The Fun Factory Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Points are up but the brand of football / entertainment levels are beginning to influence the gate size. People I believe are voting with their feet. Fulham had their lowest PL gate by some distance, home gates are down, luckily we will have a big gate v Yanited as the day trippers will be out plus Yanited in the home ends, but overall gates are worryingly down again. Averaging 36,158 at present compared to 35,060 last year. Not exactly down is it? So far this season we have had higher attendances v Man City, Newcastle, virtually the same V Liverpool, and we look like getting more this year than we played United last season (only 40,538 last year- it looks like a sell out this year). Also we got nearly 36,000 v Cardiff and only 28,692 versus Reading, another promoted club last season. Plus the fact we always for some reason get more after January, I reckon we are good to average 36,000 or more this season. Probably the best for 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Firstly, I haven't looked at the club accounts and wasn't aware that they were published on here as well. I will take time to have a look at them. It wasn't that I was avoiding the question but I didn't realise there was an issue. But in the meantime what I will say once again if Bacuna, for example, cost less that what was quoted in the media. What did the accounts say he cost? Kozak also wasn't even close to being £7m. What I'll promise to do is have a look at the accounts and then more than happy to discuss. Also, I've tried replying to people and using their quote but it doesn't allow me. Anyway have any idea why? The accounts don't say anything about Kozak or Bacuna yet. However, they do give the total spend on last year's players, e.g. Westwood, Benteke etc. The total spend is confirmed as £21.7m, which if you add up the cost of the players on Soccerbase, comes to almost exactly yet. Yet Paul Lambert has given lots of interviews saying that various players cost a lot less than reported. Yet the combined reported cost of the players agrees to the total in the accounts. Something doesn't add up, and it's nothing to do with wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 What would people like me to confirm ie spending? sorry didn't realise I was on trial. Very many of us appreciate the information you pass on, so please do not let the detractors drive you away. You should, of course, be careful what you do say, as you do not want to jeopardise your own position, but anything you can pass on would be great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Firstly calm down. No I don't want him sacked, not yet anyway and I certainly wouldn't advocate continually sacking managers either as you have alluded to above. We've actually only sacked one manager over how many seasons with the others leaving for different reasons so we really don't have a habitual history of sacking managers as the board always try to show patience and I totally agree with you that we need stability, but stability with the right manager. Its just as bad as keeping faith with the same manager for stability sake without substantiated improvement as it is to habitually sack managers. Is Lambert the right manager for us? I wanted him sacked too early in his tenure with us but that wasn't without substance and i've stated a million times on here why I am still not yet a Lambert fan so no need to go into that again but I am still hopeful that through more time he will shove my assumption of him back down my throat and i'm still waiting for him to do that. Even though we have more points at this stage than last season i'm still not convinced by him and if we slide back into relegation trouble again, still repeating the kind of rubbish football that we've seen so far which has been a repetition of last season's debacle and that is a constant past the January window then like a few others on site I will have had enough. Fair enough.........despite apperances to the contrary, I'm not a blind Lambert supporter, however, I feel that we must keep faith with someone through thick and thin and give them a really good go at this I have a lot of patience with Lambert because I think he took on a really difficult task and is seeing it through - certainly he could have taken easier options. I beleive that he sees the possibilties with Villa that if he can get through this difficult period we could have something worthwhile I don't beleive we will slide back into relegation trouble but even so (as I feel today) I hope would still continue to support Lambert - if we were to get relegated I would have to reassess but I really don't think that will happen. To date he has had meagre resources and I don't think anyone could have done any better in the circumstances - I truly beleive that he had no option but to take the path he has with young untried players. I'm not ITK but I do know for a fact that he would have liked to sign more quality and more experience (Kiyotake, Sissoko and appartently Barry) I get frustrated from time to time (e.g. why did he wait until 82 mins to bring on Albrighton and Tonev?) however, I always filter those thoughts though the knowledge that Lambert understand 1000 times more about the players and football than I ever will If Lambert is backed in January to bring in a couple of decent players (a defensive mid, who maybe can double as CB cover and a Kiyotake-type attacking midfield) I think we can look forward to a comfortable second half - if not we are in the lap of the gods injury-wise (I take your point that we have the same number of players as everyone else but the money we have spent so far means we don't really have the depth of squad yet that we need). I'm not going over old ground regarding keeping more experienced players - I don't think that was ever an option and you clearly think differently - maybe HH can give his opinion What I do know is that Lambert was never under any pressure to purchase younger players which is slightly different to your point but relevant all the same and it was his decision alone to use his budget in the way that he did. I do agree however that the wage structure was probably discussed between Lambert and the board at interview stage but I don't agree that Lerner sat Lambert down and said A, B and C must go immediately because if that was true why did Lambert give the captaincy to a player he was going to sell? Maybe Lambert was informed that if certain high wage earners were not going to be used then those players needed to be offloaded first to accommodate new signings whose wages were going to be capped at a certain level until the rest of the bomb squad were moved on? Unfortunately since several members of the 'bomb squad' are still on our books (as Mantis continually points out to me) and have proven difficult to move, we are where we are at the moment. Throwing a spanner in the works 'TrentVilla' and a few others including myself maybe too cynically think that our chairman also has an ulterior motive in making such sweeping cutbacks while not backing the manager at a time when we were in dire trouble. It could well be that our chairman is preparing us for a sale and wants to balance the books while getting his money back and at the same time making us more attractive for a prospective buyer? Lambert might already be aware of this and indeed a time frame but it's all conjecture with no proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Firstly, I haven't looked at the club accounts and wasn't aware that they were published on here as well. I will take time to have a look at them. It wasn't that I was avoiding the question but I didn't realise there was an issue. But in the meantime what I will say once again if Bacuna, for example, cost less that what was quoted in the media. What did the accounts say he cost? Kozak also wasn't even close to being £7m. What I'll promise to do is have a look at the accounts and then more than happy to discuss. Also, I've tried replying to people and using their quote but it doesn't allow me. Anyway have any idea why? IS it an IE 11 problem because it doesn't work for me on that, i have to use another browser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 People being unhappy with the brand of football being played is the best way to put it, Electric Avenue, I certainly agree with that phrase because we aren't actually playing bad football. In some aspects you could say we are, for example we aren't scoring enough goals, but people saying we are playing crap football are saying it from their point of view - it is a brand of football that they are unhappy watching. Defensively we are playing very, very well and a great deal better than last season, which leaves me confused as to why we have any call at all such as "we need to get Lescott in on loan for 6 months." There are aspects of our footballing style that aren't pleasing to the eye as such, but they get the job done. There are other aspects to our footballing style that maybe aren't getting the job done, for example our strikers or the creativity department in terms of creating goal scoring chances. Lambert obviously knows this, he is a professional within the game, a professional football manager with some fantastic achievements under his belt. Of course he needs to be able to rectify such issues, in this case, by maybe buying a player or even two. Why did he not buy these players in the Summer? Well, probably because just like ourselves he thought last season finished well and goalscoring or creating opportunities would probably be the least of our worries. You could also argue that we were linked to quite a few 'attacking midfielders' and creative players, but Lambert simply wasn't backed financially to bring them in. Overall though we are and have been improving, in terms of results and points on the board most importantly but also important statistics such as the amount of goals we have conceded or the amount of clean sheets we have obtained. Do I think we'll bring in a player to solve our creative/scoring issues in January? Hopefully, but that isn't down to Lambert as I've already mentioned it was clear as day we were trying to purchase such a player in the Summer. I'd like to think Randy will see our results are going well, our position is decent and to push on further he'll fund whatever move it is (within reason) that Lambert sees fit. From there, maybe our football will be more pleasing to watch, with more creativity, more chances and of course more goals. We can't expect all aspects of our game to click after less than 18 months, last season we saw signs of great attacking football towards the end of it, this season we've seen great defensive performances from the get go. I for one am positive that Lambert will get things to click though, but we just have to be patient and also hope that he is backed where/when he needs it. I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread but I'll say it as well, we should wait until at least the end of the season before making judgments on whether we're rubbish at football or not. Agreed 100% agreed 95% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Why does Lambert always walk with his head down? My dad always told me never to trust a man who done that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avflife Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Regarding Sunday, 1) Lowton should of played at right-back, Bacuna further up the field instead of KEA, 2) Why bother making substitutes at all if you're going to make them so late, when Albrighton and Lowton came on at around 80 minutes on Sunday #stubborn, I thought what is the point and 3) Kozak was 7m No doubt we need to spend in January, PL would be committing Premiership suicide if he weren't to buy another centre half, a more experienced version of Sylla and a winger/number 10. Edited December 9, 2013 by Avflife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avflife Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Have you got his email then I would gladly, think might have to edit it with my FM achievements first though Nah its 7m, maybe 5m with add-ons and additional hidden clauses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) hidden clauses??? its football - its business - not secret service. add-ons aren't included in basic transfer fees. Big problem with real life football management is you can't play the game, decide it didn't work, and go back and play it again because you don't save it :P I have a feeling that maybe add-ons are included in the financial documents when a player is purchased though. I hated my finance modules so I'm not too good with remembering exactly, but I think say a player cost £5m up front + £2m in potential add-ons, he'd be put down as a £7m asset/purchase in the balance sheet but £5m in the cash flow statement. So we've bought a £7m asset in Kozak, but we have only paid £5m so far and may not ever pay the other £2m. I could be completely wrong. Edited December 9, 2013 by samjp26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Hey HH will Lambert ever have money to spend? I.e 10 mill on 4 or 5 players each Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avflife Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Kozak 7m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSepulchrave Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 http://www.statsbomb.com/2013/09/the-curious-cost-of-the-everton-loans/ I feel like this might be pertinent to the discussion RE Everton. It does seem like there's an awful lot of people who don't realise that when we say we're "building for the future" that future =/= six months later. We're short of talent on the ball and still lacking depth, and our attack force which was so devastating last season has hit really bad form. Despite this, our defense is far better and we've actually accrued a very respectable point tally. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Think he will get green light for creative midfielder in Jan - I wouldn't imagine he'd get someone any more than £3m although I wouldn't say 100 per cent right now because that could change. Could it change in a good way or a bad way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Think he will get green light for creative midfielder in Jan - I wouldn't imagine he'd get someone any more than £3m although I wouldn't say 100 per cent right now because that could change. Why is this, his remit was to get rid of all the chaf/big wages? He seems to have managed this so is he still going to have to do this model till he leaves or Randy leaves? I thought he would have got money once he had trimmed it down to thread bare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avflife Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Everton signed Barry, Lukaku and Deulofeu on loan and we signed well no one on loan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Creative midfield under 3m. Time to go scouting the bottom echelons of the leagues! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Think he will get green light for creative midfielder in Jan - I wouldn't imagine he'd get someone any more than £3m although I wouldn't say 100 per cent right now because that could change. £3m being the top end is quite saddening to be fair and a real shame, especially after seeing the names thrown about in the Summer for such a role being at least £8m+. Wonder if Blackpool would take £3m for Tom Ince being as his contract runs out in the Summer. That said, I bet other clubs will be sniffing with a bit more cash to offer. Edited December 9, 2013 by samjp26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I was just wondering if he does sign a creative midfield player where it leaves Westwood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) If £3m is what the club think will get us a creative mid to develop our style of play we might as well save the money and let some of our Next Gen kids get a crack at PL football Those players are out there, like Michu. But chances of us finding him are slim to none Edited December 9, 2013 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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