Zatman Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 If Pogba backed up his game nobody would have a problem with what he does on social media, I also couldnt care what he looks like and for me the criticism has nothing to do skin colour, Ngolo Kante is probably the most loved player in the league among neutrals. Pogba prances around the pitch as if he is playing an exhibition game every week and rarely tracks back to help his team. Look across the city and David Silva, Bernardo and De Bruyne are all much better players than Pogba but crucially play 2 ways. It is an average United team but if this is your leader then you are **** 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Pogba isn't man united's biggest problem. He is however part of the team that's struggling so he is a part of the problem. Regardless of whether that's his sporting ability, footballing brain, commitment, approach, attitude or whatever else might it might be. I think that accusing people of racist attitudes is a bit out of place based on a critique of a player that has played a part in 6 losses out of the last 8 games. And trust me, I don't like Harry Kane that much. did I say anything about racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I know what you mean but at the same time don't think its just looks like, I think there is also an older generation of football fans and media that just don't get him and understand a) what he does on the pitch and b) definitely what he does off it trying to explain to some of the old boys at work the significance of Pogba's 48.5m followers across the 3 main social media platforms compared to Kanes 12.4m would be a non starter and I would throw in that I know a fair few and on social media have seen a hell of a lot more people that judge grealish purely on his hair and shin pads...Pogba will be the same, people see the hair cuts and dabs and ignore the rest, their mind is already made up that he's a dick which nearly automatically means that he's either shit or lazy so of course he's a bad egg making utd shit and lazy It wasn’t meant to be just a comparison of looks. Also about lifestyle, flair, the way they act outside of the game etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: did I say anything about racism? You said:''If he looked like Harry Kane everyone would love him.'' What difference of looks are you referring to if not skin colour? And why do looks make any difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: You said:''If he looked like Harry Kane everyone would love him.'' What difference of looks are you referring to if not skin colour? And why do looks make any difference? Harry Kane is an plain looking dude and doesn't seem as into fashion and hairstyles that Pogba is...which is basically what the criticism of Pogba boils down to aka he gets lots of haircuts and has a heavy social media presence. Harry Kane is like an old man in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mic09 said: You said:''If he looked like Harry Kane everyone would love him.'' What difference of looks are you referring to if not skin colour? And why do looks make any difference? I probably should have said "looked and acted like Harry Kane". My point was Pogba is a footballer who is flamboyant, has crazy haircuts, loves social media, pushes his brand, plays with flair, has a huge pricetag, gets paid a lot and is perceived as "lazy". He's the exact kind of footballer that lots of people love to hate. Even if they're performing people hate them and when they don't perform people love to jump on them at the first opportunity. Harry Kane is a clean cut, no nonsense, hardworking, quiet, plain looking, normal haircut having "bloke". Even if he doesn't perform people will give him the benefit of the doubt because they like him. Replace Harry Kane with N'Golo Kante (Thanks Zatman) if you want a similar comparison without race brought into it. FWIW, I actually DO think race plays a part in it. And the fact that he's foreign. It does also help that Kane is a white Englishman in my comparison above. But that wasn't the crux of the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: I probably should have said "looked and acted like Harry Kane". My point was Pogba is a footballer who is flamboyant, has crazy haircuts, loves social media, pushes his brand, plays with flair, has a huge pricetag, gets paid a lot and is perceived as "lazy". He's the exact kind of footballer that lots of people love to hate. Even if they're performing people hate them and when they don't perform people love to jump on them at the first opportunity. Harry Kane is a clean cut, no nonsense, hardworking, quiet, plain looking, normal haircut having "bloke". Even if he doesn't perform people will give him the benefit of the doubt because they like him. Replace Harry Kane with N'Golo Kante (Thanks Zatman) if you want a similar comparison without race brought into it. FWIW, I actually DO think race plays a part in it. And the fact that he's foreign. It does also help that Kane is a white Englishman in my comparison above. But that wasn't the crux of the point I was making. I could have read too much into it, but I think other's might have too. Thank you for clarifying. In my view, Pogba wouldn't even make the top 50 of PL funny hair/extraordinary personality contest. I think people critique him because he is one of the worlds most expensive players and plays for one of the world biggest teams, yet sometimes he looks like he can't be bothered. And that's more than enough reason for criticising him without getting into the race argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I could have read too much into it, but I think other's might have too. Thank you for clarifying. In my view, Pogba wouldn't even make the top 50 of PL funny hair/extraordinary personality contest. I think people critique him because he is one of the worlds most expensive players and plays for one of the world biggest teams, yet sometimes he looks like he can't be bothered. And that's more than enough reason for criticising him without getting into the race argument. But as others have pointed out, he's Man Utd's best player. So why is he singled out as their biggest issue? IMO it's because of what I outlined above. And fwiw I think the exact thing happens with every club. It happens on the VT section of this site and in the stands at VP every week Edited April 23, 2019 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 the fee definitely comes in to it but the fee is inflated thanks to his marketability and rate of return, utd haven't paid too much for him, woodward is squeezing every penny out of him man utd aren't making £500m a year because of phil jones face being stuck on Nigerian orange juice bottles 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: But as others have pointed out, he's Man Utd's best player. So why is he singled out as their biggest issue? IMO it's because of what I outlined above. And fwiw I think the exact thing happens with every club. It happens on the VT section of this site and in the stands at VP every week You said it yourself - because he is Man Utd's best player When Juve lose, people talk of Ronaldo. When PSG lose, people talk of Naymar. It's an argument we can't settle as everyone will know where they are coming from in their heart of hearts. We can however concentrate on the objective truths, such as the fact that everyone knows Pogba can give so much more, as he proved on a number of occasions. Sometimes, he just doesn't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I probably should have said "looked and acted like Harry Kane". My point was Pogba is a footballer who is flamboyant, has crazy haircuts, loves social media, pushes his brand, plays with flair, has a huge pricetag, gets paid a lot and is perceived as "lazy". He's the exact kind of footballer that lots of people love to hate. Even if they're performing people hate them and when they don't perform people love to jump on them at the first opportunity. Harry Kane is a clean cut, no nonsense, hardworking, quiet, plain looking, normal haircut having "bloke". Even if he doesn't perform people will give him the benefit of the doubt because they like him. Replace Harry Kane with N'Golo Kante (Thanks Zatman) if you want a similar comparison without race brought into it. FWIW, I actually DO think race plays a part in it. And the fact that he's foreign. It does also help that Kane is a white Englishman in my comparison above. But that wasn't the crux of the point I was making. It reminds me of what I posted on the racism in football thread about Sterling. It really surprised me how much hate he gets when he is a clean cut kid with a good head on his shoulders. Those type of people used to be more slick and only target through more flamboyant characters such as Pogba (he's not even really that flamboyant, he's basically just like most young dudes his age...looking fly and flexing for social media. But I guess that might be a little foreign to a middle aged bloke in the terraces). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Keyblade said: It reminds me of what I posted on the racism in football thread about Sterling. It really surprised me how much hate he gets when he is a clean cut kid with a good head on his shoulders. Those type of people used to be more slick and only target through more flamboyant characters such as Pogba (he's not even really that flamboyant, he's basically just like most young dudes his age...looking fly and flexing for social media. But I guess that might be a little foreign to a middle aged bloke in the terraces). Sterling is the prime example. He's a better example than Pogba because he actually is performing at a very high level and is still vilified by the media. Thankfully, for him, that seems to have been toned down now since people have actually started noticing. 100% the Sterling one is racially motivated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Sterling is the prime example. He's a better example than Pogba because he actually is performing at a very high level and is still vilified by the media. Thankfully, for him, that seems to have been toned down now since people have actually started noticing. 100% the Sterling one is racially motivated. Yeah the mask really slipped with Sterling. I can't tell if Pogba's is racially motivated yet, but he's exactly the type of player that racists would single out in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) The real problem here is some people have a deluded expectation of Pogba to be Keane/Robson type manure leader. He's not. Pogba is a luxury player ala Neymar/Ozil/Ronaldo/Hazard/Zidane etc. There are ways to construct a team that gets this type of player to work hard, e.g., any of Pep's sides, but these types of players need to be indulged and given a limited set of work tasks. Edited April 23, 2019 by villakram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Not buying the racism thing with Pogba. If Beckham or Rooney were more concerned with off field activities and not performing on the pitch they would have got the same treatment. Beckham was a target a lot of the times when out of form FWIW Pogba is not the only modern day footballer poser who never turns up and irritates people. If Neymar was playing in England, it would be the same 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, Zatman said: Not buying the racism thing with Pogba. If Beckham or Rooney were more concerned with off field activities and not performing on the pitch they would have got the same treatment. Beckham was a target a lot of the times when out of form FWIW Pogba is not the only modern day footballer poser who never turns up and irritates people. If Neymar was playing in England, it would be the same Rooney's off field antics were horrible. Couldn't stay in shape, went out drinking and getting in fights and stuff. But as long as he was performing on the pitch he didn't get this much crap. Pogba's off field antics are...taking selfies and getting haircuts? He's delivering on the pitch, so what exactly is the issue? It's not his fault his team isn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Rooney's off field antics were horrible. Couldn't stay in shape, went out drinking and getting in fights and stuff. But as long as he was performing on the pitch he didn't get this much crap. Pogba's off field antics are...taking selfies and getting haircuts? He's delivering on the pitch, so what exactly is the issue? It's not his fault his team isn't very good. the issue is Pogba is not performing on the pitch hence this debate. He acts like he is on a level of Messi and Ronaldo and in fairness has a swagger that he is but as a footballer he is bang average. He looked good at Juventus as he had no defensive responsibilities which padded his ability. He scored 1 goal in the league from open play against a top 10 team and that was a rebound from a penalty, his champions league goals came vs young Boys. He has 3 assists in the last 17 Premier League games and never ever dominates a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Zatman said: the issue is Pogba is not performing on the pitch hence this debate. He acts like he is on a level of Messi and Ronaldo and in fairness has a swagger that he is but as a footballer he is bang average. He looked good at Juventus as he had no defensive responsibilities which padded his ability. He scored 1 goal in the league from open play against a top 10 team and that was a rebound from a penalty, his champions league goals came vs young Boys. He has 3 assists in the last 17 Premier League games and never ever dominates a game This is where we disagree. Every time I watch United, he's almost always the best player on the pitch. He was the best player in the World Cup along with Hazard imo, he was sensational. The biggest stage in football, and he led his team to the ultimate prize. This is what I mean by hyperbole, you make him sound like he's Jeff Hendricks or something. He has a swagger because he's been the best midfielder in the world for the last 4/5 years. I've been discussing with my Spurs supporting brother what they need to push on to the next level. A top class center midfidler is probably their number 1 priority. When we try to think of one, there's really no better candidate than Paul Pogba. Who's really better than him right now? Certainly nobody in the Premier League. Only his compatriot Kante is on his level. So how could he be bang average? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I do think there is a problem in their dressing room, but i still think OGS is the wrong manager to take them forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Keyblade said: This is where we disagree. Every time I watch United, he's almost always the best player on the pitch. He was the best player in the World Cup along with Hazard imo, he was sensational. The biggest stage in football, and he led his team to the ultimate prize. This is what I mean by hyperbole, you make him sound like he's Jeff Hendricks or something. He has a swagger because he's been the best midfielder in the world for the last 4/5 years. I've been discussing with my Spurs supporting brother what they need to push on to the next level. A top class center midfidler is probably their number 1 priority. When we try to think of one, there's really no better candidate than Paul Pogba. Who's really better than him right now? Certainly nobody in the Premier League. Only his compatriot Kante is on his level. So how could he be bang average? David Silva might be 33/34 but much better than Pogba, De Bruyne has been playing deep a lot too. Fabinho, Kante, are all better centre midfielders than Pogba as well. No question he has talent, the issue is application but even on his best day isnt as good as them players. No surprise United best performance in recent weeks he was suspended Edited April 23, 2019 by Zatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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