Rugeley Villa Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, blandy said: I think you've got a point, or at least I understand the point, I think, Ruge. Yet on the other hand (although not on the horrific scale of the Vegas slaughter, there are mass shooting incidents basically every day (9 every 10 days on average), and so there'd basically be no opportunity to protesting against anything if "a period of solidarity" was required after each shooting incident. The other comment that people have made is that generally speaking, there are lots of people (I don't mean you) who are angrier about people protesting about black folk being racially victimised than there are people angry about a lunatic gun maniac killing and injuring hundreds of people. I've also seen that this National Flag ceremony at the NFL football games thing only started a few years ago (2009) specifically at the request of the then Gov't to act as a recruiting tool for the US military who were short of numbers - it's not like it's a long-standing tradition being subverted. The authorities were happy to use the flag to recruit soldiers, marines and sailors etc. (which is fair enough, I suppose) but then it's hard to complain that people being treated horribly unfairly to say the least, shouldn't peacefully and respectfully kneel down during the recruiting tool ceremony to highlight the injustice. But along there lines you've mentioned that the US seems to go big on the flag, if it (rightly or wrongly) causes a large majority of people to be almost against the people protesting about discrimination, then it's counter productive - like so much that seems to go on over there. The thing is if you had a show of solidarity everytime there was a shooting you wouldn't have time to take a piss let alone play a game of football. It's become the norm over there and a lot of folk accept it which they shouldn't I know. We have a minute silence over here for anything and it won't be long before we are having them for people's cats dying. Now I'm all for these protests as I think the police over here are bastards at times let alone what those clearings in the woods are doing in the states, but I just think it should of been put to one side for a few days after the vegas incident, but that's just my opinion. There are times when that national anthem should have full respect shown. I'm not anti black and if I was living in a city over there I'd probably be out on the protest throwing bricks and bottles at the police. Edited October 4, 2017 by Rugeley Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Another thing is, I'd hate to be a cop over there too. Plenty of decent cops get blasted away for just pulling people over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I'd never doubt their commitment to their country, but they shouldn't be doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Would a lot of black people be protesting if there weren't as many black people getting shot dead?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I'd never doubt their commitment to their country, but they shouldn't be doing that. Couldn't disagree more mate. They more than any other are a group of people whose Patriotism can't be questioned by that prat Trump. Their actions are clear, that this has nothing to do with disrespect for the flag. I think its fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, av1 said: Couldn't disagree more mate. They more than any other are a group of people whose Patriotism can't be questioned by that prat Trump. Their actions are clear, that this has nothing to do with disrespect for the flag. I think its fantastic. Exactly. Now I want to see Trump say something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 49 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: if I was living in a city over there I'd probably be out on the protest throwing bricks and bottles at the police. 36 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Another thing is, I'd hate to be a cop over there too. Okaaayyy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 That's the whole point of the protest... if it was proportionate then scarily no one might have an issue but it's massively disproportionate, police shooting people, people shooting people, people in jail (scariest of the lot) it's ridiculously disproportionate the worst of it for me is the criticism that these athletes are privelaged, they're role models by and large from the same background as those who are disadvantaged the whole thing has been shockingly badly handled, Americans don't seem to understand what the point of things are they just buy in to whatever agenda suits them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Would a lot of black people be protesting if there weren't as many black people getting shot dead?? No. No, there wouldn't. If there weren't racialised violence directed against black people by the state and many of its citizens, there would be less support for demonstrations calling for an end to racialised violence. Is that surprising to anyone, I wonder? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 38 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Another thing is, I'd hate to be a cop over there too. Plenty of decent cops get blasted away for just pulling people over. That's one thing I do agree with...it's a scary job, some of them seem to have piss poor training too undertrained, underqualified, scared people with guns convinced the other person is going to shoot them thats the cop and the criminal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, peterms said: Okaaayyy... It's a genuine question. People can take that how they want and say I'm this and that, but like I said it's a genuine question. Don't see how I'm contradicting myself if I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: That's one thing I do agree with...it's a scary job, some of them seem to have piss poor training too undertrained, underqualified, scared people with guns convinced the other person is going to shoot them thats the cop and the criminal Was on about this at work. If you're out on the beat and you know the environment you're in is full of guns and violent, then you are more prone to being trigger happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 My old grandad said the yanks have always been trigger happy. He was on about them in war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: It's a genuine question. People can take that how they want and say I'm this and that, but like I said it's a genuine question. Don't see how I'm contradicting myself if I'm honest. You have just said that - there are so many of these incidents that you can't call for commemoration of each - this one should be commemorated by people coming together by showing respect for the national anthem - if you were over there you would be attacking the police - but you disagree with non-violent, symbolic protests like kneeling down during the national anthem, because in this instance, something (scale, possibly?) makes this set of murders somehow different from the daily occurrence Yes, that seems confused, to me. The kneeling protests are against racialised violence. Kneeling during the national anthem should not be confused with disrespect for another set of people who have been murdered. I don't even begin to understand the connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 4, 2017 Administrator Share Posted October 4, 2017 56 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Exactly. Now I want to see Trump say something about it. He'll probably tweet for the CiC to sack them. And then the next day tweet that he never said that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 5, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, limpid said: He'll probably tweet for the CiC to sack them. And then the next day tweet that he never said that. They’d have to be warmly sacked though and he'll never have said it in a massive way, so massive it would be a kind of miracle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 5, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 5, 2017 In other news RexTillerson has had to deny that Pence had to persuade him not to resign in the summer but then when questioned on whether he’d called Trump a moron, he said he wasn’t going to comment on the silly stuff which wasn’t exactly a denial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 hours ago, bickster said: In other news RexTillerson has had to deny that Pence had to persuade him not to resign in the summer but then when questioned on whether he’d called Trump a moron, he said he wasn’t going to comment on the silly stuff which wasn’t exactly a denial Tillerson is the adult in the room, and I wouldn't be surprised if he packs it all in soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 9 hours ago, peterms said: You have just said that - there are so many of these incidents that you can't call for commemoration of each - this one should be commemorated by people coming together by showing respect for the national anthem - if you were over there you would be attacking the police - but you disagree with non-violent, symbolic protests like kneeling down during the national anthem, because in this instance, something (scale, possibly?) makes this set of murders somehow different from the daily occurrence Yes, that seems confused, to me. The kneeling protests are against racialised violence. Kneeling during the national anthem should not be confused with disrespect for another set of people who have been murdered. I don't even begin to understand the connection. I just think it should of been put to side for a few days. Got nothing against protesting usually. Yeah if I lived in a city over there and I was seeing all that shit, then I'd probably be angry. I think it's happened over here where people have called protests off out of respect when there has been a major incident. There is a time and a place imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts