lexicon Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Do they 'know how to run businesses'? Neither of them have any prior experience of their current roles. They have a lot of relevant experience, though - Fox especially. It's not like he's hired somebody who was part-time at Burger King to oversee everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 21 hours ago, rodders0223 said: Why the hell did we sell James Collins for peanuts. Because we're effing awful when it comes to transfer negotiations. Everton just got £8.5M for Naismith, bear in mind that they paid nothing for him and he couldn't even get into their team this season....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 This new chairman is about as inspiring as nose hair. Another pointless appointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 25 minutes ago, lexicon said: They have a lot of relevant experience, though - Fox especially. It's not like he's hired somebody who was part-time at Burger King to oversee everything. No, you're right, it's not like hiring someone who was part-time at Burger King. But 'being around people in charge of running companies' isn't exactly the same as running them yourself. I think the criticism of Lerner's corporate hires - that they have all needed to 'learn on the job', to some extent - is a valid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Worse than Ellis. I know some will disagree, they do every time, but he is worse and the words of Fox tell you why. In an era when finances for football were higher than ever we stood still. We did not try and capitalize on that we put nothing in place we stood still and as a result other clubs are better placed than us. Lerner, supposed to be a better owner / person / businessman than Ellis fared worse. No doubt people will come on here and say Ellis did the same. Sure we stood still under Ellis, sure we could have been Arsenal is what people will say and to an extent I agree. However, the football climate was far far more richer under Lerner and he put nothing not one thing in place which now makes the club undesirable. We were not undesirable under Ellis. Worse than Ellis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 If Lerner wants to get rid of the club because he has zero interest in running it why doesnt he refloat it on the stock exchange at a price he could get his money back and be done with it. I assume a lot of fans would like to be shareholders again in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Richard said: Worse than Ellis. I know some will disagree, they do every time, but he is worse and the words of Fox tell you why. In an era when finances for football were higher than ever we stood still. We did not try and capitalize on that we put nothing in place we stood still and as a result other clubs are better placed than us. Lerner, supposed to be a better owner / person / businessman than Ellis fared worse. No doubt people will come on here and say Ellis did the same. Sure we stood still under Ellis, sure we could have been Arsenal is what people will say and to an extent I agree. However, the football climate was far far more richer under Lerner and he put nothing not one thing in place which now makes the club undesirable. We were not undesirable under Ellis. Worse than Ellis. Well, we almost did 'a Leeds' under Lerner. And are now on course for more cuts than a hairdressers. So I'm with you on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 14 hours ago, avfc1982 said: The fans' mood reflects where the club is at, and these last 5 years have been torture without the merest hint of light at the end of the tunnel. and vica versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Richard said: Worse than Ellis. I know some will disagree, they do every time, but he is worse and the words of Fox tell you why. In an era when finances for football were higher than ever we stood still. We did not try and capitalize on that we put nothing in place we stood still and as a result other clubs are better placed than us. Lerner, supposed to be a better owner / person / businessman than Ellis fared worse. No doubt people will come on here and say Ellis did the same. Sure we stood still under Ellis, sure we could have been Arsenal is what people will say and to an extent I agree. However, the football climate was far far more richer under Lerner and he put nothing not one thing in place which now makes the club undesirable. We were not undesirable under Ellis. Worse than Ellis. The one thing I think most fans assumed is that being American he would be able to market the shit out of the club........................how wrong we were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, mykeyb said: If Lerner wants to get rid of the club because he has zero interest in running it why doesnt he refloat it on the stock exchange at a price he could get his money back and be done with it. I assume a lot of fans would like to be shareholders again in the club. Lerner answer to people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Richard said: I know some will disagree, they do every time, but he is worse and the words of Fox tell you why. In an era when finances for football were higher than ever we stood still. We did not try and capitalize on that we put nothing in place we stood still and as a result other clubs are better placed than us. Lerner, supposed to be a better owner / person / businessman than Ellis fared worse. No doubt people will come on here and say Ellis did the same. Sure we stood still under Ellis, sure we could have been Arsenal is what people will say and to an extent I agree. However, the football climate was far far more richer under Lerner and he put nothing not one thing in place which now makes the club undesirable. We were not undesirable under Ellis. It is shocking isn't it. I said when the accounts came out after O’Neill walked that it was a massive failing of the club that it could not get income up to a level to be able to sustain having the 6th highest wage bill in the league whilst finishing in the top 6. A club of our size should, if run well, have been able to get income up to a level to sustain such outgoings especially at a time when there were opportunities to be capitalized on. The club took the position that our out goings were too high when in fact they were spot on for the positions we were finishing and it was the fact our income was too low that was the issue. Had we have gotten things right off the pitch we may well have been able to kick on from establishing ourselves in the top 6. Instead we have gone rapidly backwards. It has though taken them almost 6 years to finally acknowledge this. Edited January 22, 2016 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Mark, you will recall my thread at the time basically saying we needed more investment to kick on and if Randy could not afford it he should seek additional investment or move on. Oh what fun I had from posters after making that thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, Richard said: Mark, you will recall my thread at the time basically saying we needed more investment to kick on and if Randy could not afford it he should seek additional investment or move on. Oh what fun I had from posters after making that thread It's not investment that's the major problem though, although it would obviously help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: No, you're right, it's not like hiring someone who was part-time at Burger King. But 'being around people in charge of running companies' isn't exactly the same as running them yourself. I think the criticism of Lerner's corporate hires - that they have all needed to 'learn on the job', to some extent - is a valid one. Who doesn't need to learn on the job though? Every club and business is going to be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 11 minutes ago, Richard said: Mark, you will recall my thread at the time basically saying we needed more investment to kick on and if Randy could not afford it he should seek additional investment or move on. Oh what fun I had from posters after making that thread It wasn't the spending and investment that was the problem, it was the management of the spending and the infrastructure that needed updating. So you were wrong then and you're still harping on about it now at every opportunity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It's not investment that's the major problem though, although it would obviously help. But that's the outcome of the fan's AGM that was definitely wanted. Can we say things to make the fans think that spending money isn't the answer to the problem? If that has been the outcome then it has been a very effective piece of press. I read the transcript and thought it was very interesting and a good read. I'm sure there's an element of truth to what was said about how we stood still while everyone else was making great strides forward to embrace the wealth that was coming into the game, but at the same time you have to look at the effect that the words have had. It has bought them time to do work behind the scenes with seemingly less on an emphasis on the team's result - as if you can only prioritize one or the other - and it impressed upon the fans that Randy has spent a lot of money, and that spending money hasn't worked, so let's not spend money. I'd call that a pretty successful piece of PR, which I guess could be considered an indication of safe hands, provided their main function isn't one of wool pulling and pacification until the club is sold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2016 14 minutes ago, YLN said: But that's the outcome of the fan's AGM that was definitely wanted. Can we say things to make the fans think that spending money isn't the answer to the problem? If that has been the outcome then it has been a very effective piece of press. I read the transcript and thought it was very interesting and a good read. I'm sure there's an element of truth to what was said about how we stood still while everyone else was making great strides forward to embrace the wealth that was coming into the game, but at the same time you have to look at the effect that the words have had. It has bought them time to do work behind the scenes with seemingly less on an emphasis on the team's result - as if you can only prioritize one or the other - and it impressed upon the fans that Randy has spent a lot of money, and that spending money hasn't worked, so let's not spend money. I'd call that a pretty successful piece of PR, which I guess could be considered an indication of safe hands, provided their main function isn't one of wool pulling and pacification until the club is sold. You've missed the mark there by jumping to a conclusion I wasn't getting at. I didn't refer to the AGM in any way shape or form. Our wages are the 10th highest in the league (IIRC, maybe not exact, but it's midtable, basically) We're bottom. That's all you need to know. We knew this before last night's AGM. Is a lack of investment the reason why we're not in the Champions League? Yes, almost certainly. Is a lack of investment the reason we're getting relegated? No, almost certainly not. We haven't spent enough to be a very competitive team. We HAVE spent enough to not be cut adrift at the bottom of the league. Is it all Lerner's fault? Yeah, pretty much. But not because of the money he has or hasn't put in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 RL is/was/and will always be useless at running AVFC. now we have TF sacked Lambert just in time 2 ways to see this negatively - if he had the power and nearly left it too late positively - knew at a certain point lambert had to go. RL eventually caved in to TF. appointed TS we survived neg - luck pos - judgement sacking TS neg - waited too long should have seen it coming Pos - got rid -> appointed RG RG - remains to be seen SH - remains to be seen -> good luck Remi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Taking the club from the pinnacle of Europe to relegation isn't even close to what Lerner has done. All this talk about how football is rich means nothing compared to the plentiful opportunities we missed under Ellis. Football was easier back then: you could win the title with a decent managerial appointment coupled with some shrewd signings. The club we support today, instead of being thought of in the same light as Liverpool or United, is the exact result of Ellis turning up and ruining what could have been, whilst at the same time never moving us on to the next level when it was MUCH cheaper and easier to do so. We're likely to get relegated this season, but I daren't even think where we would be now if Ellis stuck to his promise of only leaving the club in a box. And which tit sold to the fool we have today when he had other offers on the table!? (If the rumours back them of Robert Kraft being interested are true, then well done Doug - you could've sold to a bloke who created an NFL dynasty, one with a genuine track record in sports club ownership, but you sold to Randy **** Lerner.) Edited January 22, 2016 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 hour ago, lexicon said: It wasn't the spending and investment that was the problem, it was the management of the spending and the infrastructure that needed updating. So you were wrong then and you're still harping on about it now at every opportunity. Not sure which bit of Tom Fox's comments you disagree with then Lex as he himself said we didnt have enough cash at the time and failed to move on because of it and in order to get it. Top 6 outgoings for top 6 finishes yet we couldnt afford it it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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