Drugs

[CVByrne]

I think that is true LondonLax, especially medically. As I said earlier there have been many trials and very productive ones with use of MDMA for depression as it makes people open up and talk more about problems etc..

 

While from what I've read it's no more harmful than any number of legal prescription drugs. So it begs the question, why do drug dealers and organised crime make billions off this drug when mixed up in concoctions to make "Ecstacy"? 

 

The answer of course is political and not medical.

[CVByrne]

Not sure about the merits of prescribing Ecstaxy for depression, the come downs are truly appalling. Not to mention it can leave you 'wired' for a couple of days, thus raising the question of safety. 

 

I've since found that a jog in the morning, reading a book in the afternoon and peppermint tea to be a far better way of dealing with your mind's troubles.

 

 

Two things here, MDMA is not Ecstacy. It is meant to be the main active drug in Ecstacy though. But Speed and other such cheaper to make drugs are what is actually in the majority of pills. While it is also used to cut "MDMA" bought itself.

 

Pure MDMA actually does not have these big come downs as people will associate with using the cut versions of it they buy from drug dealers. So your idea of it's effects are not accurate when compared to a medicinal use of it with patients.

 

As for your methods of dealing with troubles, it's great you have a safe and effective method of dealing with them. I agree regular exercise especially running is amazing in its effects.

 

But for people who it isn't effective....

[CVByrne]

 

I think MDMA is much safer than alcohol, both for your body and for society. Unfortunately MDMA came about at a time when new drugs are banned if not much is known about them whilst alcohol has been with us for thousands of years.

 

do you really believe mdma is safer than alcohol? really?

 

 

 

I believe what medical professionals tell me in academic papers. So yes MDMA is a safe drug.

 

I do not believe buying all kinds of mixed up illegal drug concotions labled as MDMA from criminals is. Alcohol is sold professional and accountable companies under licence. I would deem it safer than buying shady moonshine etc.. is it was illegal and sold by criminals.

 

So if MDMA was sold legally by licence I wouldn't fear it as I've read medical reports on its effects. 

[Shillzz]

 

Not sure about the merits of prescribing Ecstaxy for depression, the come downs are truly appalling. Not to mention it can leave you 'wired' for a couple of days, thus raising the question of safety. 

 

I've since found that a jog in the morning, reading a book in the afternoon and peppermint tea to be a far better way of dealing with your mind's troubles.

 

 

Two things here, MDMA is not Ecstacy. It is meant to be the main active drug in Ecstacy though. But Speed and other such cheaper to make drugs are what is actually in the majority of pills. While it is also used to cut "MDMA" bought itself.

 

Pure MDMA actually does not have these big come downs as people will associate with using the cut versions of it they buy from drug dealers. So your idea of it's effects are not accurate when compared to a medicinal use of it with patients.

 

As for your methods of dealing with troubles, it's great you have a safe and effective method of dealing with them. I agree regular exercise especially running is amazing in its effects.

 

But for people who it isn't effective....

 

 

Absolutely, I was more responding to those who were advocating ecstacy as a way of dealing with depression. From my own experience, I couldn't imagine anything more counter-productive. It was the come downs that made me completely and utterly wipe any form of drug use from my life.

 

Though I know little of MDMA, or MUD as people 'round ere call it. So i'll take your word for it.

[CVByrne]

My point is, if MDMA was just another prescription drug people would immediately view it completely differently. But as it first came to public view as a recreational drug it swiftly got made illegal. But it seems that it has a strong positive use as an antidepressant and also in therapy. So if prescribed by a doctor and given set dosage to be taken will it harm a person?

 

Would then abuse of this drug cause more harm than abuse of any number of other prescription drugs? If not then why not deal a hammer blow to organised crime by bringing it into the controlled environment? 

 

I think these kind of questions should be asked without prejudice against it as it's currently labelled "illegal drug" and as such has to be bad.

 

We need changes as the war on drugs is a shambolic failure. 

[coda]

I've seen people have wild hallucinations on MDMA. The brain is a complex thing and people's biochemical make up can give them different experiences.

[LondonLax]

I've seen people have wild hallucinations on MDMA. The brain is a complex thing and people's biochemical make up can give them different experiences.

 

 

There is a good chance it wasn't just MDMA though.

 

The trouble with taking illegally made substances is that there are no government standards in place and you can't be sure you are getting what you think you are getting.

[coda]

You can buy kits to identify substances and it was MDMA, they reckon.

[LondonLax]

 

 

I think MDMA is much safer than alcohol, both for your body and for society. Unfortunately MDMA came about at a time when new drugs are banned if not much is known about them whilst alcohol has been with us for thousands of years.

 

do you really believe mdma is safer than alcohol? really?

 

 

 

I believe what medical professionals tell me in academic papers. So yes MDMA is a safe drug.

 

I do not believe buying all kinds of mixed up illegal drug concotions labled as MDMA from criminals is. Alcohol is sold professional and accountable companies under licence. I would deem it safer than buying shady moonshine etc.. is it was illegal and sold by criminals.

 

So if MDMA was sold legally by licence I wouldn't fear it as I've read medical reports on its effects. 

 

 

 

Yes, if you took all the different recreational drugs and lined them up from most harmful (heroin perhaps?) to least harmful (caffine?) then MDMA would be on the safer side of the scale compared with alcohol and tobacco. There was a pretty famous government report a few year back done by professor David Nutt which backed this up.

 

There has been a fair bit of medical research done now as MDMA has been in common use for 30 years or so and the long term affects of regular use place it as a safer drug than the long term affects of smoking or regular heavy drinking.  

[LondonLax]

You can buy kits to identify substances and it was MDMA, they reckon.

 

Even if it was a pure form of the drug and your friend had a weird reaction, is that a reson to ban everyone else from being able to use it if they wished? 

 

We don't ban alcohol even if someone gets drunk and passes out or even if they get into their car and kill a person whilst intoxicated. It seems crazy to go down the Saudi Arabia route and ban people from being allowed to drink yet that's what we do with other substances.

[tomaspg]

what those studys dont take in mind is the behaviour of people, just the drug it self. Heroin can be administered safely without much risk to your health, but do you think the drug user stick to the methods and ammounts that would keep it safe?

 

and saying that something is safe in a medical sense doesnt mean it would be safe in the hands of the public, the logic of legalizing mdma because it can be used safely makes as much sense as legalising morfine for recreational use just because its safe to use in a hospital.

 

and i really dont buy the gateway argument ive seen once or twice in this thread. the people who go on to heavier drugs usually does it because of a different factor rather than recreational, in my opinion.

talking about studies heres one that evaluates the gateway theory http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20060657?itool=Email.EmailReport.Pubmed_ReportSelector.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=3

 

ps. i mainly smoke weed, but had a 5 year period where i did every drug a man can put his hands on

[AVFCforever1991]

 

 

A figure using data from a paper in the journal, The Lancet ranking the relative negative effects of different drugs. The paper was written by Nutt and included in his controversial lecture

 

Edited June 4, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[BOF]

I take it Mr. Mackey has already been here to tell you about drugs.

[CVByrne]

I've seen people have wild hallucinations on MDMA. The brain is a complex thing and people's biochemical make up can give them different experiences.

 

 

Again, I say how do you know it's MDMA? The drug dealer told the person it was 100% pure MDMA. 

 

Exactly. All these drugs people buy are concoctions and who knows what's in them. 

[CVByrne]

I'm not saying that legalising some drugs means people should take them, that they are fine and harmless. What I'm saying is that legal drugs can do as much if not more harm when abused also. All manner of prescription drugs can give harmful effects when abused. What I'm saying is people already have easy access to drugs like ecstacy, I've been offered it innumeral times in clubs. So if I want to go take it I can easily get it. No problem, it's sold in the places people want to take it in anyway.

 

What I'm saying is we can accept this reality as a reality. People can get access to drugs easily enough. So we should now take control of that away from organised crime and into a taxation and professionally controlled environment. Let it be over the counter sold with health warning etc.. with leaflets and exact dosages on the box. the money now flows into government hands and not criminals. 

 

This issue is not to do with health problems of drugs. It's to do with a new approach on tackling crime and drug related problems.

[LondonLax]

Exactly. For a number of drugs society would be overall better off if they were legal.

[coda]

 

You can buy kits to identify substances and it was MDMA, they reckon.

 

Even if it was a pure form of the drug and your friend had a weird reaction, is that a reson to ban everyone else from being able to use it if they wished? 

 

 

I'm not suggesting I agree with banning anything, quite the opposite.

[CVByrne]

Exactly. For a number of drugs society would be overall better off if they were legal.

 

 

That's my point. I have friends who take pills in clubs and have friends who get stoned, (all in moderation). But it's always alcohol that is the drug that leads to the most trouble. So I view the other two as less harmful to society and people cause me no harm or problems when on them. So I can't see why anyone would fear them. As such they should be taken out of the hands of murderous criminals and into the control of government, taxed heavily like alcohol and tobacco and have that money put to good use. While also focussing police resources on the remaining more socially harmful drugs like crack and heroin.

Edited June 4, 2013 by CVByrne

[vandaq]

MDMA is not something you can use often anyway as it drains your serotonin levels which is not good at all in the long run. Besides, even if you take it you will have to build that up again to get the same effect. Taking MDMA several times a week is a really bad idea. And you will never get the same buzz as you did the first time. If you wait around 2 weeks(i think its around that) then you will get back too more normal serotonin levels. Either way, mdma should not be used often at all.

[CVByrne]

Well whatever people want to do with their MDMA doesn't really matter to me or most people as when people are high on it they are far less likely to cause trouble or harm to others than if they were on alcohol.