Chop chop! Lets all gawp at Newcastle (again)

[The_Steve]

52 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Paper talk of Dan Ashworth imminently off to Utd. For a sporting director to go so soon into a new major moneybags project, surely that's kind of a bad signal for the club? Massive overhaul for them this summer - possibly on a tight budget - new DoF, new manager a possibility, and lots of their best players being hunted by other clubs. It's quite some way off what was expected. 

Ashworth is on gardening leave still so I assume the deal with Utd occurred awhile back. It’s going to be a hard summer for them with injuries and complying with FFP. 

[Kiwivillan]

3 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Ashworth is on gardening leave still so I assume the deal with Utd occurred awhile back. It’s going to be a hard summer for them with injuries and complying with FFP. 

Sure was mentioned as done deal on Goldbridge channel months ago

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

Paper talk of Dan Ashworth imminently off to Utd. For a sporting director to go so soon into a new major moneybags project, surely that's kind of a bad signal for the club? Massive overhaul for them this summer - possibly on a tight budget - new DoF, new manager a possibility, and lots of their best players being hunted by other clubs. It's quite some way off what was expected. 

I think more it just shows the hierarchy of English football still exists 

Fans can wheel out all they like about going places and teams in decline or the project or even money but the reality is the big clubs are still the big clubs and the big 6 have sway that even Newcastles "billions" doesn't just like Newcastle have more sway than Brighton 

[The_Steve]

6 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I think more it just shows the hierarchy of English football still exists 

Fans can wheel out all they like about going places and teams in decline or the project or even money but the reality is the big clubs are still the big clubs and the big 6 have sway that even Newcastles "billions" doesn't just like Newcastle have more sway than Brighton 

The real test is how they replace Isak or Bruno G. One of those names will be sold, they heavily gambled and whilst they got CL it wasn’t the magic solution to their FFP issues. They’ve probably hit their ceiling with Howe. They won't progress again to the same heights I don't think. 

[KAZZAM]

Newky probably better off selling Isaak to Arsenal to solve FFP. 

Or I mean it's more likely than finding someone who's gonna buy Bruno G for stupid money. 

[villa4europe]

10 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

The real test is how they replace Isak or Bruno G. One of those names will be sold, they heavily gambled and whilst they got CL it wasn’t the magic solution to their FFP issues. They’ve probably hit their ceiling with Howe. They won't progress again to the same heights I don't think. 

nor me, its still pretty impressive how they rode the wave of good will around them, punched massively above their weight, now its died down they need fresh blood

they'll have a couple of years 10th to 6th me thinks

[bobzy]

Not a chance they sell Isak (yet) IMO.

Guimaraes is probably the player they'd get decent money for.  If they could sell him and bring in, say, Onana I don't think they'd be much worse off football-wise.

[The_Steve]

5 minutes ago, KAZZAM said:

Newky probably better off selling Isaak to Arsenal to solve FFP. 

Or I mean it's more likely than finding someone who's gonna buy Bruno G for stupid money. 

PSG were strongly rumoured amid talk of a £99m release clause. But it’s probably all speculation. 

[The_Steve]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

nor me, its still pretty impressive how they rode the wave of good will around them, punched massively above their weight, now its died down they need fresh blood

they'll have a couple of years 10th to 6th me thinks

Kudos to them as it shows how much momentum can carry a team. They are on their day very difficult to play against but they still have a very thin squad. Spending over £400m wasn't going to fix that. I think they will be be top 8 to 10 moving forward, but it depends how they keep other big names and recruit. I don't see them struggling as much as say Brighton did. 

[villa4europe]

29 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Kudos to them as it shows how much momentum can carry a team. They are on their day very difficult to play against but they still have a very thin squad. Spending over £400m wasn't going to fix that. I think they will be be top 8 to 10 moving forward, but it depends how they keep other big names and recruit. I don't see them struggling as much as say Brighton did. 

whats interesting about them for me is that they've seemingly chosen a transfer policy of adding big value signature pieces one at a time rather than trying to buy a squad, it feels like we have had way more player turnover than they have

for all the stick that the likes of trez and nakamba get as we went on our journey to me it still looks better than having to rely on longstaff and a 17 year old as your central midfielders, there's an argument to be had that they've not done enough shopping in the £15-20m market because they favoured players at £30m+

newcastle still have players from the bruce relegation bound team kicking about

[The_Steve]

8 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

whats interesting about them for me is that they've seemingly chosen a transfer policy of adding big value signature pieces one at a time rather than trying to buy a squad, it feels like we have had way more player turnover than they have

for all the stick that the likes of trez and nakamba get as we went on our journey to me it still looks better than having to rely on longstaff and a 17 year old as your central midfielders, there's an argument to be had that they've not done enough shopping in the £15-20m market because they favoured players at £30m+

newcastle still have players from the bruce relegation bound team kicking about

They made what are on paper smarter signings like Barnes - but just 4 goals in 14 and two assists is a poor return given his injury issues. 
 

Livramento is probably their best young signing. Bags of potential and kept himself fit so far.

They've been very lucky that a Saudi team came in for ASM when they did to help balance the books. They've just not been able to sell talent of note beyond him and Chris Wood for the most part. Just not a sustainable model.

Modern MON thinking transfer wise. Short termism. 

 

[MrBlack]

19 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

They've been very lucky that a Saudi team came in for ASM when they did to help balance the books. They've just not been able to sell talent of note beyond him and Chris Wood for the most part. Just not a sustainable model.

Modern MON thinking transfer wise. Short termism

 

I assure you there was zero luck involved in that transaction. 

Edited April 10 by MrBlack

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, The_Steve said:

The real test is how they replace Isak or Bruno G. One of those names will be sold, they heavily gambled and whilst they got CL it wasn’t the magic solution to their FFP issues. They’ve probably hit their ceiling with Howe. They won't progress again to the same heights I don't think. 

Change of manager is the next step I suspect. Howe done very well overall but time is creeping nearer where they'll go for a big name to attract bigger names I suspect.

Maybe a bit too early this season but I presume they want to attract a Tuchel/Nagalsmann manager there eventually so all about timing.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

whats interesting about them for me is that they've seemingly chosen a transfer policy of adding big value signature pieces one at a time rather than trying to buy a squad, it feels like we have had way more player turnover than they have

for all the stick that the likes of trez and nakamba get as we went on our journey to me it still looks better than having to rely on longstaff and a 17 year old as your central midfielders, there's an argument to be had that they've not done enough shopping in the £15-20m market because they favoured players at £30m+

newcastle still have players from the bruce relegation bound team kicking about

Their central midfielders heading into this season would've been Guimaraes, Tonali and Joelinton with Longstaff and Willock (and Miley, since I guess he came through fairly unexpectedly?) as backup.  I don't think that's too bad... but obviously we know what happened to Tonali and Joelinton has been out injured for a while.

I imagine they'd look to move on some of the fringe players who aren't really needed anymore (Almiron, Murphy, Targett) as well as a bigger name for dolla (probably Guimaraes) and then invest in 4 or 5 players.  Hall and Livramento are decent young players, Burn does a job and then they need another central defender (possibly 2) and maybe 2 central midfielders.

It doesn't feel like they're a million miles away at all IMO.

Edited April 10 by bobzy

[The_Steve]

Joelinton might well be off in the summer too it seems. They need someone not called Howe to oversee the rebuild. 

[GlobalVillan]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

Not a chance they sell Isak (yet) IMO.

Guimaraes is probably the player they'd get decent money for.  If they could sell him and bring in, say, Onana I don't think they'd be much worse off football-wise.

I wouldn't bank on that.

[bobzy]

7 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said:

I wouldn't bank on that.

I wouldn’t bank on it - but having a top striker is a huge difference in the football world, whereas the midfield is more… competitive in the market.

Isak cost, what, £20m more than Guimaraes too. Does Isak go for £20m more than they could get for Guimaraes now and could they replace him as “easily” as they could Guimaraes? I don’t think so. And they’re only selling either for FFP reasons, surely. 

[VillaJ100]

I'm sure they'll sack off all their dross to Saudi for way over the odds in summer

[GlobalVillan]

10 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I wouldn’t bank on it - but having a top striker is a huge difference in the football world, whereas the midfield is more… competitive in the market.

Isak cost, what, £20m more than Guimaraes too. Does Isak go for £20m more than they could get for Guimaraes now and could they replace him as “easily” as they could Guimaraes? I don’t think so. And they’re only selling either for FFP reasons, surely. 

They have FFP issues but if they sold Guimaraes for a big fee and bought a replacement (someone like Ramsey* just as an example) for 20-30 mil less, it would seriously help their position.

They will command a big fee for Isak and and there will be a couple of disproportionately high earning players leaving as well. 

It's all about juggling the books and most PL clubs are facing the same issues. Us included.

*Don't want to get into a Ramsey debate, just used as an example as they have ben after him for over a year now.

Edited April 10 by GlobalVillan

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, GlobalVillan said:

They have FFP issues but if they sold Guimaraes for a big fee and bought a replacement (someone like Ramsey just as an example) for 20-30 mil less, it would seriously help their position.

They will command a big fee for Isak and and there will be a couple of disproportionately high earning players leaving as well. 

It's all about juggling the books and most PL clubs are facing the same issues. Us included.

I agree - but I don't think either Newcastle or us are about to sell of two of our respective star players.  One might "need" to go, but surely not more than that.  And given the relative ease in replacing Guimaraes rather than Isak (plus the aforementioned monetary aspect) I'd assume they plan on keeping the latter moreso than the former.