Wainy316 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 But then on sporting ability alone Ali is the greatest heavyweight of all time. It's a great unanswerable that I'd love to have seen Tyson at his absolute peak versus Ali at his. Tyson. Machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Is snooker really a sport though? No, it does not involve physical exertion, nor does darts for that matter. They are pastimes or games, albeit very competitive ones that people can compete in to a professional standard. Thats not to denigrate those that excel at them, they just aren't sports, just like chess isn't a sport. On a similar note, any physical activity that requires judging to determine the the outcome of a competition in every instance, like ice dancing or synchro swimming isn't a sport either, this excludes Boxing as the judging is only required at the end in the event of a tie. What about shooting? Is that a sport? Or Archery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I'm going to have to keep repeating this point, aren't I? Don't get sidetracked by Ali's personality. He wasn't some Harry Redknapp style also ran who because popular because he had friends in the media and he wasn't some Anna Kournikova style never was who managed to get by because of a glamourous image. The guy was a phenomenally good boxer. Half the people he beat were so good they ended up in the boxing hall of fame with him. But then on sporting ability alone Ali is the greatest heavyweight of all time. It's a great unanswerable that I'd love to have seen Tyson at his absolute peak versus Ali at his. I'd say George Foreman was a better fighter than Tyson. Ali beat Foreman when Foreman was at his absolute peak. Foreman was 40-0-0 with 37 knockouts when he fought Ali. He was defending heavyweight Champion and he had just knocked Joe Frazier and Ken Norton out in two rounds. In fact I think Ali beat several fighters who were better than Tyson. I'm not sure Tyson ever beat anybody who you would consider truly great save for a Larry Holmes who was pushing 40 and coming out of retirement when they met. Edited October 30, 2013 by The_Rev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 What about the 4 that defeated him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2013 No you don't have to repeat yourself Rev. He is a great. No-one will deny that. With him though, you can't get away from the personality and I think that embellishes the legend and distorts the picture in his favour. And I think being arguably the greatest person in one weight division of one sport doesn't qualify you as the greatest sportsman of all time. Thorpe and Woosnam are the standouts for me in that respect from this thread so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm going to have to keep repeating this point, aren't I? Don't get sidetracked by Ali's personality. He wasn't some Harry Redknapp style also ran who because popular because he had friends in the media and he wasn't some Anna Kournikova style never was who managed to get by because of a glamourous image. The guy was a phenomenally good boxer. Half the people he beat were so good they ended up in the boxing hall of fame with him. I don't think anyone's doubting that. I think most would probably accept that there's atleast an argument for him being the greatest boxer of all time, or there abouts. I think the point is that, on ability alone, he just about manages to scrape the title of greatest boxer in history. Perhaps. That doesn't make him the greatest sportsman of all time though. His personality is what quite often elevates him into contention for such a title, and I think that's what people take objection to. He may have been the greatest boxer of all time, but his persona is what makes him one of the 20th century's most remembered characters. For me, he wasn't undeniably head and shoulders above all others. That's why I don't think he's the greatest sportsman of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2013 Shooting and archery, I'd say they are. Though I think target shooting would possibly be borderline as the discipline is all about lack of exertion and keeping the heart rate down but when you take clay pigeon shooting into account then definitely yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 It's worth pointing out that on this date in 1974, was the Rumble in the Jungle. Ali showed (or rather reminded) the world just how great a boxer he was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnbull Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Valentino Rossi. Brilliant and bonkers with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 30, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2013 Surely a thread like this is in need of a poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnbull Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2013 Surely a thread like this is in need of a poll? I'm not sure it goes up to 4,500 candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 30, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thats better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 30, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2013 Surely a thread like this is in need of a poll? I'm not sure it goes up to 4,500 candidates. We just need 2.. Ronnie O Sullivan An other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Senna... Brian Lara? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I know Senna carries a legend with him but was he actually better than Michael Schumacher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2013 I know Senna carries a legend with him but was he actually better than Michael Schumacher? Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I know Senna carries a legend with him but was he actually better than Michael Schumacher? Senna beat much better drivers for his titles IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Senna... Brian Lara? Lara is a tough one to argue for, as he'll always be compared to Tedulkar. He was certainly an amazing cricketer though. One of the best of all time for sure. Well both of them for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Okay fair enough, I've got that doc on him still to watch. I guess that makes Nigel Mansell pretty freaking awesome too though non? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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