liked what I saw of Kozak too. But the tactics he deploys, the obvious lack of coaching we see, the inability to improve all feeds the poor results we see. I don't need bold or italics to say that losing 48 out of 99 games as Aston Villa manger is not acceptable. I don't need to use bold or italics to show that winning 2 games and scoring 7 goals is unacceptable. The results and the awful performances speak for themselves. The manager should have been sacked in May and should certainly be sacked now before the time to reverse our slide to the second division cannot be halted. What are you asking r.e: their equivalents? Our players haven't done anything! Stoke have one of the best keepers in the league (Begovic) and Swansea have had Vorm and Fabianski - both probably comparable if-not-better-than Guzan. Both Stoke and Swansea have also had 2 of the best defences over the past few years; Stoke infamous for it; and Swansea with Williams in particular. Swansea have recently sold Bony to Man City for £28m. Crouch/Walters have been scoring at this level consistently for years. The only place in which I'd conceed "defeat" is that Stoke's midfield doesn't seem that great. These teams are currently 9th and 10th in the league with a better side (Everton) behind them. Again, nothing to suggest that we should be "at least 10th". I don't need bold or italics to know that we're currently not good enough either. As I said, Lambert's time is up. However, I also don't expect something that simply isn't where Aston Villa are right now. We could be 10th; we similarly could be 18th. The teams are so tightly matched in this area of the table. We're not as good as Stoke or Swansea. Please, don't kid yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. What are they good players based on? Benteke has scored goals (for the same manager) in one season - next to sod all else. Delph has played for Villa and produced next to nothing. Sanchez wasn't even heard of until the World Cup; same as Vlaar really (a Dutch guy I know ridicules him from his time in Holland; I've always said he's wrong). Okore has this season come back from a bad injury - having previously played in Denmark. Guzan now looks a good keeper... one that was released by Aston Villa. In short, there's absolutely no basis for this "we should be at least 10th/12th" message that people are saying. None at all. None of these players have achieved this in the Premier League. None. I just don't understand where people are getting this "should be at least 10th" stuff from. I think the time has come for Lambert to go, but some of the chat on here is as if we're bottom of the Premier League by a significant margin with no hope of getting out. We haven't been in the relegation zone all season - and unless Hull beat Man City away, we won't be in there having played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool twice. If we don't see an upturn at all by the end of March then I'll join in with this panic. Until then, though....? Hilarious that people think there is "no harm" in protesting and creating an even more toxic atmosphere by the way. How can that even be the case? You've changed your tune, back at the end of October you were giving him until Christmas and if no improvement then he should go. Now it's the end of March. Talk about moving the goalposts! Was it the "I think the time has come for Lambert go" that you've had particular trouble with here? I've made it bold and in large for you, just in case you missed it. **** off with your personal vendetta. It's **** tiring. Edited February 6, 2015 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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