Rovers13 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 When Heskey was upfront did anyone argue that's the best we can expect so let's be realistic and just accept it? When Mcleish was manager did anyone argue that we might as well be realistic and accept the job he was doing? Yet with the owner people are actually arguing that we should just accept the kind of club we've become. What is it about him that makes this happen? This is the Lambert thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Big_John_10 Posted November 4, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted November 4, 2013 He hasnt **** over the fans or gotten us into debt What? He hired Mcleish, his cost cutting and decision making has nearly sent us down the last 2 seasons and if I'm not mistaken do we not have debts owed to him? If that's not **** over fans and getting us into debt what is? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) You can put a simple wage-cap in place without interfering in the manager's dealings can't you? You can put a simple wage-cap in place without interfering in the manager's dealings can't you? isn't that exactly what Doug Ellis did....if the players signed had of been of merchantable quality in the first place,we wouldn't be having this conversation today. Everton are a good comparison how they have spent much better than us. Edited November 4, 2013 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) I think the problem is not just the players that were signed, but also the deals they were on. 45k for Beye, 60k(?) for Heskey and that 5 year 50k a year deal for a 35 year old GIven are just three in a long list. Edited November 4, 2013 by Mantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I think the problem is not just the players that were signed, but also the deals they were on. 45k for Beye, 60k(?) for Heskey and that 5 year 50k a year deal for a 35 year old GIven are just three in a long list. This is a problem with Mon, Houllier and somewhat lerner, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I think the problem is not just the players that were signed, but also the deals they were on. 45k for Beye, 60k(?) for Heskey and that 5 year 50k a year deal for a 35 year old GIven are just three in a long list. I think the problem is not just the players that were signed, but also the deals they were on. 45k for Beye, 60k(?) for Heskey and that 5 year 50k a year deal for a 35 year old GIven are just three in a long list. but isn't it related?... if we had of been a regular European campaigner, and filling the stadium every week with solid home performances, the wages paid out might have been sustainable....but the wages paid out along with the fees was not sustainable because most of the players were not good enough...lets face it 5 or 6 players got us to 6-6-6 the rest was iffy, about 35-40 players was signed below par. Things like Davies in for 10m and cahill out for 5 mill was an example of poor decision making and that wasn't Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) I think the problem is not just the players that were signed, but also the deals they were on. 45k for Beye, 60k(?) for Heskey and that 5 year 50k a year deal for a 35 year old GIven are just three in a long list. This is a problem with Mon, Houllier and somewhat lerner, right? And McLeish but yeah, pretty much. I don't understand the obsession with finding a single person to blame (seems to be Lerner in a lot of cases) when in reality there have been a number of factors. Edited November 4, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSepulchrave Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 It does seem like Lambert teams thrive on having nothing to lose. When he took Norwich up, no one expected them to even put up that much of fight before going back down. But he got his team playing well and winning games and finishing in a respectable league position. Last season we hit terrific form when, for all intents and purposes, we looked doomed. We had nothing to lose, really, save for going for it. This would also account for weaker showings at home, where we are meant to be the ones in charge, and struggles against Newcastle, Hull and West Ham. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villianusa Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 When it comes down to it it's the manager and the players who are to blame. Randy may have pulled in the purse strings that may of got us to the top four but in the end it's what happens on the pitch that counts. I watch all but one game this season (on TV) and we don't look like a team that knows what it's doing. I mentioned in an earlier post that we have the 2nd worst possession stats in the league but we also look void of ideas. For those who are defending Lambert how can that be possibly be any ones fault but his? He is the one who coaches the team, buys the players, picks the formation and sets the pattern of player. The players are lost because no one is leading, We are a very poor team now with a lot of fight and togetherness but that's not going to win us enough games. I look at the money he has spent in the last two seasons and he still hasn't been able to find a balance or his best team. Yes we have injuries but he has bought back up that just isn't good enough. I look at where we have fallen from Everton who have a smaller budget than us and it's embarrassing. Net spend in 2013 Villa -11.3mil euros Everton +8.mil euros Net Spend in 2012 Villa -24.2mil euros Everton -2.9 euros I know it takes time to put a team together but if you don't buy the right players it will never happen. Other clubs similar to us seem to be able to buy players who can fit right in and play like they have been in the Premiership for years while we have to wait and give them time. Building for the future is great but if you can't play in the present then what's the point? Those players who do come good in the end will go to bigger clubs as we will be at the bottom of the league or worse and the cycle continues. Lambert has to responsible for what goes on on the field. Most managers have been more tactically astute than him this season and the only one who wasn't was the Man City manager and his subs cost them the game. If we are performing this way at the end of the season then it may seriously be a need for a change. I want him to succeed but i'm not sure he can with the decisions he is making. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 When it comes down to it it's the manager and the players who are to blame. Randy may have pulled in the purse strings that may of got us to the top four but in the end it's what happens on the pitch that counts. I watch all but one game this season (on TV) and we don't look like a team that knows what it's doing. I mentioned in an earlier post that we have the 2nd worst possession stats in the league but we also look void of ideas. For those who are defending Lambert how can that be possibly be any ones fault but his? He is the one who coaches the team, buys the players, picks the formation and sets the pattern of player. The players are lost because no one is leading, We are a very poor team now with a lot of fight and togetherness but that's not going to win us enough games. I look at the money he has spent in the last two seasons and he still hasn't been able to find a balance or his best team. Yes we have injuries but he has bought back up that just isn't good enough. I look at where we have fallen from Everton who have a smaller budget than us and it's embarrassing. Net spend in 2013 Villa -11.3mil euros Everton +8.mil euros Net Spend in 2012 Villa -24.2mil euros Everton -2.9 euros I know it takes time to put a team together but if you don't buy the right players it will never happen. Other clubs similar to us seem to be able to buy players who can fit right in and play like they have been in the Premiership for years while we have to wait and give them time. Building for the future is great but if you can't play in the present then what's the point? Those players who do come good in the end will go to bigger clubs as we will be at the bottom of the league or worse and the cycle continues. Lambert has to responsible for what goes on on the field. Most managers have been more tactically astute than him this season and the only one who wasn't was the Man City manager and his subs cost them the game. If we are performing this way at the end of the season then it may seriously be a need for a change. I want him to succeed but i'm not sure he can with the decisions he is making. Everton had a much better squad to start, sale able assets in the squad that boosted the gross spend which is how much you actually have to bring I'm quality, and spend a lot more on wages. I think the problem is not just the players that were signed, but also the deals they were on. 45k for Beye, 60k(?) for Heskey and that 5 year 50k a year deal for a 35 year old GIven are just three in a long list. This is a problem with Mon, Houllier and somewhat lerner, right? And McLeish but yeah, pretty much. I don't understand the obsession with finding a single person to blame (seems to be Lerner in a lot of cases) when in reality there have been a number of factors. I was just trying to point out this is the Lambert thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villianusa Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I would disagree Everton had a better squad but a better manager who can get something from his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Everton have a much better squad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Everton have a much better squad This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Everton have a much better squad This. & we have a much better manager. Lambo will prove his worth. His investment in young, vibrant energetic blossoming potential talents will eventually bear fruit. Still time to be patient & keep the faith. I'm already excited about our in comings in January. Lambo has shown his eye for talent & will do so again. Believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I would disagree Everton had a better squad but a better manager who can get something from his players. Hahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) isn't that exactly what Doug Ellis did....if the players signed had of been of merchantable quality in the first place,we wouldn't be having this conversation today. Everton are a good comparison how they have spent much better than us. And if there had been a wage-cap which ensured we had a sustainable wage bill, then we wouldn't have had to have gone through the cut-back period that has brought this club to it's knees. Edited November 4, 2013 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Everton have a much better squad This. & we have a much better manager. Lambo will prove his worth. His investment in young, vibrant energetic blossoming potential talents will eventually bear fruit. Still time to be patient & keep the faith. I'm already excited about our in comings in January. Lambo has shown his eye for talent & will do so again. Believe. I surprised that you are confident there will be comings in January given Lerner's 'backing' of Lambert last January. Edited November 4, 2013 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 The "we had this many points against the same sides last season" is an irrelevant and terrible argument. It means absolutely nothing. Why? Because you say it does? If we had less points than last year I bet you'd find it somewhat relevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I dont think Lambert will sign a new contract, I think he may even go after this season He'll be flooded with offers just as he was when we hired him no doubt... Yeah 'cause he was out of work when we hired him right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Everton have a much better squad This. & we have a much better manager. Lambo will prove his worth. His investment in young, vibrant energetic blossoming potential talents will eventually bear fruit. Still time to be patient & keep the faith. I'm already excited about our in comings in January. Lambo has shown his eye for talent & will do so again. Believe. In fact one of them, Benteke, will bear his fruits for some other team sooner than later. He wont be here this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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