The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[TrentVilla]

Last season we were flirting with relegation up until 2 games before the season finished. Which is why i find it strange that people are already assuming we will finish bottom half. Still alot to play for and were only 6 points off Liverpool.

Two big differences though between this season and last.

1. We improved as the season went, largely due to the arrival of Bent in the January.

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

Our team wasn't improved in January this year and we have no improved in the second half of the season and show no real signs of doing so even if we did beat Fulham.

You are correct in what you say in relation to Liverpool and you are right to say it isn't certain we will finish in the bottom half of the table.

I still think we will though based on everything I've seen of both our side this season and McLeish throughout his time in the Premier League.

[Eames]

Last season we were flirting with relegation up until 2 games before the season finished. Which is why i find it strange that people are already assuming we will finish bottom half. Still alot to play for and were only 6 points off Liverpool.

Two big differences though between this season and last.

1. We improved as the season went, largely due to the arrival of Bent in the January.

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

Our team wasn't improved in January this year and we have no improved in the second half of the season and show no real signs of doing so even if we did beat Fulham.

You are correct in what you say in relation to Liverpool and you are right to say it isn't certain we will finish in the bottom half of the table.

I still think we will though based on everything I've seen of both our side this season and McLeish throughout his time in the Premier League.

Like when he built a team that finished 9th? For example?

:?

[PussEKatt]

Last season we were flirting with relegation up until 2 games before the season finished. Which is why i find it strange that people are already assuming we will finish bottom half. Still alot to play for and were only 6 points off Liverpool.

The only reason we were in trouble is because GH was in hospital and G McA had to take over as caretaker manager.

As far as I am concerned we are safe from relegation this season,mainly because the teams below us are in real trouble.

I am just saying that considering McDipstick has had 8 months,and he has had a chance to buy his players ( Given,Nzogbia,Keen ) and we are definately playing his style of football ...........we should be higher up the table,the reason we are not must be because he does'ent know what he is trying to do ?

[Mantis]

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

That's not entirely true. We were already on a good run when Houllier had that heart scare.

[TrentVilla]

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

That's not entirely true. We were already on a good run when Houllier had that heart scare.

We had won 2 of the previous 6 games, drawn 1 and lost 3.

[PussEKatt]

The big question is this,

Do you think McDipstick is taking us in the right direction ?

[Mantis]

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

That's not entirely true. We were already on a good run when Houllier had that heart scare.

We had won 2 of the previous 6 games, drawn 1 and lost 3.

Or looking at it from a different angle, we'd won the two most previous games and drawn the one before that.

[TrentVilla]

Like when he built a team that finished 9th? For example?

:?

That will be the team he built that he then took down.

[TrentVilla]

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

That's not entirely true. We were already on a good run when Houllier had that heart scare.

We had won 2 of the previous 6 games, drawn 1 and lost 3.

Or looking at it from a different angle, we'd won the two most previous games and drawn the one before that.

Indeed only I think when you are talking about a "good run" you need to be talking about more than 2 games. In any case, my other point was that we improved post January with the arrival of Bent.

My original point is I just don't see any reason to believe we will enjoy a similar end of season run that we did last season.

[Mantis]

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

That's not entirely true. We were already on a good run when Houllier had that heart scare.

We had won 2 of the previous 6 games, drawn 1 and lost 3.

Or looking at it from a different angle, we'd won the two most previous games and drawn the one before that.

Indeed only I think when you are talking about a "good run" you need to be talking about more than 2 games.

Well you spoke of how our fortunes improved once we were forced into the change, but in actual fact our fortunes had already improved.

[Eames]

Like when he built a team that finished 9th? For example?

:?

That will be the team he built that he then took down.

With **** all money and an owner that then spent half the season in the nick.

Give the bloke a chance.... what he did or didn't do with the Blues has no bearing or what he will or will not do with Villa.

Redknapp has the same number of relegations and a tophy with a "small" club before he took the Spurs job.... lets see what AMc can build. If I'm wrong I'm happy to wear a Blues shirt with "Yes AMC is shite" on the back."

[TrentVilla]

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

That's not entirely true. We were already on a good run when Houllier had that heart scare.

We had won 2 of the previous 6 games, drawn 1 and lost 3.

Or looking at it from a different angle, we'd won the two most previous games and drawn the one before that.

Indeed only I think when you are talking about a "good run" you need to be talking about more than 2 games.

Well you spoke of how our fortunes improved once we were forced into the change, but in actual fact our fortunes had already improved.

If you re-read my original post you will see I said we improved from January from the arrival of Bent.

There can't though be any dispute that our form in Houllier's absence was better than in his presence.

[Stu_The_Villan]

We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence.

The only reason we were in trouble is because GH was in hospital and G McA had to take over as caretaker manager

[Mantis]

2. We were forced into a change in manager due to Houllier's health and our fortunes improved in his absence. You may say that it wasn't linked to Houllier's absence but the highest league position Liverpool achieved during his tenure was when he was absent through his health issues.

That's not entirely true. We were already on a good run when Houllier had that heart scare.

We had won 2 of the previous 6 games, drawn 1 and lost 3.

Or looking at it from a different angle, we'd won the two most previous games and drawn the one before that.

Indeed only I think when you are talking about a "good run" you need to be talking about more than 2 games.

Well you spoke of how our fortunes improved once we were forced into the change, but in actual fact our fortunes had already improved.

If you re-read my original post you will see I said we improved from January from the arrival of Bent.

There can't though be any dispute that our form in Houllier's absence was better than in his presence.

If you'll read your own post you will see that you said "our fortunes improved in his absence".

While I agree that Bent's arrival changed things, you're wrong about our fortunes improved when Houllier had to step back. As I said, our fortunes had already improved.

[Ads]

Does it really matter what happened against Arsenal in that final? One game counts for very little when it comes to judging McLeish. The run they had towards that final was a joke, and they even needed penalties against Brentford or some shit team at home. All their games were at home too, which comes down to luck and fortune more than anything else. At least it was not McLeish's magical powers.

What you’re really saying is that the good thigns McLiesh has done in his career, i.e. somehow manage to win SHA a trophy, cannot be counted in an analysis of him.

Your argument is as ridiculous as saying you cannot count SHA’s relegation against him.

Ok,lets look at some FACTS here and keep opions aside.To be fair to the ginger headed one we will consider the last 5 seasons and the present one.

1-I dont remember finishing in the bottom half in the last 5 seasons

2-I dont remember losing so many games at home in the last 5 seasons

3-I dont remember scoring so few goals in the last 5 seasons

4-I dont remember getting so few points in the last 5 seasons

5-I dont remember playing such crap football in the last 5 seasons

6-i dont remember so many players playing out of position so much

7-The list goes on and on.

So, now compare the last 5 seasons to this one and ask yourself,

1- Do you like the direction we are going in ?

2- Have all those FACTS about the last 5 seasons changed this season ?

3- Who'se fault is it ? :?:

You’re confusing facts with opinions for a start. Facts are absolutes, such as winning a trophy, something we haven’t done in 16 years or getting relegated, something we haven’t done in 25.

As to the rest of your post, I don’t think it’s fair to compare the team under O’Neill with this one and blame McLiesh for the gap, as it was bloody good side, hence the good finishes.

A midfield of Young, Milner and Downing is top six stuff. The fact they’ve all gone and arguably not been replaced, certainly so in Milner’s case, is part of the reason why we’ve slipped into lower mid-table.

The sale of those players and Barry before and the replacement of them with inferior quality was going to make it hard for any manager.

Should we be doing better? Absolutely, but not to such an extent where we’re able to compete with the top six sides.

[TrentVilla]

With **** all money and an owner that then spent half the season in the nick.

Myth one - he had no money.

Myth two - he spent half the season in jail, he wasn't arrested until June.

Give the bloke a chance.... what he did or didn't do with the Blues has no bearing or what he will or will not do with Villa.

No it doesn't have a barring on what he will or won't do at Villa I've not said it will. What I've said it is has a barring on my expectation levels for the remaining games this season.

[TrentVilla]

If you'll read your own post you will see that you said "our fortunes improved in his absence".

And they did.

While I agree that Bent's arrival changed things, you're wrong about our fortunes improved when Houllier had to step back. As I said, our fortunes had already improved.

No I'm not.

[PieFacE]

The big question is this,

Do you think McDipstick is taking us in the right direction ?

Well that depends on what you think the right direction is surely?

For me, what Villa need to do right now is stay in the Premier League, lower the wage bill and almost start again, by laying down the foundations of the squad at a much cheaper cost to what it is at minute.

So in that sense, then yes I think McLeish will take us in the right direction. It really wouldnt shock me to see Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Petrov all gone in the summer. I also think Mcleish could replace those players with equal quality with lower wages.

It's what happens after the foundation is set that worry's me, if we do chuck money at it again, is AMC going to be the manager of the club still?

I think the most worrying thing of all is just not knowing what Randy Lerner is actually thinking of doing with the club.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of AMC or the football he plays, but from a business point of view I can see why AMC is the manager, he's almost here on an asset stripping exercise.

[Mantis]

If you'll read your own post you will see that you said "our fortunes improved in his absence".

And they did.

While I agree that Bent's arrival changed things, you're wrong about our fortunes improved when Houllier had to step back. As I said, our fortunes had already improved.

No I'm not.

As I've already explained, our fortunes had improved by the time Houllier had that heart scare. I'm afraid you're wrong on this particular point.

[markavfc40]

Under Houllier we played 28 games and took 33 points = 1.17 points a game, Under G Mac we played 5 games and took 8 points = 1.6 points a game and under K Mac we took 7 points in 5 games = 1.4 points a games. Pre and post Houllier last season we were better with out him.

Also the 5 games before Houllier was taken ill and G Mac took over we won 2 drew 1 and lost 2. The final 5 games under GMac we won 2 drew 2 and lost just once.