StefanAVFC Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 53 minutes ago, Ikantcpell said: Oh Cmon, it's not ok to wish death on someone just because you don't agree with his politics. There's a real and fundamental difference between disagreeing with somebody's politics (me disliking Tony because he's a Tory word removed for example ) than disliking somebody because of the impact their politics has on the world and your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2018 57 minutes ago, Ikantcpell said: Oh Cmon, it's not ok to wish death on someone just because you don't agree with his politics. It's his actions I disagree with, not just his politics. I'll also use this opportunity to invoke Godwin's Law 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Wearing a seatbelt doesn't guarantee you won't get hurt in a car crash but I'm glad it's written into law. Paris is non-binding on substance but binding on reporting .. not really law It would be like saying you don't have to wear a seatbelt and then we will report that nobody died as a result of not wearing one , whilst putting the dead bodies down the holes created by Fracking (I think , couldn't really think of a better seatbelt related analogy ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: Paris accord has pretty much achieved nothing ...A study published in the August found that all major industrialized nations are failing to meet the pledges they made in the Paris Agreement .. that's before you get into the area that the obsession with carbon emissions helps to promote natural gas extraction (i.e fracking) , so reduce Carbon footprint but cause untold other environmental damage ..Hmmm good plan so I don't think Trump pulling out of it has made the world a more dangerous place if I'm honest .. and for the Ahhh but , Obama signed up to it via executive agreement , without seeking US senate approval ... over half of the US states were suing the government over his Clean Power Plan ... now you can argue America has made the world a dangerous place for your daughter , but you can't necessarily blame this one squarely at the feet of Trump I'll answer the rest of your post too. I think fracking is also bad, and think it's rotten that some countries are increasing it as part of "meeting the accord". I can't imagine we're going to see a reduction in the amount of fracking in the US once they announce open season on burning coal in 2020. He's not taking from one to feed the other. He gives no ****. You reference Obama going solo to do something he believed (hard to argue too) is for the benefit of the whole world. I'm glad he did. Trump on the other hand issued a presidential proclamation to reduce two Utah national monuments by 1.9m acres (85% of Bears Ears and 50% of Grand Staircase-Escalante), opening the door to more mining and hunting. Just what the environment needs! So - any rebuttal to my other qualifying statements about how he's making the world more dangerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: There's a real and fundamental difference between disagreeing with somebody's politics (me disliking Tony because he's a Tory word removed for example ) than disliking somebody because of the impact their politics has on the world and your life. I'd be disappointed if the Teacher and Seahawks stuff wasn't also a factor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Paris is non-binding on substance but binding on reporting .. not really law It would be like saying you don't have to wear a seatbelt and then we will report that nobody died as a result of not wearing one , whilst putting the dead bodies down the holes created by Fracking (I think , couldn't really think of a better seatbelt related analogy ) OK then, rather than "law", I'd rather aim to be safe than not even try. The report said many countries weren't meeting the targets, but it had still led to an improvement on not having the targets in place. And given how this racist sweet potato is happy to lie about anything, I wouldn't expect reporting that wasn't bound to the accord to be in any way accurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 This is probably one for the 'environment' thread, but coal isn't coming back no matter what Trump says or does. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: You reference Obama going solo to do something he believed (hard to argue too) is for the benefit of the whole world. Obama as in the Obama who gave a speech saying "Over the last three years, I've directed my administration to open up millions of acres for gas and oil exploration across 23 different states. We're opening up more than 75 percent of our potential oil resources offshore. We've quadrupled the number of operating rigs to a record high. We've added enough new oil and gas pipeline to encircle the Earth, and then some. . . . In fact, the problem . . . is that we're actually producing so much oil and gas . . . that we don't have enough pipeline capacity to transport all of it where it needs to go." I thought everyone knew the accusations about him being too closely tied to the fossil-fuel industry during his tenure ? ... he even allowed Shell to drill in the Arctic , Our pioneering spirit is naturally drawn to this region, for the economic opportunities it presents," he said yeah , don't really think I'm buying the he believed in it line tbh .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: Accompanied by a rectal prolapse, as supposedly happened to Schnorbitz. I get why you can't stand Trump, but what has Schnorbitz ever done to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 "Stormy Daniels" has stated that Trump has a tiny cock. He's also handing out his "Fake News Awards" today. Should be an interesting afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Obama as in the Obama who gave a speech saying "Over the last three years, I've directed my administration to open up millions of acres for gas and oil exploration across 23 different states. We're opening up more than 75 percent of our potential oil resources offshore. We've quadrupled the number of operating rigs to a record high. We've added enough new oil and gas pipeline to encircle the Earth, and then some. . . . In fact, the problem . . . is that we're actually producing so much oil and gas . . . that we don't have enough pipeline capacity to transport all of it where it needs to go." I thought everyone knew the accusations about him being too closely tied to the fossil-fuel industry during his tenure ? ... he even allowed Shell to drill in the Arctic , Our pioneering spirit is naturally drawn to this region, for the economic opportunities it presents," he said yeah , don't really think I'm buying the he believed in it line tbh .. Someone else did something bad, therefore nobody can be accused of doing bad things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Someone else did something bad, therefore nobody can be accused of doing bad things. not what I said .. not even close tbh I answered specifically to your comment that Obama did something he believed in ..... nothing to do with accusations of what other people have or haven't done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 41 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Someone else did something bad, therefore nobody can be accused of doing bad things. Someone talked one way and acted another. Someone else talked one way and acted exactly as it said on the tin. This is a very reasonable response and following the latest hashtag #whataboutism trend doesn't change that. Obama was a disgrace for a large number of things he did, neoliberism 101. The Dakota access pipeline being the absolute cherry on top. I expressly prohibit you from getting any more than 95% of the way to having this finished. You what? The US regained it's status as a top oil producer under the Bush/Obama presidencies, but mainly post the Great Recession (tm) and Obama. Caring about the environment by getting people to shower instead of taking a bath, oh and recycle your small amount of personal waste too, super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2018 I didn't set out to get into a debate about Obama Vs Trump. I've presented a list of reasons why I think Trump is dangerous and am now being shoehorned into arguing the rights and wrongs of the Obama administration. I've been on VT for long enough that I'm not falling into this death spiral again. Back to debating my original post (all of it) or count me out. Ta. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I'm not ashamed to admit that I sometimes think I'm still wearing glasses when I'm not. Same with wearing a hat, once you've worn it for a few hours you get indents in your head that make it feel like you're still wearing it once you've taken it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Xela said: I think he's offering us some clue about what's on his mind, acting out a little mime. Something on the lines of removing his ability to see clearly what's in front of him. He pretends to be scrutinising things, but he's telling us he's not actually trying to see. His subconscious is betraying him. That will be $10,000, please, Senator. Next week we can discuss your relationship with your mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: I didn't set out to get into a debate about Obama Vs Trump. I've presented a list of reasons why I think Trump is dangerous and am now being shoehorned into arguing the rights and wrongs of the Obama administration. I've been on VT for long enough that I'm not falling into this death spiral again. Back to debating my original post (all of it) or count me out. Ta. That wasn't my intention. It's more that I'm sick of hearing all these new people who suddenly care so much about things, but only because it now costs nothing to do so given that it's so popular to be against Trump. This is not intended as a shot at you btw. The US has long been $$ above everything else, but so many who were free-wheeling because the politicians spoke sugared words, now all of a sudden are up in arms. Like Trump has really changed that much. He hasn't. This is the standard to and fro of US politics. The GE/GM CEO will say that it's bad to pull out of Paris, yet they move(d) all their super polluting industry to China or somewhere else. This morn Ford basically announced that they are giving up on the low cost car segment as the profit and the sales are in SUVs etc., which have lower CAFE standards or some such loop hole. Americans care so much about the environment that SUV/Truck sales are growing growing growing. Similarly oil production has grown grown grown, while we all pretend that we care about the environment more now. This would be what circles back to why I don't really see pulling out of Paris as such a disaster. Pretending to solve the problem does nothing. It's all a big PR game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted January 17, 2018 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, villakram said: Pretending to solve the problem does nothing. It's all a big PR game. I agree with a lot of your post, but the last sentence quoted, I don’t. Because what Trump has done isn’t to stop pretending, it’s to deny there’s a problem at all. It’s true that the steps taken are insufficient, and that there’s plenty of gaming the system like you say, but the overall direction has by and large been positive until Trump’s idiocy. And that’s the case for most other areas of major importance. He’s reversed the general direction and for the worse. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: I didn't set out to get into a debate about Obama Vs Trump. I've presented a list of reasons why I think Trump is dangerous and am now being shoehorned into arguing the rights and wrongs of the Obama administration. I've been on VT for long enough that I'm not falling into this death spiral again. Back to debating my original post (all of it) or count me out. Ta. Tbf you shoehorned yourself into it with a false claim about Obama ... but I was also looking for a way out the conversation without appearing to ignore you so we are at a good point now and can move it back to Trump 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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