Gabby Agbonlahor

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

Even when he had well and truly outstayed his welcome, it was heartwarming like nothing else seeing him score that goal against Small Heath last season. 5 goals in 10 games against the Blues.

 

His career really mirrors the fortunes of the club the entire time he's been here. At one point young, exciting and going places, then progressively got worse and less interested to the point of embarrassment.

True....but equally, 2 wrongs don't make one right.

[markavfc40]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

We will have to disagree on this one Mark.....You clearly value his talent much higher than me.

just a few stats to ponder:

• The last 3 seasons he has scored 1 goal per season making 38 appearances in total.
• The last 5 seasons he has scored 13 goals for us in total
• In 13 seasons he has been a first team player he has scored in excess of 10 goals in 5 seasons only.
• In his career for us he has averaged 1 goal every 4.5 games
• In the last 5 seasons he has averaged 21 games per season.

The club has paid him handsomely elevating him above millionaire status.......anything they do for him, is showing class IMO.....because quite frankly they have done their bit already.

If you think he has done his bit, then that is your prerogative.

 

It is not about whether you think he is the worst player to ever pull on a Villa shirt or you put him up there with Cowans and McGrath. The facts are he has played almost 400 times for us. Been here since he was a kid. In this day and age it will be rare for us to get a player to have played that amount of games. We also have to accept managers felt he was good enough to play for the club, based on the finances we had, otherwise he'd have gotten nowhere near having played so many times.

My opinion of him as a player is irrelevant really in regard to him deserving recognition as the fact he has played so often in itself warrants recognition from the club and us as fans. For what it's worth though, and to try and balance those who happily put him down, I think he was a very good player under O'Neill, and more than held his own in some very good teams, and then up until the relegation season put a number of good performances in most seasons although lacked the consistency he had shown between 2006 and 2010. Obviously he was not helped by the fact all the good players around him, Young, Milner, Downing, Petrov, Barry, Carew etc were sold off.

I also think, given that at least half his appearances for us were from out wide, almost 90 goals in just under 400 appearances (so just over a 1 in 4 record) is decent and obviously this is enhanced by the fact many of his goals came in big games or derby games.

I am really looking forward to us as a fan base giving him a good send off tomorrow.

Edited April 27, 2018 by markavfc40

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I said that, when I said it's subjective to what you've seen. 

It would be like me saying to a 10 year old "ha, you think XXX was good? Nah, he was shit, in a shit team. When I was a kid, JPA scored 22 goals in a season!"

It wouldn't make any sense to him to know that Pongo Waring was a great player for us.  Who the hell is Pongo Waring to a 10 year old? 

I have to emphasise you are right in what you say.

but you don't always have to live through  an artists era to appreciate them.

I was born after Hitler, but I knew he was a tyrant........I was equally born after Pongo and Gerry Hitchens but knew they were legends.

Edited April 27, 2018 by TRO

[Paddywhack]

Well, he goes down as a legend in my eyes and I look forward to giving him a good send off tomorrow and to never again having to take part in this endless, repetitive discussion.

Goodnight, sweet prince x

[markavfc40]

28 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Oh right, so unless you're 30 or older, you can never say there's been any "legends"? 

So for the people like myself (at 31) who only really remembers Yorke out of that list, because while Ugo was good, he was never a legend (only applicable for dead people perhaps?) - then in my 31 years on planet Earth, I haven't seen any "legends"? 

Surely a legend is subjective to what you've seen.  I've seen very little of McGrath, I don't even remember any of the others playing, because I wasn't born.  So in my eyes, the legends are the ones who have bought me, my personal happiness during my support of the club.  

There may well be a list of club legends somewhere, but what you put is absolute bollocks, sorry. 

JPA, Carew, Barry, Southgate, Bozzie, Carew, Mellberg, Laursen, Deano, Vassell, Gabby, Young - these are MY legends.  Of course, I recognise the contributions other players of our history have brought, but I haven't seen the vast majority of their contributions, just video clips from our good matches and finals.  

If you want to be respected, you may well start respecting other peoples arbitrary lists, rather than discounting them on the basis of age. 

You make some very good points here.

I think some people need to remember that in the modern game it is highly unlikely we will see a player again play almost 400 games for us or score 90 goals. I think those basic facts alone should make it easy to see why the club and a lot of fans are keen to publicly acknowledge him and give him a good send off.

[lapal_fan]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

I have to emphasise you are right in what you say.

but you don't always have to live through a an artists era to appreciate them.

I was born after Hitler, but I knew he was a tyrant........I was equally born after Pongo and Gerry Hitchens but knew they were legends.

*plot twist*

But WAS HE? 

[Davkaus]

 

48 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Oh right, so unless you're 30 or older, you can never say there's been any "legends"? 

 

Pretty much.

Depends what you think a club legend is. For me, it's someone that even decades later, you look back and think "yep, he was one of the greatest players this club has had". 

You can be the best player in the team for years, but if that's because we have years of mediocrity, just making up the numbers towards the lower end of the league, I don't care how good a player looks in comparison to the other shit in the squad, they don't deserve to be held up there with our best players who have actually won something.

I'm in the same boat as you, in we've basically won **** all for as long as I've been a fan, but I'm not going to start holding up **** Darius Vassell up as a club legend just because I'm too young to have seen our best players in action.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Davkaus

[lapal_fan]

Just now, Davkaus said:

 

Pretty much.

Depends what you think a club legend is. For me, it's someone that even decades later, you look back and think "yep, he was one of the greatest players this club has had". 

You can be the best player in the team for years, but if that's because we have years of mediocrity, just making up the numbers towards the lower end of the league, I don't care how good a player looks in comparison to the other shit in the squad, they don't deserve to be held up there with our best players who have actually won something.

How about Milner, Young, Barry - people who did well for us, but then went on to win titles and trohpies then? They're legends because they've won something? 

It's a team game, as much influence 1 person can have, there are factors which dictate that they cannot win countless games by themselves.  Just because a really good player comes and doesn't win anything, doesn't mean they should be stricken from the legend (at club level) status. 

[Paddywhack]

11 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Darius Vassell

Legend.

[TRO]

50 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

It is not about whether you think he is the worst player to ever pull on a Villa shirt or you put him up there with Cowans and McGrath. The facts are he has played almost 400 times for us. Been here since he was a kid. In this day and age it will be rare for us to get a player to have played that amount of games. We also have to accept managers felt he was good enough to play for the club, based on the finances we had, otherwise he'd have gotten nowhere near having played so many times.

My opinion of him as a player is irrelevant really in regard to him deserving recognition as the fact he has played so often in itself warrants recognition from the club and us as fans. For what its worth though, and to try and balance those who happily put him down, I think he was a very good player under O'Neill, and more than held his own in some very good teams, and then up until the relegation season put a number of good performances in most seasons although lacked the consistency he had shown between 2006 and 2010. Obviously he was not helped by the fact all the good players around him, Young, Milner, Downing, Petrov, Barry, Carew etc were sold off.

I also think, given that at least half his appearances for us were from out wide, almost 90 goals in just under 400 appearances (so just over a 1 in 4 record) is decent and obviously this is enhanced by the fact many of his goals came in big games or derby games.

I am really looking forward to us as a fan base giving him a good send off tomorrow.

• well, I don't happily put him down, i think that is an indictment on the club, we should be happily building him up, but I am unable to do so......a member of my family knows him, so if anything I should be biased towards him.
• The  games is where I differ from you, the 391 games he has played for us and 86 goals is not a great return for me....Allan Evans scored 51 in 380 games and as you know he was a centre half.
• as for the playing out on the wing, if he was prolific, he would have been played centrally, he was just accomodated for his pace....blimey Adomah has scored 14 this year, admittedly in the championship from out wide.Gabby only exceeded that in one season 2009-10.

The other points I have covered in previous posts about playing in an era of club decline......of which he has been paid handsomely.

but hey! at the end of the day, I respect YOUR opinion of him, I will probably end up applauding him out of respect of his longevity.....I hope you enjoy the moment.....lets hope we win.

Edited April 27, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

37 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

*plot twist*

But WAS HE? 

yeah

[Paddywhack]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

yeah

Yeah, he has got you there to be fair @lapal_fan. No matter what you think of Gabby, I think we can all agree Hitler was a wrong un.

[Mark Albrighton]

It’s an interesting one.

I’d say Mellberg was the most recent Villa “legend”. 

Before that (and after God), I’d say Yorke was and Barry too. But because of the way they left, I’m not as quick to eulogise them which is perhaps unfair. *

It’s not the number of appearances or goals (although that can help). It’s the players who supporters have a connection with, who appear to have taken the club to their heart. Possibly why the Delph thing pissed off so many, he could easily have been called a legend at the club.

For me, I wouldn’t describe Gabby as a legend. He’s had a number of great moments but too many embarrassing ones that have left me feeling fairly indifferent to him. I honestly only ever think about him when I see his name pop up on at the top of the page.

He deserves a round of applause, his name sung once more and then we can all move on.

*Edit - I’d include Ian Taylor too thinking about it, that’s more to do with his love of the club and the fans love of him, as opposed to his ability (although he wasn’t short of that either)

Edited April 27, 2018 by Shropshire Lad

[TRO]

47 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

You make some very good points here.

I think some people need to remember that in the modern game it is highly unlikely we will see a player again play almost 400 games for us or score 90 goals. I think those basic facts alone should make it easy to see why the club and a lot of fans are keen to publicly acknowledge him and give him a good send off.

I accept the sentiments behind that claim.

But for me, personally i am motivated by quality not quantity.....by making that statement, I am not at all dismissing his allegiance to the club. I believe he loves the club and on that basis it is registered with me as a major plus.

but I cannot ignore Mark, The club have paid him very,very well for a very debatable career, like the curates egg, good in parts.....particularly in the last 5 years.

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

Yeah, he has got you there to be fair @lapal_fan. No matter what you think of Gabby, I think we can all agree Hitler was a wrong un.

OMG I have no idea what you are on about.....I am not comparing Gabby with Hitler......Read the post.

I am talking about not having to live through the era of anyone to know their past.

I am puzzled how you gleaned that....but maybe never got your humour.

Edited April 27, 2018 by TRO

[Paddywhack]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

OMG I have no idea what you are on about.....I am not comparing Gabby with Hitler......Read the post.

I am talking about not having to live through the era of anyone to know their past.

I am puzzled how you gleaned that.

I hadn't gleaned that at all, ironically. I just thought it'd be funny to call Hitler a wrong un.

[lapal_fan]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I accept the sentiments behind that claim.

But for me, personally i am motivated by quality not quantity.....by making that statement, I am not at all dismissing his allegiance to the club. I believe he loves the club and on that basis it is registered with me as a major plus.

but I cannot ignore Mark, The club have paid him very,very well for a very debatable career, like the curates egg, good in parts.....particularly in the last 5 years.

What the club chose to pay him, is not his fault.

If you were offered 60k a week (and he's not on that anymore..), for 4 years - would you turn it down? 

And despite his "application", which has been questionable and at points, terrible - that money is his "normality".  He'd have behaved that way on 15k a week, but because he wouldn't have had the "biggest contract" at the club, the hyperbole towards him would have been minuscule compared to what it has been.

As far as I'm concerned with Gabby, is that when his performance dropped as heavily as it did, that was under the whole Lerner stopped putting the cash into the club, we began to have a loser mentality from the top, and it filters down. 

I've experienced it in my own career to date.  Directors wanting out, it filters down.  Yes, you work as "hard" as you can, but when you know you're fighting not just other opposition, but your own clubs ambitions, it can't be easy. 

Obviously, I look at it more holistically than others, but I feel it's true. 

A limited player, who gave me good moments and he bought and signed a shirt for me on my birthday (through a friend).  

Thanks for the good moments, we move on. 

 

[lapal_fan]

2 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I hadn't gleaned that at all, ironically. I just thought it'd be funny to call Hitler a wrong un.

How'd you know, have you met him? 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I hadn't gleaned that at all, ironically. I just thought it'd be funny to call Hitler a wrong un.

Oh, Ok.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

What the club chose to pay him, is not his fault.

If you were offered 60k a week (and he's not on that anymore..), for 4 years - would you turn it down? 

And despite his "application", which has been questionable and at points, terrible - that money is his "normality".  He'd have behaved that way on 15k a week, but because he wouldn't have had the "biggest contract" at the club, the hyperbole towards him would have been minuscule compared to what it has been.

As far as I'm concerned with Gabby, is that when his performance dropped as heavily as it did, that was under the whole Lerner stopped putting the cash into the club, we began to have a loser mentality from the top, and it filters down. 

I've experienced it in my own career to date.  Directors wanting out, it filters down.  Yes, you work as "hard" as you can, but when you know you're fighting not just other opposition, but your own clubs ambitions, it can't be easy. 

Obviously, I look at it more holistically than others, but I feel it's true. 

A limited player, who gave me good moments and he bought and signed a shirt for me on my birthday (through a friend).  

Thanks for the good moments, we move on. 

 

Fair Comment

No,......but I would turn up.

I accept all what you say.....my problem is I have never rated him like some have and for me the whole situation has got worse not better......I am not really just basing my sentiments on his goals return alone its just watching him play, is my main downer on him, the lack of Nous in the box and intelligent movement, the inability to dribble past a player.....its was always just raw pace and not much else, sorry.

FWIW Its only my thoughts and I guess i am in the minority.

Edited April 27, 2018 by TRO