Speculation Transfer Speculation (Winter 2014)

[jimbojames]

 

 

Don't let me get in the way of your constant negativity, but we also signed Darren Bent in a) January and b ) further along in the month than we are now.

 

Back to moaning though, please.

 

That was back in the days when the owner was prepared to dig deep into his pockets. We were in a worse position at this stage least season then we are now and we ended up with Sylla and Dawkins. Its not always moaning its realism of where we are at.

[bobzy]

 

 

 

Don't let me get in the way of your constant negativity, but we also signed Darren Bent in a) January and b ) further along in the month than we are now.

 

Back to moaning though, please.

 

That was back in the days when the owner was prepared to dig deep into his pockets. We were in a worse position at this stage least season then we are now and we ended up with Sylla and Dawkins. Its not always moaning its realism of where we are at.

 

 

It is moaning - nothing more, nothing less.

 

Of course we should be realistic when it comes to transfers on the whole, but we're not even halfway through the window.  I agree that we were in a worse position last season, but I'm also going to reserve judgement on the January window when it comes to February.  We simply cannot know what will happen between now and then.

 

If February rolls around and we've only signed Grant Holt on loan, by all means moan your head off (not you specifically).  But why not just wait and see instead of just constantly being outwardly negative (again, not you)?

[DelboyVilla]

Face it we don't have a pot to piss in and we never did.  £12m signings was fantasy land.  F this sh*t.

 

 

I think the truth is more likely that Lerner is not willing to release adequate funds? He has taken this stand because he has pissed any funds previously released up the wall by continually making the same mistakes over and over! To say we don't have a pot to piss in is probably inaccurate?

[Richard]

 

 

So halfway through the window and so far we have one 30 something , overweight , Wigan reject. You couldn't make it up.

No you sure couldn't but we have similar responses each window so I would have thought by now I should have expected it. It still surprises me that it surprises me

And we had the same wait and see responses last Jan. How did that work out?

 

The signing he made helped us stay up.

 

Look I realise that my opinion of feeling opti does not fit into the diametrically opposed other stance of pessi which seems to pervade this whole site and that people are very quick to cling to the pessimistic angle of all things Villa related,  I am just pointing out that every window we get the same "we're halfway through and only signed,  not signed"  comments and really you would have thought there would be more original things to say,  I mean Grant Holt eats pies you know.

[Morpheus]

Just edited before I saw your post.

So you reckon then that with 12 games won out of 50 Lambert has purchased a good enough squad. Previous results have already shown that when our first team players are injured in particular Vlaar, results take a nose dive. Funny that.

 

If we added 5 quality players to our first team, I think our squad is good enough - yes.

 

Is our first team good enough at the moment?  No.

 

Next idiotic statement please.

Just edited before I saw your post.

So you reckon then that with 12 games won out of 50 Lambert has purchased a good enough squad. Previous results have already shown that when our first team players are injured in particular Vlaar, results take a nose dive. Funny that.

 

If we added 5 quality players to our first team, I think our squad is good enough - yes.

 

Is our first team good enough at the moment?  No.

 

Next idiotic statement please.

Which is exactly my point. After signing 16 players and spending 40 plus million we are no better off than under previous managers.

[bobzy]

 

Which is exactly my point. After signing 16 players and spending 40 plus million we are no better off than under previous managers.

 

 

Sigh.  I've been over all of this before but...

 

...we've reduced our outgoings significantly which has quite obviously held the club back (weren't we spending something crazy like 90% of our revenue on wages alone?).  A lot of this has revolved around getting rid of players that were initially signed up on silly contracts (entirely the club/Lerner's fault).  As these have been shipped out, we've needed to replace them with cheaper options on nowhere near as high wages to get the basis of a squad (which is what you bemoaned) in place.  Due to the age of most of these players, most would have some sort of resale value further down the line if we needed to sell.  This is essentially an added bonus as we're currently losing older players for nothing.

 

Once this squad is in place, as it pretty much is now, we should be looking to add quality players into it.  All of this can't be done within 18 months and, naturally, replacing an entire team or even a managerial set up (Man Utd, Tottenham, Watford, Wigan) will likely mean a decline in performances and quality until this comes to fruition.

 

If you think you're getting a quality squad and first team by spending £40m on 16 players you're on a drug that I'd love to get hold of.

[Morpheus]

FFS, you get what you pay for. Lambert's best signings have been his most expensive. When he's spent squad-player money he's got squad players, when he's spent more than 3 million he's got decent first teamers. What part of people's brains makes them forget the transfer fee when evaluating a signing?

Using that logic you are then excusing Lambert's 12 poor signings because we didn't pay above 3m for them. It would also literally throw out the window that you can't sign better players than Lambert has signed for the same fees which is as claret & blue blinkered as it comes.

[turnbull]

So we don't have a pot to piss in but we do have a wall to piss up.

 

Is this a good thing? 

[dn1982]

So halfway through the window and so far we have one 30 something , overweight , Wigan reject. You couldn't make it up.

No you sure couldn't but we have similar responses each window so I would have thought by now I should have expected it. It still surprises me that it surprises me

And we had the same wait and see responses last Jan. How did that work out?

I'm sure last year we was told there wouldn't be any signings this year we have an indication we are looking at at least 2 more. I'd say it a different scenario all together unfortunately we will have to wait and see which can be frustrating. I'd hope we have all our signings done by the WBA game as that massive for every body involved at the club.

[Morpheus]

Which is exactly my point. After signing 16 players and spending 40 plus million we are no better off than under previous managers.

Sigh. I've been over all of this before but...

...we've reduced our outgoings significantly which has quite obviously held the club back (weren't we spending something crazy like 90% of our revenue on wages alone?). A lot of this has revolved around getting rid of players that were initially signed up on silly contracts (entirely the club/Lerner's fault). As these have been shipped out, we've needed to replace them with cheaper options on nowhere near as high wages to get the basis of a squad (which is what you bemoaned) in place. Due to the age of most of these players, most would have some sort of resale value further down the line if we needed to sell. This is essentially an added bonus as we're currently losing older players for nothing.

Once this squad is in place, as it pretty much is now, we should be looking to add quality players into it. All of this can't be done within 18 months and, naturally, replacing an entire team or even a managerial set up (Man Utd, Tottenham, Watford, Wigan) will likely mean a decline in performances and quality until this comes to fruition.

If you think you're getting a quality squad and first team by spending £40m on 16 players you're on a drug that I'd love to get hold of.

More insults doesn't make your argument right homie as you like to call people.

He didn't have to replace an entire team though did he and he certainly didn't have to replace those already at the club with lower league and inexperienced players in what could only be deemed as a cull all at once. He was given a budget and as the Chief Executive has already stated it was up to Lambert how he spent that.

Interesting to find that now after a record of 50 games under Lambert with only 12 wins he has now decided that we need experienced players and before you go into the same tiresome and boring well used excuse of not being able to afford experienced players we have signed one on loan and been linked to another who's value is somewhere in the region of 1m which isn't far off in what we paid for several of Lambert's failed signings.

Edit. Signing players who won't achieve the same type of monitory loss as some of our previous players is irrelevant if those players are producing performances which continually puts us into relegation trouble.

Ok homie?

Edited January 15, 2014 by Morpheus

[Big_John_10]

So halfway through the window and so far we have one 30 something , overweight , Wigan reject. You couldn't make it up.

No you sure couldn't but we have similar responses each window so I would have thought by now I should have expected it. It still surprises me that it surprises me

And we had the same wait and see responses last Jan. How did that work out?

The signing he made helped us stay up.

Look I realise that my opinion of feeling opti does not fit into the diametrically opposed other stance of pessi which seems to pervade this whole site and that people are very quick to cling to the pessimistic angle of all things Villa related, I am just pointing out that every window we get the same "we're halfway through and only signed, not signed" comments and really you would have thought there would be more original things to say, I mean Grant Holt eats pies you know.

[bobzy]

 

 

Which is exactly my point. After signing 16 players and spending 40 plus million we are no better off than under previous managers.

 

Sigh.  I've been over all of this before but...

 

...we've reduced our outgoings significantly which has quite obviously held the club back (weren't we spending something crazy like 90% of our revenue on wages alone?).  A lot of this has revolved around getting rid of players that were initially signed up on silly contracts (entirely the club/Lerner's fault).  As these have been shipped out, we've needed to replace them with cheaper options on nowhere near as high wages to get the basis of a squad (which is what you bemoaned) in place.  Due to the age of most of these players, most would have some sort of resale value further down the line if we needed to sell.  This is essentially an added bonus as we're currently losing older players for nothing.

 

Once this squad is in place, as it pretty much is now, we should be looking to add quality players into it.  All of this can't be done within 18 months and, naturally, replacing an entire team or even a managerial set up (Man Utd, Tottenham, Watford, Wigan) will likely mean a decline in performances and quality until this comes to fruition.

 

If you think you're getting a quality squad and first team by spending £40m on 16 players you're on a drug that I'd love to get hold of.

More insults doesn't make your argument right homie as you like to call people.

He didn't have to replace an entire team though did he and he certainly didn't have to replace those already at the club with lower league and inexperienced players in what could only be deemed as a cull all at once. He was given a budget and as the Chief Executive has already stated it was up to Lambert how he spent that.

Interesting to find that now after a record of 50 games under Lambert with only 12 wins he has now decided that we need experienced players and before you go into the same tiresome and boring well used excuse of not being able to afford experienced players we have signed one on loan and been linked to another who's value is somewhere in the region of 1m which isn't far off in what we paid for several of Lambert's failed signings.

Ok homie?

 

 

I haven't insulted you once in there - just addressed what I saw fit r.e: your squad concerns.

 

I don't understand what you're not getting here though.  We've purchased a new squad.  A new squad!  The underpinning of this certainly seems to have been buying cheaper, younger players who have presumably been deemed to have certain qualities that could see them improve at a higher level whilst their age means they could be sold on if the situation arose.  You seem pretty fixated on the young issue, though.  Almost holding it to Lambert's head like a verbal gun.

 

Lambert has said previously that he prefers players who are "young and hungry" (or words to those effect) but I don't remember him ever saying that these are the only players he'd ever sign?  Indeed, Vlaar and KEA seem to go against this - along with the loan signing of Holt.  In my mind, once you have the makings of a squad in place, you can then assess where the weaknesses are and address them accordingly.  To me, this is roughly where we are now and a lot will depend on what budget is given to Lambert/whoever is the manager next during summer.  We need some reinforcement this month in my eyes, but I think summer will be the main hive of activity - and in many ways that makes sense.

 

Anyhow, we are now in a better position as a football club than we have been in a long while - the only thing lacking is quality on the pitch.  Perhaps this your sole concern and we should spend our way into oblivion purely to maintain a certain level on the pitch?  Fair enough if it is, too.  For me, I'm glad we've addressed a major fault in the ownership and running of the club and can see exactly how we're on a much better footing for going forwards.

 

Am I saying everyone of Lambert's signings have been brilliant?  No.  Am I saying our squad is the best squad in the league?  No.  Am I saying Lambert has worked absolute wonders at the club?  No.  What I am saying is that we are now heading in the right direction with an easily maintained squad that only needs quality players added to it.  Be this under Lerner, under a new owner, under Lambert or under a new manager, the club is setup in a sustainable manner which is hasn't been for years.

 

This isn't good news for you though homie?  Nevermind, keep moaning.

 

 

 

Edit:  I forgot to mention that, obviously, any signing for around £2m or less has a certain gamble factor surrounding them.  I can't believe that anyone would have thought that all "bargain" players we've signed were going to be awesome.

Edited January 15, 2014 by bobzy

[flamingsombrero]

No news just bickering? Yes? Ok then, see you all tomorrow.

[StanBalaban]

He didn't have to replace an entire team though did he and he certainly didn't have to replace those already at the club with lower league and inexperienced players in what could only be deemed as a cull all at once. He was given a budget and as the Chief Executive has already stated it was up to Lambert how he spent that.

 

I have a theory on this part...

 

As HH mentioned, I believe Lambert was under pressure to replace the squad - targeting the likes of Warnock, Dunne, Collins, Hutton, Bent, Ireland, Given, et al

 

In order to do that it would be nigh on impossible to time the exits with the new arrivals so there's no overlap. So along he went with spending his budget on new, cheaper squad members, bringing them into the club.  Where I think he's been caught by surprise is the sheer lack of interest in the players we were looking to sell, resulting in players being replaced on the pitch whilst the old guard were still at the club.

 

Had we sold first then looked to bring the targets in, you run the risk of being caught with unfilled positions, or players having to bed-in at the last minute. Because no one wanted our dross doesn't mean that they were still welcome at the club, so I think he actually did have to buy a lot of players.

[Ghost]

No news just bickering? Yes? Ok then, see you all tomorrow.

 

[villaglint]

 

He didn't have to replace an entire team though did he and he certainly didn't have to replace those already at the club with lower league and inexperienced players in what could only be deemed as a cull all at once. He was given a budget and as the Chief Executive has already stated it was up to Lambert how he spent that.

 

I have a theory on this part...

 

As HH mentioned, I believe Lambert was under pressure to replace the squad - targeting the likes of Warnock, Dunne, Collins, Hutton, Bent, Ireland, Given, et al

 

In order to do that it would be nigh on impossible to time the exits with the new arrivals so there's no overlap. So along he went with spending his budget on new, cheaper squad members, bringing them into the club.  Where I think he's been caught by surprise is the sheer lack of interest in the players we were looking to sell, resulting in players being replaced on the pitch whilst the old guard were still at the club.

 

Had we sold first then looked to bring the targets in, you run the risk of being caught with unfilled positions, or players having to bed-in at the last minute. Because no one wanted our dross doesn't mean that they were still welcome at the club, so I think he actually did have to buy a lot of players.

 

 

I  think that is spot on.

 

Also the back end of the McLeish season was far worse than now not because the football was worse (we all know it has been largely the same at times this year) but because much of the squad really didnt care that we were playing crap and losing.

 

McLeish was targeted with getting the best out of players like Warnock, Dunne, Collins, Hutton, Ireland, et al but they really didnt give a crap about us as a club and had checked out mentally a long time ago. I can remember five or six games in the run in that year where we were losing and these players had no inclination to get us back into the game.

 

If nothing else at least we've got a team now who give a crap and try. They have limitations no doubt and the reasons for that are largely covered in the post above.

[bobzy]

No news just bickering? Yes? Ok then, see you all tomorrow.

 

Very fair and I won't crap all over the thread anymore

[Panto_Villan]

I agree. Why doesn't everyone just either put either "I'm furious about everything"/ "I'm waiting to see what happens before making a judgement" / "I'm happy with the way things are going" in their signature and then only comment when they've got something new to contribute to the discussion? The signal to noise ratio in the forum is pretty bad at the moment.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Panto_Villan

[P3te]

 

 

Just edited before I saw your post.

So you reckon then that with 12 games won out of 50 Lambert has purchased a good enough squad. Previous results have already shown that when our first team players are injured in particular Vlaar, results take a nose dive. Funny that.

 

If we added 5 quality players to our first team, I think our squad is good enough - yes.

 

Is our first team good enough at the moment?  No.

 

Next idiotic statement please.

 

Just edited before I saw your post.

So you reckon then that with 12 games won out of 50 Lambert has purchased a good enough squad. Previous results have already shown that when our first team players are injured in particular Vlaar, results take a nose dive. Funny that.

 

If we added 5 quality players to our first team, I think our squad is good enough - yes.

 

Is our first team good enough at the moment?  No.

 

Next idiotic statement please.

Which is exactly my point. After signing 16 players and spending 40 plus million we are no better off than under previous managers.

 

after spending 40m and signing 16 players we're a little bit better off but spending a whole lot less every week. That's more to do with how poorly things were managed financially previously though

[El-Reacho]

No news just bickering? Yes? Ok then, see you all tomorrow.

 

Edited January 15, 2014 by El-Reacho