Dr_Pangloss Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I knew there was going to be an overreaction but this is just lol. We deserved to win this game, but the more clinical team won in the end. No we didn't. We were better in the first half and completely impotent in the second. When it was 0-0 and a stalemate, Martinez brought on Osman whilst Lambert just twiddled his thumbs. We were much more dominant in the second half, even though we didn't have as many clear-cut chances. Martinez made a response to our ascendancy, why would Lambert change anything if we looked the likelier of the 2 teams to score? Also it's not as though we had any 'game changers' on the bench whereas Everton did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova26 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 (edited) Those blaming it on Lerner are just ignorant towards the situation. Educate yourselves on what he spent and the losses we were making, you might have change your mind then. Anyway, I'll put it into very simplistic terms so people understand. £180 million outstanding repayable to Randy's holding company. (2% interest payable which he waived last financial year) 2010/2012 £53.9m loss 2011/2012 £17.7m loss 2012/2013 - announced early next spring...should be even or back in the green. So lets ask you now, do you still want Randy to pour money into the club? It's a business for him, not a game. Nobody would buy the club off him whilst we were losing money either. and the appointments of GH and Big Eck were inspired decisions weren't they. In terms of the question about still wanting him to pour money into the club, the answer is yes, or at least to put in more than he has in recent times, it may be a business to him but it's not to the fans, if he can't fulfil fan expectation he should simply leave. But spending more money will put us in the red again, especially if paying big wages. Do you want us to end up playing with Portsmouth in League 2? Those losses need to be paid bank, Randy isn't going to bankrupt himself for us. And forget a rich arab taking u over. FFP started this financial year. £40 million loss allowed max. All current clubs with sugar daddy owners should come in below that, if they've been prudent. That horse has bolted. Edited October 26, 2013 by supernova26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I knew there was going to be an overreaction but this is just lol. We deserved to win this game, but the more clinical team won in the end. No we didn't. We were better in the first half and completely impotent in the second. When it was 0-0 and a stalemate, Martinez brought on Osman whilst Lambert just twiddled his thumbs. We were much more dominant in the second half, even though we didn't have as many clear-cut chances. Martinez made a response to our ascendancy, why would Lambert change anything if we looked the likelier of the 2 teams to score? We really weren't and we really didn't... I must have been watching a different game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Blaming lambert for today is just wrong, IMO. Before the first goal went in, we matched everton. A team who have spent far, far more money than us. I knew it would only be a matter of time before that line was rolled out. We shouldn't even expect a result against Everton at home now... Please tell me where i said that? Don't put words in my mouth. But yes, everton are a top team and beating them would be a great result. What I mean is that people are spunking themselves over how good everton are, yet we looked their equal for most of the game. Everton have far better players than us in practically every position yet we still matched them. Lambert won't get any praise for that, yet he'll get crucified when his players miss 3/4 easy chances in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Blaming lambert for today is just wrong, IMO. Before the first goal went in, we matched everton. A team who have spent far, far more money than us. They really haven't though. They paid 13m for McCarthy and also brought in Barry and Lukaku on loan. At a guess I'd say wages for them 3 combined would be easily over 100k a week and that's taking into account for Chelski and City paying some wages. How much do you think we shelled out on wages last summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I knew there was going to be an overreaction but this is just lol. We deserved to win this game, but the more clinical team won in the end. No we didn't. We were better in the first half and completely impotent in the second. When it was 0-0 and a stalemate, Martinez brought on Osman whilst Lambert just twiddled his thumbs. We were much more dominant in the second half, even though we didn't have as many clear-cut chances. Martinez made a response to our ascendancy, why would Lambert change anything if we looked the likelier of the 2 teams to score? Also it's not as though we had any 'game changers' on the bench whereas Everton did. Kozak was on the bench though. Money well spent I see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Those blaming it on Lerner are just ignorant towards the situation. Educate yourselves on what he spent and the losses we were making, you might change your mind then. Anyway, I'll put it into very simplistic terms so people understand. £180 million outstanding repayable to Randy's holding company. (2% interest payable which he waived last financial year) 2010/2012 £53.9m loss 2011/2012 £17.7m loss 2012/2013 - announced early next spring...should be even or back in the green. So lets ask you now, do you still want Randy to pour money into the club? It's a business for him, not a game. Nobody would buy the club from him whilst we were losing money either. I think you're the one who needs to educate themselves in what's happened at this football club. Start with allowing wages to spiral out of control and get yourself up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Blaming lambert for today is just wrong, IMO. Before the first goal went in, we matched everton. A team who have spent far, far more money than us. I knew it would only be a matter of time before that line was rolled out. We shouldn't even expect a result against Everton at home now... Not about expecting a result .. But it's that not a big loss .. Especially considering the Penalty .. We attacked them .. And that's what everybody wanting .. But everytime we do that we got caught on the counter (eg Newcastle) .. We need to do a balance especially against those decent teams .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I knew there was going to be an overreaction but this is just lol. We deserved to win this game, but the more clinical team won in the end. No we didn't. We were better in the first half and completely impotent in the second. When it was 0-0 and a stalemate, Martinez brought on Osman whilst Lambert just twiddled his thumbs. We were much more dominant in the second half, even though we didn't have as many clear-cut chances. Martinez made a response to our ascendancy, why would Lambert change anything if we looked the likelier of the 2 teams to score? We really weren't and we really didn't... I must have been watching a different game. I'd say so, yeah. It was the first time this season where we actually looked like the home team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I knew there was going to be an overreaction but this is just lol. We deserved to win this game, but the more clinical team won in the end. No we didn't. We were better in the first half and completely impotent in the second. When it was 0-0 and a stalemate, Martinez brought on Osman whilst Lambert just twiddled his thumbs. We were much more dominant in the second half, even though we didn't have as many clear-cut chances. Martinez made a response to our ascendancy, why would Lambert change anything if we looked the likelier of the 2 teams to score? Also it's not as though we had any 'game changers' on the bench whereas Everton did. Kozak was on the bench though. Money well spent I see... Have we tried Helenius as a game changer ? Lambert put him instead of a good Tonev .. And we we're bad defensively .. No doubt Lambert didn't get it right .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 (edited) So... this is what will happen... Sack Lambert, new coach comes in, another few years of rebuilding on limited budgets, results and investment are on the same level - poor - so the next man gets sacked, we emply somebody else, a few more years of this "rebuilding" on limited budgets, the results and investment are on the same level, poor. Each time the manager is blamed and each time the "rebuilding phase" line is rolled out and each time it will be accepted because it's "Not Lerner who chooses the team" But and this is a real key point, Lambert has shown little / none of the attributes needed to create anything out of what is a pretty poor hand that Lerner has dealt him. His record is actually very poor all round. Last year was bad in so many ways and the some say fluke results against Man City and Arsenal are masking a continuation of those bad traits that affected us so badly last year Westwood and Lowton proved to be good signings last year, Benteke was on another level, Okore is very highly rated (unfortunate injury) Bacuna has looked very good, Luna has shone more often than not, Tonev has been poor so far but I guess that is to be expected. For the very small amount Lambert is allowed for fees and for the very small amount he can offer on wages, he has done an outstanding job. You only have to look at what other teams - smaller than us - are offering (Swansea, Southampton, Cardiff etc) and you can see that the budget Lerner has given Lambert is miles away from what other teams are spending to compete and move forwards. I think you are bigging up some of the players slightly there, but that is not an exact science for either of us, its opinions. Re Lambert though, even if the players are as good as you are making, then why do we find ourselves in the same issues as we had last year. So many times I was told last year it was due to "bad eggs" like Ireland, Hutton, Dunne etc at the club. What we are witnessing again is a repetition of the same type of performance that we had last year and that nearly got us relegated - let alone the long list of bad performance records we hit. The home form again is appalling and that falls firmly into the Lambert area of responsibility. I think that Randy does need to move on because he is hindering the club, but the emperors new clothes mentality re Lambert from some of the fans is quite worrying because when they realise what he really is about it will be too late for us Lambert has made mistakes, he's not perfect, but I do believe he is the right man for the job and the right man to take us forward. If, for example, he had been given MON style backing - which includes a decent wage budget - an things were still as they are now, I would agree there is more room to criticise. But last season he had to replace Collins, Cuellar, Warnock, he also had to find player for the midfield, a striker, he had to fill out the squad - because lets face it, the performances from those "senior" players was not good enough. The previous season before that the heart of the team had been ripped out, Young and Downing (who between them created or scored at least 30 goals) were replaced with N'Zogbia, who doesn't come anywhere near the creative quality. So, somehow Lambert has to replace all of the above, whilst bringing down the wage bill. So, with all of the high earners gone the manager doesn't even receive the same "backing" as in his first season, when it is obvious there are holes that need urgent attention, he is backed with 10m net - which is less than teams around us - and it shows because we do not have enough players in the squad who can change a game or who can come into the team straight away, it's all.. "well, give him a chance as he will be good, we just have no other choice" ^ no other choice. Edited October 26, 2013 by dodgyknees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I knew there was going to be an overreaction but this is just lol. We deserved to win this game, but the more clinical team won in the end. No we didn't. We were better in the first half and completely impotent in the second. When it was 0-0 and a stalemate, Martinez brought on Osman whilst Lambert just twiddled his thumbs. We were much more dominant in the second half, even though we didn't have as many clear-cut chances. Martinez made a response to our ascendancy, why would Lambert change anything if we looked the likelier of the 2 teams to score? Also it's not as though we had any 'game changers' on the bench whereas Everton did. Kozak was on the bench though. Money well spent I see... He is still a young player that is in no way a 'game changer'. He was signed by Lazio as a younster so he would of been on small wages hence the reason he met our criteria. He has only played 4 games for us and has shown that he is going to take time to get going over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I think you and me should have our own conversation Dodgy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I knew there was going to be an overreaction but this is just lol. We deserved to win this game, but the more clinical team won in the end. No we didn't. We were better in the first half and completely impotent in the second. When it was 0-0 and a stalemate, Martinez brought on Osman whilst Lambert just twiddled his thumbs. We were much more dominant in the second half, even though we didn't have as many clear-cut chances. Martinez made a response to our ascendancy, why would Lambert change anything if we looked the likelier of the 2 teams to score? We really weren't and we really didn't... I must have been watching a different game. I'd say so, yeah. It was the first time this season where we actually looked like the home team. Yes in the first half... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Blaming lambert for today is just wrong, IMO. Before the first goal went in, we matched everton. A team who have spent far, far more money than us. They really haven't though. They paid 13m for McCarthy and also brought in Barry and Lukaku on loan. At a guess I'd say wages for them 3 combined would be easily over 100k a week and that's taking into account for Chelski and City paying some wages. How much do you think we shelled out on wages last summer? What does that prove? Apart from that their combined wages for this season are less than what we've paid for Kozak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova26 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Those blaming it on Lerner are just ignorant towards the situation. Educate yourselves on what he spent and the losses we were making, you might change your mind then. Anyway, I'll put it into very simplistic terms so people understand. £180 million outstanding repayable to Randy's holding company. (2% interest payable which he waived last financial year) 2010/2012 £53.9m loss 2011/2012 £17.7m loss 2012/2013 - announced early next spring...should be even or back in the green. So lets ask you now, do you still want Randy to pour money into the club? It's a business for him, not a game. Nobody would buy the club from him whilst we were losing money either. I think you're the one who needs to educate themselves in what's happened at this football club. Start with allowing wages to spiral out of control and get yourself up to speed. Yes he did gamble and it didn't come off. So now you want him to gamble again? Do you really think that's wise given our current predicament? Don't take a job as a debt advisor mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Our current wage bill can not, in any shape of form be more than 50% of our turnover, if that! To keep using it as an excuse is frankly becoming ridiculous. We also have a billionaire owner that could, if he wanted fund us just on the interest he earns every year never mind actually dipping into his own personal kitty. And lets be frank. He CHOSE to buy our football club, NOBODY does that to make money because its virtually impossible to do so. Owning a football club is a rich mans plaything and it's up to him to sort it out. Because one thing is certain, people wont keep turning up to watch us lose at home week after week. And the patience shown by the faithful for the last year is about to pop you can feel it in the air. The three stooges, Lerner, Lambert & Faulkner better get together and get their collective shit together pronto. UTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I knew there was going to be an overreaction but this is just lol. We deserved to win this game, but the more clinical team won in the end. No we didn't. We were better in the first half and completely impotent in the second. When it was 0-0 and a stalemate, Martinez brought on Osman whilst Lambert just twiddled his thumbs. We were much more dominant in the second half, even though we didn't have as many clear-cut chances. Martinez made a response to our ascendancy, why would Lambert change anything if we looked the likelier of the 2 teams to score? Also it's not as though we had any 'game changers' on the bench whereas Everton did. Kozak was on the bench though. Money well spent I see... He is still a young player that is in no way a 'game changer'. He was signed by Lazio as a younster so he would of been on small wages hence the reason he met our criteria. He has only played 4 games for us and has shown that he is going to take time to get going over here. 24 isn't young first of all. Secondly, my point being that the Kozak money could have perhaps been spent on a game changer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 (edited) Those blaming it on Lerner are just ignorant towards the situation. Educate yourselves on what he spent and the losses we were making, you might have change your mind then. Anyway, I'll put it into very simplistic terms so people understand. £180 million outstanding repayable to Randy's holding company. (2% interest payable which he waived last financial year) 2010/2012 £53.9m loss 2011/2012 £17.7m loss 2012/2013 - announced early next spring...should be even or back in the green. So lets ask you now, do you still want Randy to pour money into the club? It's a business for him, not a game. Nobody would buy the club off him whilst we were losing money either. and the appointments of GH and Big Eck were inspired decisions weren't they. In terms of the question about still wanting him to pour money into the club, the answer is yes, or at least to put in more than he has in recent times, it may be a business to him but it's not to the fans, if he can't fulfil fan expectation he should simply leave. But spending more money will put us in the red again, especially if paying big wages. Do you want us to end up playing with Portsmouth in League 2? Those losses need to be paid bank, Randy isn't going to bankrupt himself for us. And forget a rich arab taking u over. FFP started this financial year. £40 million loss allowed max. All current clubs with sugar daddy owners should come in below that, if they've been prudent. That horse has bolted. And you forget that FFP only applies if you are competing in Europe. ......and what would be the penalty for clubs exceeding that loss (none that would stick legally) ? - don't forget we get a £60m dollop of TV money. That said I think Lambert has purchased poorly this summer. Luna is a slight improvement on Bennett, Bacuna isn't as good as Lowton (Last Season) - other than that the money has been spent in positions we didn't need - and don't look good enough in any case. Proved today we have Lambert purchased players costing around £10m on the bench - but none of them you would like changing the game. Edited October 26, 2013 by smetrov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Four defeats out of five at home simply isn't good enough, sort it out Lambert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts