TrentVilla Posted June 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2014 Can a player on a free decline in value? We had to pay Brett Holman to leave after signing him on a free. So I guess the answer would be yes? So his value when he left was zero, his contract doesn't factor in his value. I didn't say you couldn't lose money on a Bosman or that they don't cost anything, but you can't sign a player on a Bosman and then say his value has dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Doesn't constitute most games though does it. He played as much as Holt did in the league He's played more than twice the minutes Holt played. What's your point anyway? Werent you the one who raised the point that he started most games for Valencia? When he actually didn't? He started most games when he was fit. He had a thigh strain that kept him out for a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Can a player on a free decline in value? We had to pay Brett Holman to leave after signing him on a free. So I guess the answer would be yes? So his value when he left was zero, his contract doesn't factor in his value. I didn't say you couldn't lose money on a Bosman or that they don't cost anything, but you can't sign a player on a Bosman and then say his value has dropped. You can, donkeys like that always need paying off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2014 Can a player on a free decline in value? We had to pay Brett Holman to leave after signing him on a free. So I guess the answer would be yes? So his value when he left was zero, his contract doesn't factor in his value. I didn't say you couldn't lose money on a Bosman or that they don't cost anything, but you can't sign a player on a Bosman and then say his value has dropped. You can, donkeys like that always need paying off. That is the same point as previously, its still wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 6'3", 29 year old Swiss international defender previously at Arsenal, AC Milan and Valencia as back-up to Vlaar and Okore on a free... Can't see anything to complain about here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It's a bit of a weird debate to have about a player that does not cost you a transfer fee not being able to decline in value as it is not really in the spirit of the point I was making (which I have clarified earlier). Trent can definitely get one internet point from me for services to pedantry, but all i was trying to say is that Senderos is a bit pants and he is liable to be as pants if not slightly worse by the time we are shot of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Thing is, Vlaar and Okore are obviously earmarked for the starting slots as CB's. As we're not exactly in a position to be spending much, we're not going to have much of a pull when attracting players to be back-up. So, Senderos or Baker is the only pertinent question in my mind. I know which I'd chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It's a bit of a weird debate to have about a player that does not cost you a transfer fee not being able to decline in value as it is not really in the spirit of the point I was making (which I have clarified earlier). Trent can definitely get one internet point from me for services to pedantry, but all i was trying to say is that Senderos is a bit pants and he is liable to be as pants if not slightly worse by the time we are shot of him. Personally thought your meaning was quite clear, and I totally agree. He's garbage, and so is Hangeland. At least Hangeland used to be good. Senderos has never been good enough in the Prem. We won't sell him for a fee, and he won't improve the first team. Garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It's a bit of a weird debate to have about a player that does not cost you a transfer fee not being able to decline in value as it is not really in the spirit of the point I was making (which I have clarified earlier). Trent can definitely get one internet point from me for services to pedantry, but all i was trying to say is that Senderos is a bit pants and he is liable to be as pants if not slightly worse by the time we are shot of him. Personally thought your meaning was quite clear, and I totally agree. He's garbage, and so is Hangeland. At least Hangeland used to be good. Senderos has never been good enough in the Prem. We won't sell him for a fee, and he won't improve the first team. Garbage. You don't get 84 appearances and a contract extension for Arsenal by being garbage. Clark and Baker on current showing would never play for a top 4 team. Senderos will simply be back-up to Vlaar and Okore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juteface Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I'd prefer Hangeland over Senderos if we're going down the route of out of contract defenders. Like others say he's most likely backup and I'm not that bothered. I'd prefer to have adequite backup with some experience than none as injuries in defence last year screwed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It's a bit of a weird debate to have about a player that does not cost you a transfer fee not being able to decline in value as it is not really in the spirit of the point I was making (which I have clarified earlier). Trent can definitely get one internet point from me for services to pedantry, but all i was trying to say is that Senderos is a bit pants and he is liable to be as pants if not slightly worse by the time we are shot of him. Personally thought your meaning was quite clear, and I totally agree. He's garbage, and so is Hangeland. At least Hangeland used to be good. Senderos has never been good enough in the Prem. We won't sell him for a fee, and he won't improve the first team. Garbage. You don't get 84 appearances and a contract extension for Arsenal by being garbage. Clark and Baker on current showing would never play for a top 4 team. Senderos will simply be back-up to Vlaar and Okore. Bendtner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) The problem is though that Vlaar won't play a full season for us and we will have to rely on our second string centre backs at some stage in the season. Okore is also coming back from a major injury and will need time to adjust even if there is no recurrence of the injury. We therefore desperately need a decent 3rd choice centre back and Senderos wouldn't fill me with a lot of confidence. Edited June 4, 2014 by shaggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It's a bit of a weird debate to have about a player that does not cost you a transfer fee not being able to decline in value as it is not really in the spirit of the point I was making (which I have clarified earlier). Trent can definitely get one internet point from me for services to pedantry, but all i was trying to say is that Senderos is a bit pants and he is liable to be as pants if not slightly worse by the time we are shot of him. Personally thought your meaning was quite clear, and I totally agree. He's garbage, and so is Hangeland. At least Hangeland used to be good. Senderos has never been good enough in the Prem. We won't sell him for a fee, and he won't improve the first team. Garbage. You don't get 84 appearances and a contract extension for Arsenal by being garbage. Clark and Baker on current showing would never play for a top 4 team. Senderos will simply be back-up to Vlaar and Okore. Bendtner? Better than Helenius. Which is exactly the point. He's better than the back-up we have, and is free. Someone we can bring in whilst we're in limbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It's a bit of a weird debate to have about a player that does not cost you a transfer fee not being able to decline in value as it is not really in the spirit of the point I was making (which I have clarified earlier). Trent can definitely get one internet point from me for services to pedantry, but all i was trying to say is that Senderos is a bit pants and he is liable to be as pants if not slightly worse by the time we are shot of him. Personally thought your meaning was quite clear, and I totally agree. He's garbage, and so is Hangeland. At least Hangeland used to be good. Senderos has never been good enough in the Prem. We won't sell him for a fee, and he won't improve the first team. Garbage. You don't get 84 appearances and a contract extension for Arsenal by being garbage. Clark and Baker on current showing would never play for a top 4 team. Senderos will simply be back-up to Vlaar and Okore. Bendtner? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The problem is though that Vlaar won't play a full season for us and we will have to rely on our second string full backs at some stage in the season. Okore is also coming back from a major injury and will need time to adjust even if there is no recurrence of the injury. We therefore desperately need a decent 3rd choice centre back and Senderos wouldn't fill me with a lot of confidence. We're not exactly able to attract many good players whilst we're in ownership limbo. I'm not sure why people think we have many options when adding to the squad at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Who cares who Villa get to sit on the bench on the cheap as a fifth choice central defender?? In my opinion, we don't need anyone, but the moaners who wanted Lambert to buy an extra central defender in January, are suddenly not happy about this one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It's a bit of a weird debate to have about a player that does not cost you a transfer fee not being able to decline in value as it is not really in the spirit of the point I was making (which I have clarified earlier). Trent can definitely get one internet point from me for services to pedantry, but all i was trying to say is that Senderos is a bit pants and he is liable to be as pants if not slightly worse by the time we are shot of him. Personally thought your meaning was quite clear, and I totally agree. He's garbage, and so is Hangeland. At least Hangeland used to be good. Senderos has never been good enough in the Prem. We won't sell him for a fee, and he won't improve the first team. Garbage. You don't get 84 appearances and a contract extension for Arsenal by being garbage. Clark and Baker on current showing would never play for a top 4 team. Senderos will simply be back-up to Vlaar and Okore. Bendtner? Exactly. Would you rather have Helenius and Bowery as back-up, or Bendtner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The problem is though that Vlaar won't play a full season for us and we will have to rely on our second string full backs at some stage in the season. Okore is also coming back from a major injury and will need time to adjust even if there is no recurrence of the injury. We therefore desperately need a decent 3rd choice centre back and Senderos wouldn't fill me with a lot of confidence. We're not exactly able to attract many good players whilst we're in ownership limbo. I'm not sure why people think we have many options when adding to the squad at this stage. Yes mate that's the most frustrating thing of all and you are right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) The problem is though that Vlaar won't play a full season for us and we will have to rely on our second string full backs at some stage in the season. Okore is also coming back from a major injury and will need time to adjust even if there is no recurrence of the injury. We therefore desperately need a decent 3rd choice centre back and Senderos wouldn't fill me with a lot of confidence. We're not exactly able to attract many good players whilst we're in ownership limbo. I'm not sure why people think we have many options when adding to the squad at this stage. Yes mate that's the most frustrating thing of all and you are right. I think we all need to manage our expectations in the short-term. I hope I'm pleasently surprised, but additions to the starting XI won't be in the offing, IMO. If people like Senderos can come in and improve our back-up options without costing too much, then I see it as good business given our circumstances. Edited June 5, 2014 by StanBalaban 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2014 It's a bit of a weird debate to have about a player that does not cost you a transfer fee not being able to decline in value as it is not really in the spirit of the point I was making (which I have clarified earlier). Trent can definitely get one internet point from me for services to pedantry, but all i was trying to say is that Senderos is a bit pants and he is liable to be as pants if not slightly worse by the time we are shot of him. Thanks. I'd give you a point in return for dubious maths but I fear by the time I gave you the point it would in fact be worth -2. It isn't about being pedantic, I was trying to illustrate how your logic on why he wouldn't be a good signing based on future value was flawed. Not rating him as a player is totally different, I can't say I saw him play in person last season so I'm withholding judgement a little. But given his career, the clubs he has played for and his international record I'd hazard a guess he is probably better than many give him credit for. Oh and most players that join a club at 29 will be worse by the time they leave, its not really a reason not to sign them. From memory I think Martin Laursen was 29 when he joined us, its not a bad age for a CB. (I'm not saying Senderos is as good before people jump to that conclusion) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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