chrisp65 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 By pull their finger out their arse, do you mean tell the UK we have to have our border controls in the UK, not France? All France has to do to make this go away is tell the UK to do their passport checks in Dover. That's why you won't hear May, Osbourne or Cameron give the French a full on bollocking. That's also why that rabble rouser UKIP bloke is happy to mouth off without thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I dont get why the french wont pull the finger out of their arse on this .....did I read somewhere they have asked the uk to go over and build some control fences and pay for some of the cost of policing ?Wasn't it the UK that effectively moved the 'border' from Dover/Folkestone to Calais? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 rumours that I can be alone in a room and still have an argument are greatly exaggerated you know There's only one person to blame for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm fascinated that with media reporting thousands and thousands of people storming the tunnel night after night, we only ever get pictures of a few dozen. They just did it now on the local South East news, lots of stuff about local business suffering, talk of 'up to' 3,000 immigrants storming the tunnel. All said over pictures of what I'd estimate to be between 20 to 30 people running across a field. Where are the other 2,970? I'm sure it's not totally fabricated, but we can get pictures out of Syria, pictures came off Everest within an hour of the avalanche. Calais, no pictures of the reported story of something that's been happening night after night. As for why they all want to come here. Taking the high number of 3,000 that is actually less than 2% of approx 160,000 that have entered europe so far this year. 2% is not a lot by any stretch. Still very serious, but we are not at the middle of this story. Every story has to be a sensational panic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 It may well be thousands in dribs and drabs (or rampaging hordes!!!!!!!!!) over the night (the success percentage looks like it is incredibly low). I'm quite sure that the situation in and around Calais is not the same as when I used to go and scam my way over on a 'return' ferry journey and then wander out to the roundabout at the entrance to the autoroute to hitch to the midi. I'd guess it's really grim for the locals of Calais and grim also for the people who are willing to dice with death to try and cling on to vehicles/trains just to get to the UK to have better prospects of a life than they may have or have had. Don't ask me what to do about it all - unless you want me to tell you that I don't believe in borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm fascinated that with media reporting thousands and thousands of people storming the tunnel night after night, we only ever get pictures of a few dozen. They just did it now on the local South East news, lots of stuff about local business suffering, talk of 'up to' 3,000 immigrants storming the tunnel. All said over pictures of what I'd estimate to be between 20 to 30 people running across a field. Where are the other 2,970? I'm sure it's not totally fabricated, but we can get pictures out of Syria, pictures came off Everest within an hour of the avalanche. Calais, no pictures of the reported story of something that's been happening night after night. As for why they all want to come here. Taking the high number of 3,000 that is actually less than 2% of approx 160,000 that have entered europe so far this year. 2% is not a lot by any stretch. Still very serious, but we are not at the middle of this story. Every story has to be a sensational panic. Maybe we will get the pictures via Twitter in 7 years time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 It may well be thousands in dribs and drabs (or rampaging hordes!!!!!!!!!) over the night (the success percentage looks like it is incredibly low). I'm quite sure that the situation in and around Calais is not the same as when I used to go and scam my way over on a 'return' ferry journey and then wander out to the roundabout at the entrance to the autoroute to hitch to the midi. I'd guess it's really grim for the locals of Calais and grim also for the people who are willing to dice with death to try and cling on to vehicles/trains just to get to the UK to have better prospects of a life than they may have or have had. Don't ask me what to do about it all - unless you want me to tell you that I don't believe in borders. Now we've go the players we need from the French league I favour a tactical nuke on France to end this problem once and for all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2015 Have to say, I do find the complete outrage at one animal being killed slightly hilarious considering it's mostly coming from people who contribute to thousands of animals being killed daily, without giving them a single thought. It seems only some animals deserve to live huh... Vegetarians are like; "Hey, let's just not kill any animals?" Carnivores are like "OMG DONT KILL THE LION!!! ...... Oh but look there's a pig, it's life doesn't matter, lets slaughter it and eat it!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted July 30, 2015 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Have to say, I do find the complete outrage at one animal being killed slightly hilarious considering it's mostly coming from people who contribute to thousands of animals being killed daily, without giving them a single thought. It seems only some animals deserve to live huh... Vegetarians are like; "Hey, let's just not kill any animals?" Carnivores are like "OMG DONT KILL THE LION!!! ...... Oh but look there's a pig, it's life doesn't matter, lets slaughter it and eat it!" That's exactly the point though isn't it. One animal is killed humanely and used for food. The other one is running free, lured out of where he's legally not allowed to be killed, shot by a bow and arrow, suffers for two days before being found and decapitated just for the trophy. A trophy that the hunter can't take back to the US, so really it's just for a photograph and to say he's done it. They don't need the animal for food. It's not the shooting that the hunter enjoys, otherwise he'd go to an archery range or a gun range. It's the thrill of killing. There's a huge difference between an animal being killed for food and one being tortured and killed just for the fun of it. I do agree that the outrage over this one specific incident is a bit bandwagon-ny given it happens all the time. But the difference between that lion being killed and a pig being killed for food is clear. Edited July 30, 2015 by Stevo985 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The two things are not the same Pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Have to say, I do find the complete outrage at one animal being killed slightly hilarious considering it's mostly coming from people who contribute to thousands of animals being killed daily, without giving them a single thought. It seems only some animals deserve to live huh... Vegetarians are like; "Hey, let's just not kill any animals?" Carnivores are like "OMG DONT KILL THE LION!!! ...... Oh but look there's a pig, it's life doesn't matter, lets slaughter it and eat it!" That's exactly the point though isn't it. One animal is killed humanely and used for food. The other one is running free, lured out of where he's legally not allowed to be killed, shot by a bow and arrow, suffers for two days before being found and decapitated just for the trophy. A trophy that the hunter can't take back to the US, so really it's just for a photograph and to say he's done it. They don't need the animal for food. It's not the shooting that the hunter enjoys, otherwise he'd go to an archery range or a gun range. It's the thrill of killing. There's a huge difference between an animal being killed for food and one being tortured and killed just for the fun of it. I do agree that the outrage over this one specific incident is a bit bandwagon-ny given it happens all the time. But the difference between that lion being killed and a pig being killed for food is clear. I agree, the man is a disgrace, I hope some animal rights loon throws acid in his face in front of his wife and kids. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2015 Why? Why is one animals life more important than the other? Why does the method of death matter? I'm sure there's lots of farmed animals which have a pretty rough deal, but no one gives a **** about that? Whether it's killed for a "trophy" or killed for food it's still unnecessary and is stemmed from human greed. Guess that's where our opinions differ, to me, its no different. I do see your point of view on it, but our attitudes towards animals being killed for food are vastly different. To me, its just as unacceptable as trophy killing. Meh, pointless argument really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Why? Why is one animals life more important than the other? Why does the method of death matter? I'm sure there's lots of farmed animals which have a pretty rough deal, but no one gives a **** about that? Whether it's killed for a "trophy" or killed for food it's still unnecessary and is stemmed from human greed. Guess that's where our opinions differ, to me, its no different. I do see your point of view on it, but our attitudes towards animals being killed for food are vastly different. To me, its just as unacceptable as trophy killing. Meh, pointless argument really People do give a **** about farm animals that are given a rough deal. That's why people prefer stuff like free range eggs/chicken, because the animals live a good life while they're alive and they're killed humanely when they are used for food. "Why does the method of death matter?" Why on earth DOESN'T it matter? Can you not see the difference between killing an animal quick and painlessly, and killing an animal by essentially torturing it for 2 days before finally finishing it off? I know how I'd prefer to go. I get it if you're against killing animals for food. I understand that point of view and that you can see both trophy killing and food killing as wrong. But surely you can understand that killing something painlessly because it's being used for food is a hell of a lot more humane than just killing something for the hell of it. Both can be wrong, but one can be MORE wrong than the other. Edited July 30, 2015 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Why? Why is one animals life more important than the other? Why does the method of death matter? I'm sure there's lots of farmed animals which have a pretty rough deal, but no one gives a **** about that? Whether it's killed for a "trophy" or killed for food it's still unnecessary and is stemmed from human greed. Guess that's where our opinions differ, to me, its no different. I do see your point of view on it, but our attitudes towards animals being killed for food are vastly different. To me, its just as unacceptable as trophy killing. Meh, pointless argument really Humans are naturally omnivorous. You're welcome to consider eating meat immoral, if you so choose, but it isn't 'greedy' per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'd consider the average Westerner's attitude toward meat to be beyond 'greedy'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I don't know really. I just don't think either are "humane" at all. Yeah it's completely shitty what happened to that lion and I get that. But it doesn't make what happens to other animals any less shitty. Its all shitty. The world is shitty Nah in all seriousness I understand your point of view, my original point was that I don't understand how people can be so outraged by the killing of a lion but be so perfectly okay and emotionless with the deaths of many other animals providing its "food". That's the thing that truly baffles me. I can't seperate crappy feeling of killing an animal for food or killing an animal for a trophy, they both really suck. I can't even feel angry about this lion because well, animals die every day and it makes me sad. I just can't grasp how others can be so outraged at this, but perfectly fine with everything else. It doesn't compute in my head. I'm not trying to turn this into an "eating meat is wrong" debate. You can all do whatever you like and I really don't care. Its just more of a dig at social media's reaction to the lion which I feel has a taint of hypocrisy about it all. Edited July 30, 2015 by PieFacE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The two things are not the same Pie. Indeed they are not the same. Though both can go into a pie. Mmmmm. Lion pie .... FWIW, I think this Dentist of Death deserves all the shit that coming his way, and then some. Grade A rocket polisher. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2015 People putting chants in anything other than the chants thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 30, 2015 Administrator Share Posted July 30, 2015 People who still can't embed Youtube links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Why? Why is one animals life more important than the other? Why does the method of death matter? I'm sure there's lots of farmed animals which have a pretty rough deal, but no one gives a **** about that? Whether it's killed for a "trophy" or killed for food it's still unnecessary and is stemmed from human greed. Guess that's where our opinions differ, to me, its no different. I do see your point of view on it, but our attitudes towards animals being killed for food are vastly different. To me, its just as unacceptable as trophy killing. Meh, pointless argument really How rare are pigs and cows? A hundred years ago it's estimated that there were around 200,000 to 250,000 lions in Africa. Today, the estimate is 35,000. It's been suggested that the trend means they'll be extinct in our lifetime. It's predominantly down to our need for land, from Jaguars, Leopards, Lions, Rhinos and Tigers they are all suffering due to our desire to grow cattle for burgers. If you're ok with that, then no problem. Cows, pigs and chickens are not in danger of extinction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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