GarethRDR Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 That's symptomatic of the wider problem of the diving culture, which is not an issue that should be addressed piecemeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I disagree. Yellow cards are produced for fouls and other offences, most of which are part and parcel of the game. The yellow card serves to discourage the player from committing a similar offence in the game again and the opposition are rewarded with a free kick (usually). This is all part of the game, but I do not see how suspending large amounts of players for the final of the Champions League can be considered 'part of the game'. Most yellow cards are handed out for petty fouls and mistakes, yet the resulting bans in no way reflect the magnitude of the offences (most of the time). Suspension shouldnt be as prominant in our game as it is, when you take a step back and look at it, it really is very stupid that half of Chelseas side won't be allowed to play in the final because of a couple of cheap yellow cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2012 but I do not see how suspending large amounts of players for the final of the Champions League can be considered 'part of the game'Really? They're not banned specifically for the final. The final happens to be the game they're due their suspension in. If it was a quarter final they'd be banned for that. Chelsea and Bayern WILL be in the final. The individual players within those squads do not have a divine right to play in those finals irrespective of what they got up to to get there. Other players will come in. That's what a squad is for. I also disagree that yellow cards in no way reflect the magnitude of the offence, most of the time or otherwise. Most yellow cards are dished out for incidents that deserve a yellow card. Whether it be going through the back of someone, cynically breaking up an imminent counter-attack, questioning the referee's parentage, simulation, time-wasting. All of the above in some way are helping your team towards the goal of reaching the final. If you end up suspended by doing it then so be it. Take your medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 As much as we'd like there to be different shades of yellow, there aren't. Eh? Couldn't disagree more. As it is with just about every aspect of refereeing in football, the determination of whether a foul should be given, and whether it deserves a yellow or a red card, is always very arbitrary and subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffoman Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 How about the first Peno last night? His hand was behind him as he was hit with the ball. Clearly unintentional and almost impossible to avoid yet he now misses the biggest game of his career because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Meireles yellow in the game Tuesday night was a dive, in my opinion. The player was on his way to the ground before he even got to him and then did the Ashley Young leg drag thing to try and make contact. Ivanovic was rightfully booked, but then the only reason he was booked was because he was arguing a wrong decision from the referee. Diving and shit refs should not be reasons you miss the Final, or any other game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Succinctly put, Kurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 but I do not see how suspending large amounts of players for the final of the Champions League can be considered 'part of the game'Really? They're not banned specifically for the final. The final happens to be the game they're due their suspension in. If it was a quarter final they'd be banned for that. Chelsea and Bayern WILL be in the final. The individual players within those squads do not have a divine right to play in those finals irrespective of what they got up to to get there. Other players will come in. That's what a squad is for. I also disagree that yellow cards in no way reflect the magnitude of the offence, most of the time or otherwise. Most yellow cards are dished out for incidents that deserve a yellow card. Whether it be going through the back of someone, cynically breaking up an imminent counter-attack, questioning the referee's parentage, simulation, time-wasting. All of the above in some way are helping your team towards the goal of reaching the final. If you end up suspended by doing it then so be it. Take your medicine. My 'beef' is really more to do with the ease with which a player can pick up a ban, the Champions League final has just served to highlight this concern. I just don't think bans should form part of the game, unless they're for a serious offence. Poor tackles, diving etc are all dealt with on the field of play. Excessive amounts of yellow cards should undoubtedly lead to a suspension, but I just think it's weighted poorly at the moment. I'd be far happier if a player picked up a suspension after picking up 5 yellow cards, as it is in the Premier League. My opinion is that a ban should only be used to discourage and punish serious foul play; mis-timing a couple of tackles is always going to happen, and suspending players for it isn't going to change the game (for the better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 It should be a great final. I much prefer to watch this than another classico, as much as I enjoy watching Barca play. Still can't believe they contrived to lose, mind. Great performance by Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2012 As much as we'd like there to be different shades of yellow, there aren't. Eh? Couldn't disagree more. As it is with just about every aspect of refereeing in football, the determination of whether a foul should be given, and whether it deserves a yellow or a red card, is always very arbitrary and subjective.I'm not talking wishywahy subjective shite. I'm talking about the card that's in the ref's pocket. There is only one yellow card in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2012 My opinion is that a ban should only be used to discourage and punish serious foul play; mis-timing a couple of tackles is always going to happen, and suspending players for it isn't going to change the game (for the better).I agree with that, but that's a separate issue. That's an issue of how easy it is to get a yellow card. Not an issue of how stringent the punishment once you've received them. I accept that it should perhaps be more difficult to get a yellow card in some situations but my beef is with the notion that once you have one, it should be thrown away for a final. There are a couple of things here, none of which are solved by having a yellow amnesty for a final. Yellows are too easy to pick up. Solution, make it harder to get them. Diving sometimes happens, resulting in wrongful booking. Solution, make it so that divers can be retrospectively punished and individual yellows can be rescinded - something you can't currently do. You want to fix the issues around the receiving of a yellow card in the first place. You won't do that by changing the consequences of having one. That's a back-to-front way of doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I agree with BOF. Know your limits (Master Wayne) and don't rely on fouling your way to the final. Also if you're on a yellow don't make a stupid cynical challenge (Badstuber). Moron. Thought young Toni Kroos had an outstanding game last night, adn I was very impressed by Marcelo. Ribery, Robben, Pepe, Di Maria all outrageous divers. And how wasn't Gustavo sent off? He fouled Ozil alone enough times to be off. It was like he was Kevin Davies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 but I do not see how suspending large amounts of players for the final of the Champions League can be considered 'part of the game'Really? They're not banned specifically for the final. The final happens to be the game they're due their suspension in. If it was a quarter final they'd be banned for that. Chelsea and Bayern WILL be in the final. The individual players within those squads do not have a divine right to play in those finals irrespective of what they got up to to get there. Other players will come in. That's what a squad is for. I also disagree that yellow cards in no way reflect the magnitude of the offence, most of the time or otherwise. Most yellow cards are dished out for incidents that deserve a yellow card. Whether it be going through the back of someone, cynically breaking up an imminent counter-attack, questioning the referee's parentage, simulation, time-wasting. All of the above in some way are helping your team towards the goal of reaching the final. If you end up suspended by doing it then so be it. Take your medicine. Spot on. On another note, if Chelsea win the final and finish 6th in the league, does that mean they qualify for CL next year at the expense of the 4th place club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 So I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 26, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 26, 2012 No-one wants to watch Bosingwa and Kalou.Their mums do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 As much as we'd like there to be different shades of yellow, there aren't. Eh? Couldn't disagree more. As it is with just about every aspect of refereeing in football, the determination of whether a foul should be given, and whether it deserves a yellow or a red card, is always very arbitrary and subjective.I'm not talking wishywahy subjective shite. I'm talking about the card that's in the ref's pocket. There is only one yellow card in football. Fair enough. I actually agree with your stance that cards should be "carried over" to cup finals - what I do not see the sense in is the strange rule FIFA and UEFA have that dictates that yellow cards cannot be rescinded post-match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2012 Fully agree on that. If a yellow can result in a ban and a yellow (just like a red) can be given in error then there is absolutely no reason why a yellow should not be rescindable after the event. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I know this is CL semi final thread but there is no Europa thread so.. anyone watching Athletic Bilbao vs Sporting? cracking first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingsombrero Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Bilbao vs Sporting has been absolutely fantastic so far. Action, atmosphere, incident and now beautifully poised. Loving every minute!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Tiago just got a red card for stupidity. A penalty was awarded for Valencia for nothing but he slapped Soldado and stood on somebody else and then penalty was reversed/ Simeone was on pitch as peacemaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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