Jose Mourinho

[villa89]

 

Mourinho's Madrid scored an average of 109 league goals, including 121 in a season - when was the last time you saw a team score like that? He can clearly play attacking and with stars. His biggest strength is that he isn't naive. Obviously every coach makes mistakes, but he's not going to fool himself into thinking he can outplay a side with better players than his, but him being such a great tactician allows him to find ways to beat teams in others ways.

 

 

 

Virtually any manager could have scored alot of goals with that Madrid team. Athletico currently have a Goal Difference of +42, Barca +43 and Real +39 and they'll all score over 100 goals this season. It tells you everything you need to know about La liga rather than about the managers. Mourinho has 1 way to play, 1 system that never changes at any club he has been at. You can't blame him for not changing given the success he's had but he doesn't play any "Attacking" football. He plays 4-5-1, with a solid defensive structure and then counter attacks to get the majority of the goals. SAme at porto, same at inter, same at Madrid and same at Chelsea (twice). There's a reason he couldn't accomodate Juan Mata, who was chelsea's best player, in his team.

Edited February 6, 2014 by villa89

[kurtsimonw]

 

 

Mourinho's Madrid scored an average of 109 league goals, including 121 in a season - when was the last time you saw a team score like that? He can clearly play attacking and with stars. His biggest strength is that he isn't naive. Obviously every coach makes mistakes, but he's not going to fool himself into thinking he can outplay a side with better players than his, but him being such a great tactician allows him to find ways to beat teams in others ways.

 

 

 

Virtually any manager could have scored alot of goals with that Madrid team. Athletico currently have a Goal Difference of +42, Barca +43 and Real +39 and they'll all score over 100 goals this season. It tells you everything you need to know about La liga rather than about the managers. Mourinho has 1 way to play, 1 system that never changes at any club he has been at. You can't blame him for not changing given the success he's had but he doesn't play any "Attacking" football. He plays 4-5-1, with a solid defensive structure and then counter attacks to get the majority of the goals. SAme at porto, same at inter, same at Madrid and same at Chelsea (twice). There's a reason he couldn't accomodate Juan Mata, who was chelsea's best player, in his team.

 

I'd say the Braca side was better and don't score that many.121 league goals in a season is a ridiculous achievement and I can't recall anyone scoring that many, to say "any manager" could do it is a bit unfair.

 

He didn't play 4-5-1 only at Inter. In fact in the CL winning year he moved to a very attacking 4-2-1-3 with Sneijder behind a front 3 of Pandev/Milito/Eto'o. Accomodating Mata wouldn't have been a whole lot different than being able to put these 4 into the same side, fact he he obviously just doesn't like Mata for whatever s reason.

[AVFCforever1991]

The same season Madrid scored 121 goals, Barca scored 114, so not much between them tbh..

Edited February 6, 2014 by AVFCforever1991

[Kwan]

Talk about going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

Isn't it quite obvious that their squad is a small fortune and all the rationale that goes with it...even with a 5million pound centre half, oh sorry for the irony.....well that's what we got anyway.

The idea of the post was not to be smart, but to highlight an alternative approach for us, not Chelsea, that might, might, might help us not concede in the last 20minutes of a game and lose when we are on top and protect the centre halves.

I do not have the answers and neither does anyone else, but a mere suggestion, was all it was, seems in some quarters the failure to sign players has changed the mood.

May I remind some that playing a big no9 was a traditional approach to the striker position, but then messi came along and the small elusive striker was becoming the latest trend, Suarez us another example....that does not mean other clubs with players not as good as messi can't at least try it.

Keep an open mind, it be surprising what you might find.

We have actually been very solid in terms of not conceding goals late in games and when we're ahead this season. That hasn't been the problem.

The problem is we don't score, we set up too defensively to get into the game, and we usually get done in by two quick goals in a row, a matter of concentration over formation.

[TRO]

 

Talk about going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

Isn't it quite obvious that their squad is a small fortune and all the rationale that goes with it...even with a 5million pound centre half, oh sorry for the irony.....well that's what we got anyway.

The idea of the post was not to be smart, but to highlight an alternative approach for us, not Chelsea, that might, might, might help us not concede in the last 20minutes of a game and lose when we are on top and protect the centre halves.

I do not have the answers and neither does anyone else, but a mere suggestion, was all it was, seems in some quarters the failure to sign players has changed the mood.

May I remind some that playing a big no9 was a traditional approach to the striker position, but then messi came along and the small elusive striker was becoming the latest trend, Suarez us another example....that does not mean other clubs with players not as good as messi can't at least try it.

Keep an open mind, it be surprising what you might find.

We have actually been very solid in terms of not conceding goals late in games and when we're ahead this season. That hasn't been the problem.

The problem is we don't score, we set up too defensively to get into the game, and we usually get done in by two quick goals in a row, a matter of concentration over formation.

 

 

very solid in relation to what, what we produced last year?, yea on that basis accepted... but lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. We are far from comfortable in defence.

 

I went to the Fulham game and apart from some poor decisions from the officials we was wide open, I went to the Albion game at home and it could have gone either way, but we still conceded 3 goals at home, the Everton game we have mentioned but it was still ours to lose and theirs to win....so no, I don't share your view that we have more important things to consider (as important yes)when a better manager than ours faces a similar situation in as much as he felt Man city had a better team than him and set his up to negate that....(and on this occasion he succeeded) Maybe its worth noting.

 

I just felt that there was enough going on in that game from Chelsea that we could maybe learn from.....of course they have a better team than us , before anyone else states the obvious, but we can still learn and apply some of those principles....if it don't work, at least we have tried.

 

Ps  I actually feel we are at our most vulnerable just after we have scored, so not sure where you get your first line from.

Edited February 7, 2014 by TRO

[TRO]

 

 

Mourinho's Madrid scored an average of 109 league goals, including 121 in a season - when was the last time you saw a team score like that? He can clearly play attacking and with stars. His biggest strength is that he isn't naive. Obviously every coach makes mistakes, but he's not going to fool himself into thinking he can outplay a side with better players than his, but him being such a great tactician allows him to find ways to beat teams in others ways.

 

 

 

Virtually any manager could have scored alot of goals with that Madrid team. Athletico currently have a Goal Difference of +42, Barca +43 and Real +39 and they'll all score over 100 goals this season. It tells you everything you need to know about La liga rather than about the managers. Mourinho has 1 way to play, 1 system that never changes at any club he has been at. You can't blame him for not changing given the success he's had but he doesn't play any "Attacking" football. He plays 4-5-1, with a solid defensive structure and then counter attacks to get the majority of the goals. SAme at porto, same at inter, same at Madrid and same at Chelsea (twice). There's a reason he couldn't accomodate Juan Mata, who was chelsea's best player, in his team.

 

No team can play the one way all the time, because circumstances change from game to game and even during a game....other teams change all the time and you have to counter that to be in competition. A lot depends on so many factors like how the landscape of the game is forming and how to make the most of it. You also play to your strengths depending on the quality and attributes of your players...there are so many things

Edited February 6, 2014 by TRO

[TRO]

 

 

Talk about going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

Isn't it quite obvious that their squad is a small fortune and all the rationale that goes with it...even with a 5million pound centre half, oh sorry for the irony.....well that's what we got anyway.

The idea of the post was not to be smart, but to highlight an alternative approach for us, not Chelsea, that might, might, might help us not concede in the last 20minutes of a game and lose when we are on top and protect the centre halves.

I do not have the answers and neither does anyone else, but a mere suggestion, was all it was, seems in some quarters the failure to sign players has changed the mood.

May I remind some that playing a big no9 was a traditional approach to the striker position, but then messi came along and the small elusive striker was becoming the latest trend, Suarez us another example....that does not mean other clubs with players not as good as messi can't at least try it.

Keep an open mind, it be surprising what you might find.

We have actually been very solid in terms of not conceding goals late in games and when we're ahead this season. That hasn't been the problem.

The problem is we don't score, we set up too defensively to get into the game, and we usually get done in by two quick goals in a row, a matter of concentration over formation.

 

 

very solid in relation to what, what we produced last year?, yea on that basis accepted... but lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. We are far from comfortable in defence.

 

I went to the Fulham game and apart from some poor decisions from the officials we was wide open, I went to the Albion game at home and it could have gone either way, but will still conceded 3 goals at home, the Everton game we have mentioned but it was still ours to lose and theirs to win....so no, I don't share your view that we have more important things to consider (as important yes)when a better manager than ours faces a similar situation in as much as he felt Man city had a better team than him and set his up the negate that....and on this occasion he succeeded. 

 

I just felt that there was enough going on in that game from Chelsea that we could maybe learn from.....of course they have a better team than us , before anyone else states the obvious, but we can still learn and apply some of those principles....if it don't work, at least we have tried.

 

Ps  I actually feel we are at our most vulnerable just after we have scored, so not sure where you get your first line from.

 

PPS There is another point that can get overlooked, as someone else pointed out about counter attacking....playing 2 DMs can offer a reversed psychology, where it gives those offensive players, where there is now fewer more comfort to strut their stuff and alleviate any defensive work they thought they had to do.....sometimes opposites have the effect.

[TRO]

It's just a 4231. Not exactly breakthrough stuff.

The difference is Mourinho's ability to micromanage every detail and have his players follow through on his precise orders.

Oh and his two DMs were over 20 Mill each.

 

The only thing is you have to KNOW what those details are that are so important to manage. The one DM was 1.5 mill first time around and i did say in my Original post that Liverpool and us used it in successful periods....despite all that didn't stop him from trying this system, he didn't think it was worth dismissing.

Edited February 7, 2014 by TRO

[Kwan]

Talk about going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

Isn't it quite obvious that their squad is a small fortune and all the rationale that goes with it...even with a 5million pound centre half, oh sorry for the irony.....well that's what we got anyway.

The idea of the post was not to be smart, but to highlight an alternative approach for us, not Chelsea, that might, might, might help us not concede in the last 20minutes of a game and lose when we are on top and protect the centre halves.

I do not have the answers and neither does anyone else, but a mere suggestion, was all it was, seems in some quarters the failure to sign players has changed the mood.

May I remind some that playing a big no9 was a traditional approach to the striker position, but then messi came along and the small elusive striker was becoming the latest trend, Suarez us another example....that does not mean other clubs with players not as good as messi can't at least try it.

Keep an open mind, it be surprising what you might find.

We have actually been very solid in terms of not conceding goals late in games and when we're ahead this season. That hasn't been the problem.

The problem is we don't score, we set up too defensively to get into the game, and we usually get done in by two quick goals in a row, a matter of concentration over formation.

very solid in relation to what, what we produced last year?, yea on that basis accepted... but lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. We are far from comfortable in defence.

I went to the Fulham game and apart from some poor decisions from the officials we was wide open, I went to the Albion game at home and it could have gone either way, but will still conceded 3 goals at home, the Everton game we have mentioned but it was still ours to lose and theirs to win....so no, I don't share your view that we have more important things to consider (as important yes)when a better manager than ours faces a similar situation in as much as he felt Man city had a better team than him and set his up to negate that....(and on this occasion he succeeded) Maybe its worth noting.

I just felt that there was enough going on in that game from Chelsea that we could maybe learn from.....of course they have a better team than us , before anyone else states the obvious, but we can still learn and apply some of those principles....if it don't work, at least we have tried.

Ps I actually feel we are at our most vulnerable just after we have scored, so not sure where you get your first line from.

Not only in terms of last year but against the whole league as well. Prior to the everton game I think we were near top of the league in terms of not dropping points from a winning position. Indeed, I don't remember a game besides everton where we were winning and lost. Drew maybe but not loss.

Point being that Mourinho has a deep bench and millions to work from whilst Lambert has to cobble together what we can.

If you praise Mourinho for a one off game then you can similarly say that Lambert is a "genius" for deploying a diamond against an in form Liverpool.

Mourinho is one of the best managers in the world but he has far more options and players to work with than Lambert

[TRO]

 

 

 

Talk about going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

Isn't it quite obvious that their squad is a small fortune and all the rationale that goes with it...even with a 5million pound centre half, oh sorry for the irony.....well that's what we got anyway.

The idea of the post was not to be smart, but to highlight an alternative approach for us, not Chelsea, that might, might, might help us not concede in the last 20minutes of a game and lose when we are on top and protect the centre halves.

I do not have the answers and neither does anyone else, but a mere suggestion, was all it was, seems in some quarters the failure to sign players has changed the mood.

May I remind some that playing a big no9 was a traditional approach to the striker position, but then messi came along and the small elusive striker was becoming the latest trend, Suarez us another example....that does not mean other clubs with players not as good as messi can't at least try it.

Keep an open mind, it be surprising what you might find.

We have actually been very solid in terms of not conceding goals late in games and when we're ahead this season. That hasn't been the problem.

The problem is we don't score, we set up too defensively to get into the game, and we usually get done in by two quick goals in a row, a matter of concentration over formation.

very solid in relation to what, what we produced last year?, yea on that basis accepted... but lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. We are far from comfortable in defence.

I went to the Fulham game and apart from some poor decisions from the officials we was wide open, I went to the Albion game at home and it could have gone either way, but will still conceded 3 goals at home, the Everton game we have mentioned but it was still ours to lose and theirs to win....so no, I don't share your view that we have more important things to consider (as important yes)when a better manager than ours faces a similar situation in as much as he felt Man city had a better team than him and set his up to negate that....(and on this occasion he succeeded) Maybe its worth noting.

I just felt that there was enough going on in that game from Chelsea that we could maybe learn from.....of course they have a better team than us , before anyone else states the obvious, but we can still learn and apply some of those principles....if it don't work, at least we have tried.

Ps I actually feel we are at our most vulnerable just after we have scored, so not sure where you get your first line from.

Not only in terms of last year but against the whole league as well. Prior to the everton game I think we were near top of the league in terms of not dropping points from a winning position. Indeed, I don't remember a game besides everton where we were winning and lost. Drew maybe but not loss.

Point being that Mourinho has a deep bench and millions to work from whilst Lambert has to cobble together what we can.

If you praise Mourinho for a one off game then you can similarly say that Lambert is a "genius" for deploying a diamond against an in form Liverpool.

Mourinho is one of the best managers in the world but he has far more options and players to work with than Lambert

 

 

He wasn't the Best Manager in the World when he won the Euro Cup with Porto

 

you are missing my point.

 

My point is not comparing the 2 managers, but picking a liitle teeny weeny bit of a revered managers actions and maybe considering it for our circumstances. He was also playing Man city so that negates your argument of bench full of millions, because so have they....so why didn't he employ a diamond against a good Everton side

 

not being rude but you are reading far too much in to all the jewels and diamonds Mourinho Has and not looking and appreciating some of his principles and basics, Plus it wasn't a swipe at PL, but a suggestion.

 

I could write a complete "send up" of Mourinho and Ferguson and Hiddinck, but that wasn't my point.

 

just as an add on - Managers like Jose Mourinho have earn't the right to spend money..... and he does a pretty good job of that too, doesn't always get it right, but who does.

 

Our man has all of that phase to prove.

Edited February 6, 2014 by TRO

[AndyM3000]

Him winning the treble with Inter was unbelievable, that team wasn't that good when you look at it. I doubt we will see an Italian team in the CL final in the next 5-6 years.

 

I love the bloke though, very funny, always wins the mind games and seems know exactly how to rattle people. 

[Papillon]

Mourinho is a brilliant manager and a supreme tactician, and it's quite funny when members on a message forum talks him down for not bringing enough attacking football. Newsflash, football is about winning the game, winning games over a season and scoring one more goal than the other team to get the maximum points. The rest is just details. Sure the best combination is to score lots of goals each weekend and still win everything, but that is incredibly hard and it can also lead to not having a plan B when the going really gets tough. When Mourinho won the Champions League with both Porto and Internazionale it was down to his tactics, his enormous detail to both scoring goals and shutting teams out. Sure there is a lot of luck and coincidence in one single game like a final, like John Terry's missed penalty, but Mourinho is a magician when it comes to sounding out important differences between his team and the other. I know Mourinho was not the manager when Terry missed that penalty or when Chelsea in fact did win the Champions League, but they did it in his fashion. When you play a superior team you don't beat them by playing like they do, you try to be better than their offense by being better defensively. Nothing wrong with that. Just plain smart.

 

People talk about Arsenal and their invincible team, but they were not the best. Not losing a single game does not better Chelsea's season in 2004/2005 when they lost two games. In that season they racked up 95 points which is the highest ever and thus better than Arsenal, scoring 72 goals and letting in 15. That's right, 15 goals over the course of one season - the same amount we got in three games last season! Clubs will beat Arsenal's Invincibles several times over in terms of points, but no team will ever beat that record of 15 goals in 38 games. Thinking about it now, I don't understand how they could pull it off. It doesn't matter if you have better players than the others, because over so many games you will let in goals here and there because of lapses in concentration. That record shows just how dedicated Mourinho is to details and things managers like Lambert and Poyet would never even understand. Looking at their last results of that season, when the title was already sealed, they let in quite a few goals at the end so the record could even have been better. 25 clean sheets in total. You see it again this season, Mourinho returns to a completely different team set up by AVB and without some types he would have liked, but after 24 games he is right where he wants to be 2 points behind the leader and they have let in the fewest amount of goals.

[TRO]

Mourinho is a brilliant manager and a supreme tactician, and it's quite funny when members on a message forum talks him down for not bringing enough attacking football. Newsflash, football is about winning the game, winning games over a season and scoring one more goal than the other team to get the maximum points. The rest is just details. Sure the best combination is to score lots of goals each weekend and still win everything, but that is incredibly hard and it can also lead to not having a plan B when the going really gets tough. When Mourinho won the Champions League with both Porto and Internazionale it was down to his tactics, his enormous detail to both scoring goals and shutting teams out. Sure there is a lot of luck and coincidence in one single game like a final, like John Terry's missed penalty, but Mourinho is a magician when it comes to sounding out important differences between his team and the other. I know Mourinho was not the manager when Terry missed that penalty or when Chelsea in fact did win the Champions League, but they did it in his fashion. When you play a superior team you don't beat them by playing like they do, you try to be better than their offense by being better defensively. Nothing wrong with that. Just plain smart.

 

People talk about Arsenal and their invincible team, but they were not the best. Not losing a single game does not better Chelsea's season in 2004/2005 when they lost two games. In that season they racked up 95 points which is the highest ever and thus better than Arsenal, scoring 72 goals and letting in 15. That's right, 15 goals over the course of one season - the same amount we got in three games last season! Clubs will beat Arsenal's Invincibles several times over in terms of points, but no team will ever beat that record of 15 goals in 38 games. Thinking about it now, I don't understand how they could pull it off. It doesn't matter if you have better players than the others, because over so many games you will let in goals here and there because of lapses in concentration. That record shows just how dedicated Mourinho is to details and things managers like Lambert and Poyet would never even understand. Looking at their last results of that season, when the title was already sealed, they let in quite a few goals at the end so the record could even have been better. 25 clean sheets in total. You see it again this season, Mourinho returns to a completely different team set up by AVB and without some types he would have liked, but after 24 games he is right where he wants to be 2 points behind the leader and they have let in the fewest amount of goals.

 very good rendition....not a bad guy to learn from ay!....is all what i was saying in my OP

[Rovers13]

Tro you did make a good point in the OP. Very few teams play with two guys that naturally stay deep or are dms as opposed to one guy at least who runs forward, and when you have Chelsea's front four you can afford that.

[Ghost]

http://youtu.be/zeNLyZu8jrY

[mikeyp102]

Mourinho is a very astute manager. When he returned to Chelsea he knew they had a lot of attacking players so he played an attacking formation. However over the first set of games they were stopping points as the strikers were missing numerous chances. So he adapted his formation to keep it tight at the back, meaning that they would only need to score 1 per game to get the victory. Now come the transfer window most people (myself included) thought that he would go and sign a striker, but instead his main transfer was for a big strong holding midfielder to tighten the ship even more. Meaning that he can deploy the tactics against the bigger sides like he did against a free scoring city. Now who knows whether they would have signed falcao if he hadnt got injured, but I still think matic would've been signed anyway and he would have been more important to the team.

Mourinho also knows how to get the best out of his flair players, look how ronaldo flourished under him. Hazard is starting to improve and it would be no surprise if in the next couple of yrs he is up there in world football with the likes of ribery (let's be honest ronaldo and messi are on another level than anyone else). Yes he has sold mata who is a fantastic player, but he won't be missed by Chelsea

[TRO]

 

Mourinho is a brilliant manager and a supreme tactician, and it's quite funny when members on a message forum talks him down for not bringing enough attacking football. Newsflash, football is about winning the game, winning games over a season and scoring one more goal than the other team to get the maximum points. The rest is just details. Sure the best combination is to score lots of goals each weekend and still win everything, but that is incredibly hard and it can also lead to not having a plan B when the going really gets tough. When Mourinho won the Champions League with both Porto and Internazionale it was down to his tactics, his enormous detail to both scoring goals and shutting teams out. Sure there is a lot of luck and coincidence in one single game like a final, like John Terry's missed penalty, but Mourinho is a magician when it comes to sounding out important differences between his team and the other. I know Mourinho was not the manager when Terry missed that penalty or when Chelsea in fact did win the Champions League, but they did it in his fashion. When you play a superior team you don't beat them by playing like they do, you try to be better than their offense by being better defensively. Nothing wrong with that. Just plain smart.

 

People talk about Arsenal and their invincible team, but they were not the best. Not losing a single game does not better Chelsea's season in 2004/2005 when they lost two games. In that season they racked up 95 points which is the highest ever and thus better than Arsenal, scoring 72 goals and letting in 15. That's right, 15 goals over the course of one season - the same amount we got in three games last season! Clubs will beat Arsenal's Invincibles several times over in terms of points, but no team will ever beat that record of 15 goals in 38 games. Thinking about it now, I don't understand how they could pull it off. It doesn't matter if you have better players than the others, because over so many games you will let in goals here and there because of lapses in concentration. That record shows just how dedicated Mourinho is to details and things managers like Lambert and Poyet would never even understand. Looking at their last results of that season, when the title was already sealed, they let in quite a few goals at the end so the record could even have been better. 25 clean sheets in total. You see it again this season, Mourinho returns to a completely different team set up by AVB and without some types he would have liked, but after 24 games he is right where he wants to be 2 points behind the leader and they have let in the fewest amount of goals.

 very good rendition....not a bad guy to learn from ay!....is all what i was saying in my OP

 

Edited February 7, 2014 by TRO

[TRO]

Tro you did make a good point in the OP. Very few teams play with two guys that naturally stay deep or are dms as opposed to one guy at least who runs forward, and when you have Chelsea's front four you can afford that.

thanks for that....I know there are many other factors that make JM's presentation work, but i was merely reminding one or two that we did something similar in 81/82...playing with basically 4 out and out offensive players and 6 defensive type players...too many attacking types can actually have a reverse effect.....sounds paradoxical i know.

 

you know what i mean......do ever get the feeling you wished you hadn't started. lol

[rjw63]

I see he's sticking his oar in about a game his team wasn't even involved in (Toure allegedly kicking Wolfspenis).

 

If it wasn't a direct rival he wouldn't take any notice. Bellend.

[Demitri_C]

cant stand the bloke, detest him highly