Manager Paul Lambert

[Mantis]

I think it's easy to forget that for quite a while there was something very rotten about the club. Lambert's reversed that and we're stable now if unremarkable.

[Panto_Villan]

I'm no longer astonished when we're losing at half time and manage to finish the game with at least a point in the bank. That's certainly progress from last year.

 

Lambert's not the best manager in the world but he's a lot better than the other managers we've had recently, so I hope he sticks around for a while. I also think many of those who dislike him would be loathe to take another spin on the manager selection wheel in the hopes of getting someone better, as we could definitely do much worse!

[Cliffy Biro]

Randy has made 1 good appointment out of 3, lets hope he doesn't have the make another for another few years as i dont like the odds

[srsmithusa]

Thanks terrytini for your post above. Personally, I'm very tired of every positive viewpoint being accused of "papering over the cracks". We'll all agree that papering over the cracks is a bad idea, but I think tearing the building down over a crack is also a bad idea.

I am confident that many of the "wrecking ball crew" sincerely love the club and want us to improve (while I suspect that a few are blues linked or just wind up artists).

Cracks and weaknesses exist. Several were on clear display during the WBA match, but Lambert's were not on display. Every manager gambles on players they hope will be great. Every manager loses many of those gambles. Several of our starters had nightmares, but a nightmare now and then does not mean a terrible investment or player. (Rooney has had a fair few). Neither does a player that never really develops mean a terrible manager. (Ferguson had quite a few)

I know we aren't supposed to negatively label other posters with differing views. But personally, I would like a similar rule for owners, club officials, managers, players, and anyone else (other than the opposition and the referees of course

Everyone, including Bacuna knows that his "pass" to Baker was a terrible mistake. I would rather discuss why he did that. Lack of concentration? Poor vision? Just badly mis-hit? Did he expect a central midfielder backing in there? To me those are good questions. Discussing whether he's a good buy or will ever be great, is all conjecture, if's and but's and somebody is tearing the building down while somebody else is papering over the cracks. It gets old, or maybe that's just me.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Or to put it another way.

 

First 25 games, average 0.84 points per game, equating to 32 per season - or second/third bottom.

Second 25 games, average 1.4 points per game, or 53 points per season - or 8th.  Wouldn't 8th be a good season ?

 

Or match equivalent games against equivalent teams - better

Or match same stage of season reagrdless of opposition - better.

 

Statisticians amongst you will be interested in his 10 game rolling points average, every 10 games from the beginning of last season.  For a long while it was at 0.9, has risen as high as 1.7, and is currently 1.2, with a very steady, slow, upward trend.  Importantly a shift from 0.9 points a game to 1.1 points per game is worth 8 points a season - as a minimum  his rolling average is now always at least 42 points.  Until 5 games ago his rolling average was between 1.4 and 1.7 points per game for 14 games (i.e. between 53 and 65 points for the season) - not suprising we couldn't maintain that - especially with up to 6 or 7 first choce players injured and games against all the Top 10.

 

So whether people like it or not (incredible really, you would think everyone would want to beleive something so positive) we actually are improving.

 

Many many clubs get a new Manager and start off well then decline.  We got one who has steadily improved.  The defence conceedes less. We lose less.  We remain unbeaten more.

 

An argument over performances is a different issue, but as for whether PL is improving the results of the Club, yes he clearly is. That is not subjective.

 

Then there is the subjective stuff.  Bent, Warnock, Collins, Ireland, etc etc - which one is it that is setting the League alight, remind me...oh yeah....none of them.

 

Then the question of his buys - one or two do not seem to have developed.  But has KEA ? Has Vlaar ?  Has Westwood ? Has Benteke ?

 

Is Delph a better player ?  Guzan ?  Even Clarke.  Definitely Baker.  Does Bacuna look a reasonable buy ?  Gabby getting back to his best ?

 

They are all subjective and people may well feel negative about some but if you add the actual statistics to what some  - myself - would say is promise from the majority of purchases and retainees, to the obviously more sure footed financial status, then YES, we are improving, NO PL is not a messiah, but we are on an upward curve.

 

Like everyone a bit more actual good football would be welcome  - pretty sure he knows that too -  but the League is full of stories of Teams who played a bit and ended up relegated or bankrupt.

 

Under PL we will be neither and there is plenty of reason for those that want to think so to consider he has the nous, the staff, the ideas, the philosophy, that will continue an upward journey.

 

For some to suggest we are deluded is baseless.  You may find reasons to fault him - look at some Gunners fans with Wenger so PL has no chance - but you can hardly say those that support him have no or few grounds for so doing.

 

That was like a B52 load of truth bombs being dropped right there.

[VillaForever1970]

Or to put it another way.

 

First 25 games, average 0.84 points per game, equating to 32 per season - or second/third bottom.

Second 25 games, average 1.4 points per game, or 53 points per season - or 8th.  Wouldn't 8th be a good season ?

 

Or match equivalent games against equivalent teams - better

Or match same stage of season reagrdless of opposition - better.

 

Statisticians amongst you will be interested in his 10 game rolling points average, every 10 games from the beginning of last season.  For a long while it was at 0.9, has risen as high as 1.7, and is currently 1.2, with a very steady, slow, upward trend.  Importantly a shift from 0.9 points a game to 1.1 points per game is worth 8 points a season - as a minimum  his rolling average is now always at least 42 points.  Until 5 games ago his rolling average was between 1.4 and 1.7 points per game for 14 games (i.e. between 53 and 65 points for the season) - not suprising we couldn't maintain that - especially with up to 6 or 7 first choce players injured and games against all the Top 10.

 

So whether people like it or not (incredible really, you would think everyone would want to beleive something so positive) we actually are improving.

 

Many many clubs get a new Manager and start off well then decline.  We got one who has steadily improved.  The defence conceedes less. We lose less.  We remain unbeaten more.

 

An argument over performances is a different issue, but as for whether PL is improving the results of the Club, yes he clearly is. That is not subjective.

 

Then there is the subjective stuff.  Bent, Warnock, Collins, Ireland, etc etc - which one is it that is setting the League alight, remind me...oh yeah....none of them.

 

Then the question of his buys - one or two do not seem to have developed.  But has KEA ? Has Vlaar ?  Has Westwood ? Has Benteke ?

 

Is Delph a better player ?  Guzan ?  Even Clarke.  Definitely Baker.  Does Bacuna look a reasonable buy ?  Gabby getting back to his best ?

 

They are all subjective and people may well feel negative about some but if you add the actual statistics to what some  - myself - would say is promise from the majority of purchases and retainees, to the obviously more sure footed financial status, then YES, we are improving, NO PL is not a messiah, but we are on an upward curve.

 

Like everyone a bit more actual good football would be welcome  - pretty sure he knows that too -  but the League is full of stories of Teams who played a bit and ended up relegated or bankrupt.

 

Under PL we will be neither and there is plenty of reason for those that want to think so to consider he has the nous, the staff, the ideas, the philosophy, that will continue an upward journey.

 

For some to suggest we are deluded is baseless.  You may find reasons to fault him - look at some Gunners fans with Wenger so PL has no chance - but you can hardly say those that support him have no or few grounds for so doing.

Excellent, will be conviniently ignored by some.

Edited November 27, 2013 by VillaForever1970

[VillaCas]

 

I don't think there's much that can be argued with in that post.

 

 

Disappointed you like TT's stats better than mine!! I was telling you that all last season. Glad you've seen the light!

 

[coda]

Points won by coming from behind this season.

7: Aston Villa

6: Manchester United

5: Cardiff, Chelsea, Everton

4: Norwich, Stoke

3: Fulham, Hull, Liverpool, Man City, Southampton

2: Swansea, West Brom

1: Arsenal

0: Crystal Palace, Newcastle, Sunderland, Tottenham, West Ham.

 

 

Haven't followed this thread so apologies if this has been covered numerous times. A nice contrast to all the points we threw away last season. 

[Mantis]

Didn't it take us ages to start winning games after going behind as well? I seem to recall the Reading away game in March being the first game where we did that, whereas we've done it twice already this season. I guess the only problem is we seem to concede early quite a lot this season. Not sure if it's down to lack of concentration or what, but at least we can get back into the game a lot of the time.

[VillaChris]

Win saturday and we should be back in the top 10 given Swansea will surely not win away to Man. City and I can't see WBA beating Newcastle away (wouldn't mind a draw in that though to keep Newcastle in touch).

 

I'm not sure what more than top 10 Lambert should be achieving really at this moment in time.

[omariqy]

As ever I will only every make a true judgement come the end of the season and in the meantime all I can say is that I am not really sure how good or bad we are.

We are either playing badly and grinding out results or we are actually this bad and have been lucky. There have been periods in games where we have played well but we have yet to play well consistently and some of the football has been awful.  However, I am fully behind PL in his vision and we are obviously improving in terms of results.  Lets hope it clicks for us and we can go on a run of games of playing good football and getting good results.

[Morpheus]

Or to put it another way.

 

First 25 games, average 0.84 points per game, equating to 32 per season - or second/third bottom.

Second 25 games, average 1.4 points per game, or 53 points per season - or 8th.  Wouldn't 8th be a good season ?

 

Or match equivalent games against equivalent teams - better

Or match same stage of season reagrdless of opposition - better.

 

Statisticians amongst you will be interested in his 10 game rolling points average, every 10 games from the beginning of last season.  For a long while it was at 0.9, has risen as high as 1.7, and is currently 1.2, with a very steady, slow, upward trend.  Importantly a shift from 0.9 points a game to 1.1 points per game is worth 8 points a season - as a minimum  his rolling average is now always at least 42 points.  Until 5 games ago his rolling average was between 1.4 and 1.7 points per game for 14 games (i.e. between 53 and 65 points for the season) - not suprising we couldn't maintain that - especially with up to 6 or 7 first choce players injured and games against all the Top 10.

 

So whether people like it or not (incredible really, you would think everyone would want to beleive something so positive) we actually are improving.

 

Many many clubs get a new Manager and start off well then decline.  We got one who has steadily improved.  The defence conceedes less. We lose less.  We remain unbeaten more.

 

An argument over performances is a different issue, but as for whether PL is improving the results of the Club, yes he clearly is. That is not subjective.

 

Then there is the subjective stuff.  Bent, Warnock, Collins, Ireland, etc etc - which one is it that is setting the League alight, remind me...oh yeah....none of them.

 

Then the question of his buys - one or two do not seem to have developed.  But has KEA ? Has Vlaar ?  Has Westwood ? Has Benteke ?

 

Is Delph a better player ?  Guzan ?  Even Clarke.  Definitely Baker.  Does Bacuna look a reasonable buy ?  Gabby getting back to his best ?

 

They are all subjective and people may well feel negative about some but if you add the actual statistics to what some  - myself - would say is promise from the majority of purchases and retainees, to the obviously more sure footed financial status, then YES, we are improving, NO PL is not a messiah, but we are on an upward curve.

 

Like everyone a bit more actual good football would be welcome  - pretty sure he knows that too -  but the League is full of stories of Teams who played a bit and ended up relegated or bankrupt.

 

Under PL we will be neither and there is plenty of reason for those that want to think so to consider he has the nous, the staff, the ideas, the philosophy, that will continue an upward journey.

 

For some to suggest we are deluded is baseless.  You may find reasons to fault him - look at some Gunners fans with Wenger so PL has no chance - but you can hardly say those that support him have no or few grounds for so doing.

Wish to commend you on an excellent post substantiated with statistics.

 

It would be quite easy to retort with statistics of my own from the start of last season highlighting all the wrong records broken with our home form and a lack of goals this season. However i will leave that as statistics can be misleading and i would prefer to concentrate what i see in front of my own nose.

 

There is no doubt that results have improved and no-one is denying that yet as stated in my previous post we really didn't have a long way to go from last season to improve did we if we're going to be absolutely objective and that should be the base on which our improvement this season is judged on.

 

Presently we are in and around mid table where many of us including myself have predicted where we'll finish. I would suggest that is the very least we should expect from the players that were already here (such as Delph, Weiman and Gabby who are still our best players with only Benteke breaking into that group from Lambert's signings) and 42m spent since Lambert started his tenure here. He has moved out several of the high earners and replaced those with younger players who are bursting a gut for the club and while he has to be commended for this it didn't take any amount of rocket science to see that certain players had to be moved on for various reasons so i don't think Lambert has done anything that most other managers wouldn't have done considering the budget.

 

That brings me to the players you have mentioned above and i would suggest that Gabby's form has nothing to do with the present manager in that Gabby has always been a good player for us and would have continued that form irrespective of who the manager was and i would say the same concerning Delph coming back from his injury. Clark and Baker were also bound to improve when getting more game time in the Premiership but would you really have Baker as first choice? Again as stated previously those players are not Lambert signings and therefore i'm not so sure that they can be used to back improvement concerning Lambert.

 

You have also mentioned Lambert's signings and he has made two great signings in Benteke and Vlaar. While Benteke hasn't yet fired this season probably due to injury, for me, Vlaar has been a revelation. My main criticism of Vlaar last season was that he was weak in the air and didn't like to take responsibility. This season he has amended those weaknesses and has now become a very solid Premiership CB and that is the main reason why we've become more solid at the back. Lambert and his coaching team have quite obviously helped Vlaar on those stated weaknesses and should be praised for that. Guzan was also a good signing but then he too had been at the club and no-one really knows the circumstances of the re-signing.

 

Of those other Lambert signings you mention they have been very hit and miss for me and lack quality hence why our standard of football has been so poor unless we have our best players available. However i've seen signs that Kozak in the right formation could be better than most people think.

 

I see you've made the point that the Premiership has had teams who 'played a bit and ended up relegated or bankrupt' concerning level of performance yet take a look at who consistently finishes in the top four and what type of football they play.

 

You make further points that under Lambert we won't be relegated or bankrupt. The first point was very nearly contradicted last season and the second won't happen due to the chairman and will have nothing to do with Lambert as most managers given money to spend will actually spend it.

 

Finally if you actually look at what i was replying to in my previous post the comments living in 'Cloud Cuckoo Land' and Blue Sky Thinking' was certainly warranted for the reasons already stated.   

Edited November 27, 2013 by Morpheus

[daggy_333]

Or to put it another way.

First 25 games, average 0.84 points per game, equating to 32 per season - or second/third bottom.

Second 25 games, average 1.4 points per game, or 53 points per season - or 8th. Wouldn't 8th be a good season ?

Or match equivalent games against equivalent teams - better

Or match same stage of season reagrdless of opposition - better.

Statisticians amongst you will be interested in his 10 game rolling points average, every 10 games from the beginning of last season. For a long while it was at 0.9, has risen as high as 1.7, and is currently 1.2, with a very steady, slow, upward trend. Importantly a shift from 0.9 points a game to 1.1 points per game is worth 8 points a season - as a minimum his rolling average is now always at least 42 points. Until 5 games ago his rolling average was between 1.4 and 1.7 points per game for 14 games (i.e. between 53 and 65 points for the season) - not suprising we couldn't maintain that - especially with up to 6 or 7 first choce players injured and games against all the Top 10.

So whether people like it or not (incredible really, you would think everyone would want to beleive something so positive) we actually are improving.

Many many clubs get a new Manager and start off well then decline. We got one who has steadily improved. The defence conceedes less. We lose less. We remain unbeaten more.

An argument over performances is a different issue, but as for whether PL is improving the results of the Club, yes he clearly is. That is not subjective.

Then there is the subjective stuff. Bent, Warnock, Collins, Ireland, etc etc - which one is it that is setting the League alight, remind me...oh yeah....none of them.

Then the question of his buys - one or two do not seem to have developed. But has KEA ? Has Vlaar ? Has Westwood ? Has Benteke ?

Is Delph a better player ? Guzan ? Even Clarke. Definitely Baker. Does Bacuna look a reasonable buy ? Gabby getting back to his best ?

They are all subjective and people may well feel negative about some but if you add the actual statistics to what some - myself - would say is promise from the majority of purchases and retainees, to the obviously more sure footed financial status, then YES, we are improving, NO PL is not a messiah, but we are on an upward curve.

Like everyone a bit more actual good football would be welcome - pretty sure he knows that too - but the League is full of stories of Teams who played a bit and ended up relegated or bankrupt.

Under PL we will be neither and there is plenty of reason for those that want to think so to consider he has the nous, the staff, the ideas, the philosophy, that will continue an upward journey.

For some to suggest we are deluded is baseless. You may find reasons to fault him - look at some Gunners fans with Wenger so PL has no chance - but you can hardly say those that support him have no or few grounds for so doing.

Wish to commend you on an excellent post substantiated with statistics.

It would be quite easy to retort with statistics of my own from the start of last season right through to this season highlighting all the wrong records broken with our home form and a lack of goals this season. However i will leave that as statistics can be misleading and i would prefer to concentrate what i see in front of my own nose.

There is no doubt that results have improved and no-one is denying that yet as stated in my previous post we really didn't have to go a long way from last season to improve did we if we're going to be absolutely objective and that should be the base on which our improvement this season is judged on.

Presently we are in and around mid table where many of us including myself have predicted where we'll finish. I would suggest that is the very least we should expect from the players that were already here (such as Delph, Weiman and Gabby who are still our best players with only Benteke breaking into that group from Lambert's signings) and 42m spent since Lambert started his tenure here. He has moved out several of the high earners and replaced those with younger players who are bursting a gut for the club and while he has to be commended for this it didn't take any amount of rocket science to see that certain players had to be moved on for various reasons so i don't think Lambert has done anything that most other managers wouldn't have done considering the budget.

That brings me to the players you have mentioned above and i would suggest that Gabby's form has nothing to do with the present manager in that Gabby has always been a good player for us and would have continued that form irrespective of who the manager was and i would say the same concerning Delph coming back from his injury. Clark and Baker were also bound to improve when getting more game time in the Premiership but would you really have Baker as first choice? Again as stated previously those players are not Lambert signings and therefore i'm not so sure that they can be used to back improvement concerning Lambert.

You have also mentioned Lambert's signings and he has made two great signings in Benteke and Vlaar. While Benteke hasn't yet fired this season probably due to injury, for me, Vlaar has been a revelation. My main criticism of Vlaar last season was that he was weak in the air and didn't like to take responsibility. This season he has amended those weaknesses and has now become a very solid Premiership CB and that is the main reason why we've become more solid at the back. Lambert and his coaching team have quite obviously helped Vlaar on those stated weaknesses and should be praised for that. Guzan was also a good signing but then he too had been at the club and no-one really knows the circumstances of the re-signing.

Of those other Lambert signings you mention they have been very hit and miss for me and lack quality hence why our standard of football has been so poor unless we have our best players available. However i've seen signs that Kozak in the right formation could be better than most people think.

I see you've made the point that the Premiership has had teams who 'played a bit and ended up relegated or bankrupt' concerning level of performance yet take a look at who consistently finishes in the top four and what type of football they play.

You make a further points that under Lambert we won't be relegated or bankrupt. The first point was very nearly contradicted last season and the second won't happen due to the chairman and will have nothing to do with Lambert as most managers given money to spend will actually spend it.

Finally if you actually look at what i was replying to in my previous post the comments living in 'Cloud Cuckoo Land' and Blue Sky Thinking' was certainly warranted for the reasons already stated.

Good post Morpheous although I must question your inclusion on Weimann in your list of our best players. In my opinion Guzan and Vlaar are much more worthy of a spot in that list.

[BOF]

Points won by coming from behind this season.

7: Aston Villa

Yep, positives and negatives from that. Positives are that we don't give up, our heads don't fall and if we go behind we can get something. The negatives are that we tend to BE behind at some point. In the 10 games of ours that have contained a goal this season, we've conceded the first goal 8 times. EIGHT?!?!? We've only opened the scoring twice (and we won both of those). So we tend to have the opportunity to come from behind more than I'd like.

[terrytini]

Well it was nice to get up this morning and see my post was so well received by so many, (including one or two suprises !) as it suggests PL will continue to be given the time he needs to make a real difference at our Club.

 

I dont have much to add  but would respond to a couple of the points made above by Morpheus - although not a lot, because I fear it is going over old ground.

 

You correctly mention that our improvement is against a low baseline.  But it is still an ongoing improvement.  Also, you are entering a hazy area there, because although the low baseline came about UNDER PL, it doen't necessarily follow that he caused it.  Many would argue we were on a massive downward spiral for a considerable time before hand.  It could easily be argued those depths could have been hit regardless - it isn't about specific results but those of us at Chelsea under MON who saw the walloping we got (and I speak as a fan of the MON years largely) were not overly suprised when it happened again.  Whether PL's drastic action in sacking the First Team added to, or was irrelevant to, the initial drop, is debatable.  In any event, I counter that criticism regarding the baseline by saying I dont consider it entirely down to PL, whereas the subsequent improvement clearly is so.

 

The other main subject you refer to is the players.  Yes I touched on a few random examples where I think PL has had a positive impact - I could add others.  Fair enough, you think Gabby would have got better anyway, and make the point several times that some of our best players are not PL's buys.

 

I dont see much point going there too much, as it is way into the realms of personal opinions, and I tried largely to concerntrate on provable realities.

 

All I would say is that whether you think any Manager may have acheived those improvements, OUR Manager actually has, so that is good isn't it ? (For example neither Gabby or Delph looked up to much in the preceeding seasons, but they clearly do now).  Also it is important to bear in mind that whilst he may not have bought some of them, it was clearly him who decided who to keep, and his decisions in respect of Guzan, Delph, Clarke, Gabby etc, seem pretty good ones.

[SikhInTrinity]

I like Lambert and we've been steady, but the major concern I have is his constant changing team and tactics. Playing players out of position, we all know what Sylla's stengths are, he's one who can press and win the ball and pass it to the likes of Westwood and Delph. All I ask is for him to play a formation, stick with it. We have no fluidity to our play and its no wonder why we can't sodding pass. WBA looked a lot more comfortable as they knew where their players were to keep the ball and move it. We had a midfield that look like a bunch of strangers picked up from the local park for a kickabout. I really hope I never see KEA and Sylla in the same midfield, it has to be one or the other.

[LondonLax]

It's funny how often fans level the 'playing players out of position' accusation at the manager.

Every fan forum I read has posters making this claim about their manager.

[AVTuco]

This thread doesn't interest me one bit. Something wrong with me?

[SikhInTrinity]

It's funny how often fans level the 'playing players out of position' accusation at the manager.

Every fan forum I read has posters making this claim about their manager.

 

Playing Sylla where he was on Monday, was out of position. Sitting high up in the away end I could not figure out what the hell our formation was. It was like a 4 -3-1LM 2. Sylla is good at tackling and passing the ball on to the likes of Westwood and Delph, what he's not good at is trying to thread balls through to Benteke.

[brommy]

It's funny how often fans level the 'playing players out of position' accusation at the manager.

Every fan forum I read has posters making this claim about their manager.

 

Playing Sylla where he was on Monday, was out of position. Sitting high up in the away end I could not figure out what the hell our formation was. It was like a 4 -3-1LM 2. Sylla is good at tackling and passing the ball on to the likes of Westwood and Delph, what he's not good at is trying to thread balls through to Benteke.

I won't get in to a debate where one pretends to be a better football manager than another. What I will say is the hawthorns doesn't have a 'high up'!