The_Rev Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I say Real Madrid by that logic. Yes, they have won a shitload of stuff but if I acknowledge and dismiss that in the same sentence and then state they didn't win anything last year despite having the most expensively assembled squad the game has ever seen then can I make a case? Yes we are underachievers but we aren't up there with some of the clubs already mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I say Real Madrid by that logic. Yes, they have won a shitload of stuff but if I acknowledge and dismiss that in the same sentence and then state they didn't win anything last year despite having the most expensively assembled squad the game has ever seen then can I make a case? Yes we are underachievers but we aren't up there with some of the clubs already mentioned. well it would be copying my case from 2 pages back 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Leeds United for me. Massive fanbase, bigger than Newcastle I'd say. Great history and yet not only are they not competing to win trophies nowadays, they have not even been in the top flight for 10 years. Wouldn't say Leeds have a massive fanbase, definitely not bigger than Newcastle's. They only have a 36,000 seater stadium and only get an average attendance of 22,000, whereas Newcastle got 43,000 in their season in the championship. Having said that, I agree that they are massively underachieving and even though for the majority of my lifetime (maybe not quite), they've been outside the Premier League, I'd still consider them a Premier League team. If you look at it I think Leeds have only spent about 14 years out of the last 30 in the top flight, so is that a big club? Bar the Revie and Wilkinson/O'Leary years it is pretty lean period of success for Leeds. But yes they should be a prem side at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I say Real Madrid by that logic. Yes, they have won a shitload of stuff but if I acknowledge and dismiss that in the same sentence and then state they didn't win anything last year despite having the most expensively assembled squad the game has ever seen then can I make a case? Yes we are underachievers but we aren't up there with some of the clubs already mentioned. Not really, there hasn't really been a point in their history where Madrid haven't been successful. One could argue that they have underachieved recently considering their financial outlay, but they've still been successful in that time so it can't really be considered massive underachievement, even if they should have won more given their resources. We, on the other hand, have had no consistent success for the last 100 years, bar a brief flourish in the early 1980s. I'm not saying we haven't won things, but considering the size of the club we have massively underachieved, especially in comparison to a lot of so called 'smaller' clubs who have actually in many ways eclipsed us in success over the last century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yep. Post war Villa have won 1 title, come in the top 5 I think only on 6 occasions, and have reached 2 FA cup finals since 1924. Not great stats. Thank McGrath for the league cup to up our trophy count. Not this year though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I say Real Madrid by that logic. Yes, they have won a shitload of stuff but if I acknowledge and dismiss that in the same sentence and then state they didn't win anything last year despite having the most expensively assembled squad the game has ever seen then can I make a case? Yes we are underachievers but we aren't up there with some of the clubs already mentioned. Not really, there hasn't really been a point in their history where Madrid haven't been successful. One could argue that they have underachieved recently considering their financial outlay, but they've still been successful in that time so it can't really be considered massive underachievement, even if they should have won more given their resources. We, on the other hand, have had no consistent success for the last 100 years, bar a brief flourish in the early 1980s. I'm not saying we haven't won things, but considering the size of the club we have massively underachieved, especially in comparison to a lot of so called 'smaller' clubs who have actually in many ways eclipsed us in success over the last century. 3 leagues and 1 cup in last 10 years is pretty pathetic considering they broke transfer record many times. I believe in last 10 years they had Kaka, Figo, Ronaldo, Zidane and Bale who all broke the record at one stage plus Ramos who I think was most expensive teenager when bought 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I say Real Madrid by that logic. Yes, they have won a shitload of stuff but if I acknowledge and dismiss that in the same sentence and then state they didn't win anything last year despite having the most expensively assembled squad the game has ever seen then can I make a case? Yes we are underachievers but we aren't up there with some of the clubs already mentioned. well it would be copying my case from 2 pages back Great minds think alike. What more can I say? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Leeds United for me. Massive fanbase, bigger than Newcastle I'd say. Great history and yet not only are they not competing to win trophies nowadays, they have not even been in the top flight for 10 years. I was thinking of Leeds, not only for that but they're won of the few major English teams never to have won a European trophy (even if they ironically chant about being cheated in the 1975 euro final); Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Because I like lists, the English clubs who have won European trophies: Arsenal: Cup Winners Cup Aston Villa: European Cup Chelsea: Champions League, Europa League, Cup Winners Cup (one of a small group of clubs who have won all three trophies) Everton: Cup Winners Cup Ipswich Town: UEFA Cup Liverpool: European Cup/Champions League, UEFA Cup (one of a small group of clubs who managed to retain the European Cup) Man Utd: European Cup/Champions League, Cup Winners Cup Nottingham Forest: European Cup (one of a small group of clubs who managed to retain the trophy) Spurs: Cup Winners Cup, UEFA Cup West Ham: Cup Winners Cup Ten clubs with European honours by my count, I don't think I've missed anybody. I'm not counting shit like the Fairs Cup or the Intertoto. Villa, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd & Forest have all picked up the Super Cup too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Because I like lists, the English clubs who have won European trophies: Arsenal: Cup Winners Cup Aston Villa: European Cup Chelsea: Champions League, Europa League, Cup Winners Cup (one of a small group of clubs who have won all three trophies) Everton: Cup Winners Cup Ipswich Town: UEFA Cup Liverpool: European Cup/Champions League, UEFA Cup (one of a small group of clubs who managed to retain the European Cup) Man Utd: European Cup/Champions League, Cup Winners Cup Nottingham Forest: European Cup (one of a small group of clubs who managed to retain the trophy) Spurs: Cup Winners Cup, UEFA Cup West Ham: Cup Winners Cup Ten clubs with European honours by my count, I don't think I've missed anybody. I'm not counting shit like the Fairs Cup or the Intertoto. Villa, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd & Forest have all picked up the Super Cup too. City also won the Cup Winners Cup in 1970 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcTheObsession Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Leeds United for me. Massive fanbase, bigger than Newcastle I'd say. Great history and yet not only are they not competing to win trophies nowadays, they have not even been in the top flight for 10 years. Wouldn't say Leeds have a massive fanbase, definitely not bigger than Newcastle's. They only have a 36,000 seater stadium and only get an average attendance of 22,000, whereas Newcastle got 43,000 in their season in the championship. Having said that, I agree that they are massively underachieving and even though for the majority of my lifetime (maybe not quite), they've been outside the Premier League, I'd still consider them a Premier League team. Their stadium holds 40,000 not 36,000 and sells out every week when they are in the prem. Leeds spiralled down the leagues to League 1 where they began life with minus 15 points, they then spent several years there, their fans having all the life sucked out of them before eventually getting up to the Championship. To compare their Championship average of around 25,000 with Newcastle, who spent one season there with a squad which contained many Premier league quality players is not a fair comparison imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Leeds United for me. Massive fanbase, bigger than Newcastle I'd say. Great history and yet not only are they not competing to win trophies nowadays, they have not even been in the top flight for 10 years. Wouldn't say Leeds have a massive fanbase, definitely not bigger than Newcastle's. They only have a 36,000 seater stadium and only get an average attendance of 22,000, whereas Newcastle got 43,000 in their season in the championship. Having said that, I agree that they are massively underachieving and even though for the majority of my lifetime (maybe not quite), they've been outside the Premier League, I'd still consider them a Premier League team. Their stadium holds 40,000 not 36,000 and sells out every week when they are in the prem. Leeds spiralled down the leagues to League 1 where they began life with minus 15 points, they then spent several years there, their fans having all the life sucked out of them before eventually getting up to the Championship. To compare their Championship average of around 25,000 with Newcastle, who spent one season there with a squad which contained many Premier league quality players is not a fair comparison imo. I got the stadium capacity wrong you're right, but it is still only 38000 (though I think that is due to redevelopment plans). If you want a fair comparison to Newcastle, I'll use the first season Leeds went down, when they had an average attendance of 28000, still much less than Newcastle. Plus they didn't sell out every week in the Prem, their averages ranged from 27000 to 39000 (on average somewhere between 33-35 thousand), much like Villa's, and was high when they were doing well, again like Villa's. I'm not saying Leeds don't have a big fanbase, especially for a Championship club, but they don't have a massive one, and certainly not a bigger one than Newcastle. As I said in my first post, I agree they are massively underachieving, but to say they have a massive fanbase is wrong imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 It's got to be Villa. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcTheObsession Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I got the stadium capacity wrong you're right, but it is still only 38000 (though I think that is due to redevelopment plans). If you want a fair comparison to Newcastle, I'll use the first season Leeds went down, when they had an average attendance of 28000, still much less than Newcastle. Plus they didn't sell out every week in the Prem, their averages ranged from 27000 to 39000 (on average somewhere between 33-35 thousand), much like Villa's, and was high when they were doing well, again like Villa's. I'm not saying Leeds don't have a big fanbase, especially for a Championship club, but they don't have a massive one, and certainly not a bigger one than Newcastle. As I said in my first post, I agree they are massively underachieving, but to say they have a massive fanbase is wrong imo. It does seem to have had its capacity reduced by 2k since they were in the prem. However, it held 40k when they were in the prem and they did sell out every week for 4 seasons running between 99/00 and 03/04 hence their average being constantly between 39-40k during that time. Maybe saying bigger than Newcastle was over-egging it a bit, I'd still say it's massive though and bigger than Villa's imo, which people often refer to as massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) That's probably where the disagreement lies, I would not consider Villa's support massive either, you'd find it very hard to find many Villa fans outside of the Midlands. I'd probably consider Villa's and Leeds' fanbases on a par too, possibly consider Vila's bigger through my Claret and Blue glasses. Edited November 1, 2013 by MessiWillSignForVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Newcastle may have a bigger localised fanbase than leeds but their is no way they have a bigger nationwide fanbase, you have got leeds fans all over the country, I'd probaly say they are the 3rd biggest supported club in england behind united and liverpool, obviously their home gates don't back this up but to be fair leeds have never had huge home crowds even when they were the best team in the land, their away support is something else, they have been selling out most grounds year after year in the lower leagues and they have been absolute shit which makes it even more impressive, they sold out 3k tickets for charlton in 20mins of them going on sale and then they got given an extra 200 which sold out in 2mins, plus with all the fans that also go in the home ends its a tremendous following they have, like ourselfs thought they should pull in more at home, can't stand leeds but credit where credit is due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I think Leeds are potentially a big club, but to call them the 3rd most supported club is quite frankly ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 You would be very surprised how well they are supported, just my opinion and I may be wrong but they are definately in the top 6, but I still stand by what I said, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Arsenal are definitely 3rd. They are huge. Leeds are also massive though especially considering they have been out of the top flight. They are probably like top 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 You would be very surprised how well they are supported, just my opinion and I may be wrong but they are definately in the top 6, but I still stand by what I said, My uncle is a Leeds fan, goes to many away games, but very few home games. He himself has said Villa and Leeds are on a par with support, I would agree with him. It's definitely Arsenal 3rd(if not 2nd) then probably Spurs, they are massive in London and the surrounding areas, which is massive remember, Chelsea then Newcastle, then Everton, Us, Man City, Leeds and Sunderland in no real order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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