Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[turnbull]

I just want a bit of nous from my manager.

........and his coaching staff.

[StefanAVFC]

Drat, no issues from me. It just seemed a bit 'baity' and somebody did react in an aggressive way so one could say that viewpoint is justified, but as said it really doesn't matter.

 

I'm so torn at the moment. I just want somebody with a bit of nous. I've stuck to the assertion that even though Lambert isn't totally blameless, he's been hamstrung by Lerner, but now I'm thinking that he can't even get the basics right. When I see him now, I just think back to the bloke at the Bradford game who had no plan; no ideas and just looked physically completely lost. But sacking him now? Sacking him tomorrow? We take up 2/3 weeks to find a replacement, because it's been proven that we don't do these things quickly, and we're into the latter half of January.

 

But on the other hand, how much worse can things get? We slumped last year but we came out of it. But the same players who pulled us out of that slump are nowhere to be found.

 

It's a truly depressing situation to be in.

[TRO]

I am bitterly disappointed we are at this point of discussion.... but realise it is inevitable.

 

I don't know what Lambert is like at BMH and how he interacts with club staff, how popular he is or how unpopular he is, whether he is strong with the board or if he is a pushover and he is being bullied out of a job, by lack of support....I don't know any of those things.

 

.... but what I do know is, I have seen those postures and body language from players before when we have been in trouble and it ain't anything, but serious, we are in serious trouble.The manager right now denies and it seems like he's looking for divine intervention, by way of returning players from injury. I am unsure Benteke could rescue us right now, Vlaar maybe,stem the tide and introduce a semblance of organization.

 

It is hard not to have a tad of sympathy for Lambert, for what I seen from his players yesterday,because they basically gave him nothing.....but we have not just arrived here, there have been tell tale signs since the Liverpool game.

 

You see, the thing that most us resort to is TIME, "He needs time" all the examples start to creep out of how time is this magic potion that cures all ills....Fact is without the necessary corrective action it is worthless.

we are all assuming that " Time " is to be applied with the same philosophy we seen Alex Ferguson so eloquently use to his advantage.... problem is not many have his skills.

Edited December 27, 2013 by TRO

[GENTLEMAN]

 

I am still not convinced by sacking Lambert during the season, and I do believe we can get some results in the next few games.

 

In terms of the league I assume you mean the next two games? after Swansea and Sunderland we face Arsenal, Liverpool, West Brom and Everton and given the tripe we have been serving up over the last 3 months or so I would not be confident of getting too much, if anything, from that run of games.

 

It is crucial we win tomorrow and get at least a point at Sunderland.

 

We have beaten some good sides in the past it is not that unforeseeable. We need to get behind the team and be supportive in these next few games. This sacking mentality helps nobody associated with the club.

[Big_John_10]

Drat, no issues from me. It just seemed a bit 'baity' and somebody did react in an aggressive way so one could say that viewpoint is justified, but as said it really doesn't matter.

Haha I assume that was aimed at me. I wasn't being aggressive at all. I was pointing out that you can't spend 18 months mocking anyone who doesn't agree with you and then cry that those same people might mock you now that you agree with them. If anyone did choose to mock you it would be because of your previous actions and not just because you were 100% lambert before.

And for the record I wouldn't mock or have a go at you for sharing your new opinion on the manager. I actually believe it makes sense for people to change their minds based on what they see.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Big_John_10

[StefanAVFC]

 

Drat, no issues from me. It just seemed a bit 'baity' and somebody did react in an aggressive way so one could say that viewpoint is justified, but as said it really doesn't matter.

Haha I assume that was aimed at me. I wasn't being aggressive at all. I was pointing out that you can't spend 18 months mocking anyone who doesn't agree with you and then cry that those same people might mock you now that you agree with them. If anyone did choose to mock you it would be because of your previous actions and not just because you were 100% lambert before.

And for the record I wouldn't mock or have a go at you for sharing your new opinion on the manager. I actually believe it makes sense for people to change their minds based on what they see.

 

 

You'd assume wrong.

 

 

 

And still a few deluded people think he is good. Totally out if his depth - time for a change .

 

Are you completely incapable of making a post on Lambert without taking shots at other people?

 

 

I'm not arguing about this. It wasn't even intended to be an argumentative OP, so please for the sake of the thread. Drop it.

[drat01]

Drat, no issues from me. It just seemed a bit 'baity' and somebody did react in an aggressive way so one could say that viewpoint is justified, but as said it really doesn't matter.

 

I'm so torn at the moment. I just want somebody with a bit of nous. I've stuck to the assertion that even though Lambert isn't totally blameless, he's been hamstrung by Lerner, but now I'm thinking that he can't even get the basics right. When I see him now, I just think back to the bloke at the Bradford game who had no plan; no ideas and just looked physically completely lost. But sacking him now? Sacking him tomorrow? We take up 2/3 weeks to find a replacement, because it's been proven that we don't do these things quickly, and we're into the latter half of January.

 

But on the other hand, how much worse can things get? We slumped last year but we came out of it. But the same players who pulled us out of that slump are nowhere to be found.

 

It's a truly depressing situation to be in.

 

Stefan - it is not good and as some of us "older" ones have said recently there are so many similarities between what we see now and instances like Billy McBingo etc many years ago. At that time we had gone from being European champions just a few years earlier to a club that was playing awful football in front of a few disgruntled fans - there was a match against Sheff Wed at home that will always be in the top 5 shit performances to watch as a Villa fan. At that time we had a chairman who was clueless and was adding massively to the problems throughout the club - sound familiar.

 

Lerner and the whole financial setup at the club are certainly massive contributors to the problems, but I agree with you re Lambert and his apparent lack of "nous" as you call it, the basics of football etc. Lerner probably is not leaving the club in the next 6 months at the very least, so we have to look at if Lambert is up to the job of running the playing side of things, and all evidence to date shows that he certainly is not at worst and at the very best is very limited in his ability and experience.

 

So as said we have a transfer window coming up. What we probably need is some experienced loans in - ironically the transfer window before a world cup is actually a good time if there ever was one for loans because certain players need playing time and a platform to show how good they are etc. It's not the answer to our problems for the playing squad but we do need some help there even if it's only temporary. We probably need a change of manager (and certainly need change of coaching staff) - who knows if that will happen .

[AndyM3000]

Other teams have changed manager, Palace, Sunderland, Fulham all look better for it.

 

Last season I was fully behind him even if we went down, I could see what he was trying to do. It was better attacking football but with no experience and defensive problems.

 

Why has he changed to hoofing the ball? I just dont understand it. Nothing against Kozak but the signing baffles me completely. If Benteke got injured just play Gabby or AW up top, it is their natural position after all.

 

I think we have some decent players still but hes setting them up all wrong, the lack of movement from our team is a major issue, 4 guys stood up front waiting for something to happen. I have no idea what we do in training but it cant be working on shape/movement.

 

The last few games have been worse than the 8-0, 4-0, 3-0 run we had last season IMO.

[bradarmstrong_]

Southampton found a manager half way through a season who speaks no English but plays football we can only dream of. The right manager will be out there somewhere, I just have no confidence in Lerner being able to find him.

[markavfc40]

 

 

I am still not convinced by sacking Lambert during the season, and I do believe we can get some results in the next few games.

 

In terms of the league I assume you mean the next two games? after Swansea and Sunderland we face Arsenal, Liverpool, West Brom and Everton and given the tripe we have been serving up over the last 3 months or so I would not be confident of getting too much, if anything, from that run of games.

 

It is crucial we win tomorrow and get at least a point at Sunderland.

 

We have beaten some good sides in the past it is not that unforeseeable. We need to get behind the team and be supportive in these next few games. This sacking mentality helps nobody associated with the club.

 

 

 

It is a lovely way of looking at things but for me totally deluded. I am sure if the team apply themselves in the right way from the get go tomorrow then the fans will be right behind them. I certainly will. However if we serve up the kind of dross we did yesterday and for much of this season then that support will wane and certainly at half time and full time feelings will be shown.

 

The only way to keep fans on side or get fans back on side is by getting a team on the pitch giving their all, puting in a decent performance and most importantly securing three points. That needs to start tomorrow. If it doesn't then the negative attitudes towards Lambert will only increase and no one should expect otherwise.

Edited December 27, 2013 by markavfc40

[StefanAVFC]

 

Drat, no issues from me. It just seemed a bit 'baity' and somebody did react in an aggressive way so one could say that viewpoint is justified, but as said it really doesn't matter.

 

I'm so torn at the moment. I just want somebody with a bit of nous. I've stuck to the assertion that even though Lambert isn't totally blameless, he's been hamstrung by Lerner, but now I'm thinking that he can't even get the basics right. When I see him now, I just think back to the bloke at the Bradford game who had no plan; no ideas and just looked physically completely lost. But sacking him now? Sacking him tomorrow? We take up 2/3 weeks to find a replacement, because it's been proven that we don't do these things quickly, and we're into the latter half of January.

 

But on the other hand, how much worse can things get? We slumped last year but we came out of it. But the same players who pulled us out of that slump are nowhere to be found.

 

It's a truly depressing situation to be in.

 

Stefan - it is not good and as some of us "older" ones have said recently there are so many similarities between what we see now and instances like Billy McBingo etc many years ago. At that time we had gone from being European champions just a few years earlier to a club that was playing awful football in front of a few disgruntled fans - there was a match against Sheff Wed at home that will always be in the top 5 shit performances to watch as a Villa fan. At that time we had a chairman who was clueless and was adding massively to the problems throughout the club - sound familiar.

 

Lerner and the whole financial setup at the club are certainly massive contributors to the problems, but I agree with you re Lambert and his apparent lack of "nous" as you call it, the basics of football etc. Lerner probably is not leaving the club in the next 6 months at the very least, so we have to look at if Lambert is up to the job of running the playing side of things, and all evidence to date shows that he certainly is not at worst and at the very best is very limited in his ability and experience.

 

So as said we have a transfer window coming up. What we probably need is some experienced loans in - ironically the transfer window before a world cup is actually a good time if there ever was one for loans because certain players need playing time and a platform to show how good they are etc. It's not the answer to our problems for the playing squad but we do need some help there even if it's only temporary. We probably need a change of manager (and certainly need change of coaching staff) - who knows if that will happen .

 

 

Who knows indeed.

 

Yesterday was easily one of the worst fan reactions I've ever seen at the Villa. Was worse than Bradford IMO. It can only be EVEN worse with a loss to Swansea. And where does he go from there? I think that'll be my cut off point to give a 100% definitive answer of whether I want him to go.

 

 

Southampton found a manager half way through a season who speaks no English but plays football we can only dream of. The right manager will be out there somewhere, I just have no confidence in Lerner being able to find him.

 

They also spent about £903724783742p23828323236rfkds7s more million than we have.

[Big_John_10]

I just have no confidence in Lerner being able to find him.

Or offering the kind of opportunity they would want to come for.

I'm actually dissapointed that lamberts so happy to work under the current constraints. Where's his ambition?

[LondonVillian]

It's not that we are loosing its the lack of any conviction or drive in our play. 

 

Yesterday 80 mins of the game we were just shuffling around side to side passing at walking pace. 

 

People have said we are a long ball team - tbh I was desperate for a long ball yesterday at least make palace defend and move em around the pitch!!!!

 

Lamberts post match comments were the nail in the coffin for me. 

 

enough to win the game????

 

Are you kidding me lambert!

[dont_do_it_doug.]

BJ10 - There's not much point is there, you'd argue black to be white. I was expressing an opinion held by many about the general atmosphere in this forum.

[Nigel]

Are people being serious calling for OGS or Rednapp?

 

Either wouldnt touch us with a bargepole, the same with any manager with a good reputation.

 

If we are to change we will be looking at the likes of Warnock or Curbishly. Maybe the likes of an unproven manager could come in, the likes of an Ian Taylor, but how effective will they be with no financial backing?

 

My thoughts are really 50/50 now, after being a staunch Lambert supporter previously.  However I cant help the feeling that in all probability the new manager wont offer anyting better in the short term or the long term.

[tomh621]

Anyone who wants to argue AT each other, rather than constructively discussing opinions etc, should go on Facebook and twitter and bicker there. It's boring to read/scroll and id rather learn about the fans opinions on our club.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I just have no confidence in Lerner being able to find him.

Or offering the kind of opportunity they would want to come for.

I'm actually dissapointed that lamberts so happy to work under the current constraints. Where's his ambition?

He doesn't look happy to me. His ambitions are clearly not of his own making.

What can he do now though? If he walks he'll not get a job as "big" as this again for a very long time. Might as well stick it out and test his metal.

One thing I'll not question is his balls. Bringing on Jordan Bowery time after time proves their mahoosiveness beyond doubt. Not walking right now, today, proves it further.

I admire him for that.

[bradarmstrong_]

How can narrowly avoiding relegation be a small step forward when we were actually playing decent football in the last few months of 12/13? Those performances and style of football should have been taken forward into this season, but that progress has been completely eradicated, and yet again we're left with another season worrying if the club will maintain its premier league status.

[OutByEaster?]

The sad truth is that managers are becoming less and less important at clubs, they're increasingly coaches whilst others make the important decisions, far and away the most important position in a club now is the owners bank account, and spending power is everything. I could Manage Man City and win things. Mourinho couldn't make Palace a force.

 

Changing the manager can still have an impact, but it's becoming less and less of an impact over time - the days where the manager was the be all and end all of the club are gone. I read the other day that Chelsea had eleven managers between their two Mourinho stints, I can't remember them all, despite the fact that they are probably some of the worlds best managers, I can't remember them because they are almost irrelevant - Abramovich is the driving force, and the reason why they continued to win trophies over all of those years. 

 

I quite like Lambert in many ways, he seems a progressive coach and one who wants to learn to be better at the role, he's flexible in the style of play (to the point where at the moment this is a weakness, players without confidence need a simple plan) and he's seemingly happy to work within the limitations of the club. I don't like the "we go again", "can't fault the effort" gubbins that comes out in press conferences; but all managers are like that, it's Ferguson's legacy - they aren't paid to keep us happy, they're paid to keep the players in the best mental state to win. I'd rather have an honest man, but until somebody proves Ferguson's see no evil hear no evil (in public) way is wrong, then we're stuck with it.

 

The Chairman isn't in an easy position either - could he put more money into the club? Of course he could. Would it make us better? Yes. Would it make us better to the point where we could challenge the top six? Sadly not - Lerner could put every penny he's got in and we wouldn't get to the top of the pile, he simply isn't rich enough.

 

So the balance for him is how much does he waste making us okay instead of bad and what does he do about it in the longer term - he'll be looking to sell to someone richer, but there won't be many out there, and I guess he'll be hoping for the game to change - but there's no will to that in a global TV market that values the celebrity status of it's superstar clubs. He's stuck, and with him we are too.

 

I'm against a sacking right now, the club is a little sick right now, it has been for a couple of years, but for me the club changing managers right now is a smoker changing brands and hoping to get better. In the short term I think the only solution is for Randy to waste a little more in ensuring we're just good enough to see this one out. Yay.

 

Beyond that, who knows? The idea that there's another Ron Saunders out there isn't going to happen, managers just aren't capable of that kind of impact any more - it's a different game.

[LondonVillian]

Bowery coming on is a joke -  bent on loan>?????? 

 

Helienius ??