Scottish Independence

[TrentVilla]

 

Scottish Life, owned by Royal London are in the process of being re-branded, I can't help but wonder if this vote has had an influence upon that.

I thought they'd done that ages ago. Scottish Life over here was renamed Royal London 360 a few years back.

 

 

No not yet but its a gradual process which they've started.

[Ads]

Be interesting to see what would happen with the armed forces.

 

They'd have to wave goodbye to the Clyde building billion pound war canoes for the Royal Navy.

[lapal_fan]

All of Scotchland will just turn into one big Glasgow and not even the Scotch themselves like Glasgow.

[AshVilla]

Any chance we can dig a trench on the border of Scotland for all the tears to drip into if they vote yes because it will all end in tears

[Enda]

 

If they vote yes and leave the UK and therefore outside of the EU for a period yet to be decided, what does that mean for cross border travel from Scotland to the rest of the UK?

One of a long list of questions there is no answer too

 

No side have all the reason in the world to drum up uncertainty. For example, Salmond has said what he wants for currency union. London has replied "Oh, we'll see."

 

It's a unique situation from the EU too. Nobody has ever left, but wanted to join the EU. They don't have a protocol for this, so there's uncertainty. But it would be a disaster for Scotland (or any other member, UK included) to leave the EU for a long period of time. And it would fracture the solidarity ("ever closer union") the EU is supposed to be based on. I'd imagine Scotland would be let back in within 18 months.

[Brumerican]

Be interesting to see what would happen with the armed forces.

 

They'd have to wave goodbye to the Clyde building billion pound war canoes for the Royal Navy.

Not at all . In fact they are banking on selling ships to what's left of the UK's Navy .

[TrentVilla]

 

 

If they vote yes and leave the UK and therefore outside of the EU for a period yet to be decided, what does that mean for cross border travel from Scotland to the rest of the UK?

One of a long list of questions there is no answer too

 

No side have all the reason in the world to drum up uncertainty. For example, Salmond has said what he wants for currency union. London has replied "Oh, we'll see."

 

It's a unique situation from the EU too. Nobody has ever left, but wanted to join the EU. They don't have a protocol for this, so there's uncertainty. But it would be a disaster for Scotland (or any other member, UK included) to leave the EU for a long period of time. And it would fracture the solidarity ("ever closer union") the EU is supposed to be based on. I'd imagine Scotland would be let back in within 18 months.

 

 

That is one pretty confused post, not even sure what you are saying in the first line.

 

As for the currency situation the Government have been very clear that currency union isn't on the cards if they vote yes.

 

As for the EU, if Scotland votes yes and leaves the UK and in turn the EU there is absolutely no chance of them becoming members in their own right within 18 months.

 

 

Be interesting to see what would happen with the armed forces.

 

They'd have to wave goodbye to the Clyde building billion pound war canoes for the Royal Navy.

 

Not at all . In fact they are banking on selling ships to what's left of the UK's Navy .

 

 

That won't happen. Those jobs lost in Portsmouth will be open again, the decision in the first place was politically motivated and in a post yes vote world those contracts will be going elsewhere in future.

[Brumerican]

If they vote yes and leave the UK and therefore outside of the EU for a period yet to be decided, what does that mean for cross border travel from Scotland to the rest of the UK?

One of a long list of questions there is no answer too

 

No side have all the reason in the world to drum up uncertainty. For example, Salmond has said what he wants for currency union. London has replied "Oh, we'll see."

 

It's a unique situation from the EU too. Nobody has ever left, but wanted to join the EU. They don't have a protocol for this, so there's uncertainty. But it would be a disaster for Scotland (or any other member, UK included) to leave the EU for a long period of time. And it would fracture the solidarity ("ever closer union") the EU is supposed to be based on. I'd imagine Scotland would be let back in within 18 months.

 

That is one pretty confused post, not even sure what you are saying in the first line.

 

As for the currency situation the Government have been very clear that currency union isn't on the cards if they vote yes.

 

As for the EU, if Scotland votes yes and leaves the UK and in turn the EU there is absolutely no chance of them becoming members in their own right within 18 months.

Be interesting to see what would happen with the armed forces.

 

They'd have to wave goodbye to the Clyde building billion pound war canoes for the Royal Navy.

Not at all . In fact they are banking on selling ships to what's left of the UK's Navy .

 

That won't happen. Those jobs lost in Portsmouth will be open again, the decision in the first place was politically motivated and in a post yes vote world those contracts will be going elsewhere in future.

Well we know that but I reckon Newcastle is more likely tbh .

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I see Dave is finally getting off his arse and going to Scotland.

 

Was beginning to wonder of Gordo got back in charge without us noticing.

[TrentVilla]

 

Well we know that but I reckon Newcastle is more likely tbh .

 

 

Jobs in the north rather than jobs in the south? Can't see that myself with this government personally.

[blandy]

That won't happen. Those jobs lost in Portsmouth will be open again, the decision in the first place was politically motivated and in a post yes vote world those contracts will be going elsewhere in future.

I'm not quite so sure it's that simple. If the Clyde shipyard is the only one left open that's capable of doing the work, then why would a shipbuilding company go to the expense of building/re-building a new yard in England, when they already have one in Scotland?

I guess if we all split up, then Portsmouth or Plymouth locals would lobby their   English Gov't MPs to try and get the work done in their area, rather than Scotland, but whther they'd be successful, who knows. It's the sort of thing that would end up being a bargaining chip between the English and Scottish Gov'ts - maybe over oil revenue, or share of debt, or whatever.

 

It seems to me, generally, that the whole debate has boiled down to a couple of simple things

1. If you vote "yes, scotland should be an Independent nation" you will never get the effing tories governing you again and we'll keep our opil revenue  - it's a really powerful argument to vote yes.

2. if you vote "no, scotland should not be independent" then you are voting to keep the security blanket provided by being a long established Union, with all the stability and assurance that comes with that - currency stability, jobs  stability and so on. 

 

Much of the stuff that's chuntered on about is (to my reading) not fixed or firm either way. The No side saying "you'll have no money, you'll all lose your jobs,  you won't be allowed in Europe, no will care for you" is basically scaremongering in the most part.

And the Yes camp are doing the opposite- painting everything in a gloriously optimistic light, without actually having much evidence that this is the case.

 

If I was able to vote, I'd go for "Yes" - because while I think Salmond is an absolute rocket polisher, the potential to have control over the country you live in is a powerful one. the potential to never have the shiny faced tory words removed ever have control over you is a winner, for me.

 

The rest can be worked out, and over time would be. The world won't end, but it'd hopefully bring about a big change in the rotten system that is in place at the moment for all of the (current) UK

[GENTLEMAN]

[TrentVilla]

 

That won't happen. Those jobs lost in Portsmouth will be open again, the decision in the first place was politically motivated and in a post yes vote world those contracts will be going elsewhere in future.

I'm not quite so sure it's that simple. If the Clyde shipyard is the only one left open that's capable of doing the work, then why would a shipbuilding company go to the expense of building/re-building a new yard in England, when they already have one in Scotland?

I guess if we all split up, then Portsmouth or Plymouth locals would lobby their   English Gov't MPs to try and get the work done in their area, rather than Scotland, but whther they'd be successful, who knows. It's the sort of thing that would end up being a bargaining chip between the English and Scottish Gov'ts - maybe over oil revenue, or share of debt, or whatever.

 

I largely agree with most of your post but in regards Portsmouth, I'm not sure I said it was simple but I do think that a yes vote would lead to future UK Government contracts going elsewhere. I'm fully aware this is an area you have more first had knowledge in than me so i don't presume to be right however my thinking is that there are currently I understand companies bidding to takeover the yard in Portsmouth.

Assuming on is successful and that the workforce and assets of the yard haven't been completely stripped then it is quite likely that there will still be a functioning yard in Portsmouth in the future.

 

In that scenario I think it is highly likely that they will bid for future navy contracts and be viewed as preferable for lots of reasons to the yard in Scotland.

I'm not talking about the current contract(s) as that ship has sailed if you pardon the choice of phrase.

[Enda]

 

 

 

That is one pretty confused post, not even sure what you are saying in the first line.

 

As for the currency situation the Government have been very clear that currency union isn't on the cards if they vote yes.

 

As for the EU, if Scotland votes yes and leaves the UK and in turn the EU there is absolutely no chance of them becoming members in their own right within 18 months.

 

Don't mix up your failure to understand with me being confused.

 

The currency union is on the cards, trust me. Ask (Nobel Prize winning) economist Joe Stiglitz what's the best outcome for both parties and his answer is simple. Ask (Nobel Prize winning, and Scottish) economist Jim Mirrlees what's the best response if the UK doesn't permit currency union, and he says to walk away from their share of national debt. £100bn on the table here. Think the UK government will say it's "off the table" when you're talking about £2000 per man, woman and child? Would you be happy if your government made you pay £2000 to avoid a currency union with Scotland, Trent?

 

Absolutely no chance of Scotland being EU members within 18 months of independence, eh? Put your money where you mouth is. What odds will you offer me?

[villaajax]

 

 

Well we know that but I reckon Newcastle is more likely tbh .

 

 

Jobs in the north rather than jobs in the south? Can't see that myself with this government personally.

 

 

It's manual labour, what else are Northerners for?

[Ads]

We might as well give the next £6 billion contract to Northrop Gruman to build carriers as give it to BAE to build ships in Scotland. They might come with cats and traps then.

[blandy]

That would depend if the gov't of the day changes what it wants half way through or not, Ads

[Enda]

Also if anyone is looking for me to back up my claims:

 

Opposition to currency union with Scotland is a bluff, says top economist (Guardian article, August 2014)

""I have been a little bit shocked at how much of it is based on fear, trying to get anxiety levels up and how little of it has been based on vision," Stiglitz said, referring to the anti-independence campaign... For the most part, I think these are bluffs. Whatever the outcome, there's going to be a negotiation and people are going to be looking at what's in the best interests of both parties, and there will be negotiations," he said"

  How Easily Could an Independent Scotland Join the EU? (Oxford Dept of Law research paper, July 2014)

"This paper maintains that despite assertions to the contrary from UK lawyers, EU 

lawyers and EU officials, any future independent Scotland’s EU membership should 

be assured, and its transition from EU membership qua part of the UK, to EU 

membership qua independent Scotland relatively smooth and straightforward. In other 

words, it would take the form of an internal enlargement2 of the EU using the 

procedure for treaty amendment in Article 48 TEU. These arguments are made on the 

basis of EU law itself, which, it is argued, provide all the resources necessary to 

assure an independent Scotland’s EU membership through EU treaty amendment, and 

not through a cumbersome accession process as a new member state. In particular, the 

values, norms and ‘special ethos’ of the EU, expressed in concepts such as EU 

citizenship, fundamental rights and duties of loyalty, combine to provide a reasoned 

justification for such internal enlargement."

[Enda]

We might as well give the next £6 billion contract to Northrop Gruman to build carriers as give it to BAE to build ships in Scotland. They might come with cats and traps then.

You should give it to whichever company can it do it best. Get as good value for the taxpayer as you can. As long as they're allies, doesn't matter whether it's US or UK or Swedish or whatever. Irish Navy buys its boats off the UK.

[Enda]

 Irish Navy buys its boats off the UK.

 

And for patrol vehicles they look class, btw. Well done Babcock.