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The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread


Richard

Do you THINK McLeish will be gone by next season?  

370 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you THINK McLeish will be gone by next season?

    • Yes I think he will
      230
    • No I think he will be here
      140


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Does it really matter what happened against Arsenal in that final? One game counts for very little when it comes to judging McLeish. The run they had towards that final was a joke, and they even needed penalties against Brentford or some shit team at home. All their games were at home too, which comes down to luck and fortune more than anything else. At least it was not McLeish's magical powers.

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Does it really matter what happened against Arsenal in that final? One game counts for very little when it comes to judging McLeish. The run they had towards that final was a joke, and they even needed penalties against Brentford or some shit team at home. All their games were at home too, which comes down to luck and fortune more than anything else. At least it was not McLeish's magical powers.

What you’re really saying is that the good thigns McLiesh has done in his career, i.e. somehow manage to win SHA a trophy, cannot be counted in an analysis of him.

Your argument is as ridiculous as saying you cannot count SHA’s relegation against him.

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Well he's won a trophy in England which is something we havent done for 16 years

Graeme Souness and the Wally with the Brolly have also potted a league cup since we last won a trophy. I wouldn't want them managing the club either.

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To beat Arsenal and win that trophy, then get relegated, points to the manager not doing something right, dont ya think??? That should have pushed them on to stay in the league at least. Tipical McLeish mentallity and motivation.

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Does it really matter what happened against Arsenal in that final? One game counts for very little when it comes to judging McLeish. The run they had towards that final was a joke, and they even needed penalties against Brentford or some shit team at home. All their games were at home too, which comes down to luck and fortune more than anything else. At least it was not McLeish's magical powers.

What you’re really saying is that the good thigns McLiesh has done in his career, i.e. somehow manage to win SHA a trophy, cannot be counted in an analysis of him.

Your argument is as ridiculous as saying you cannot count SHA’s relegation against him.

Well it really does buddy, and the facts are pretty clear:

- Relegation is 38 games of showing what you are capable of. In other words, luck and unluck evens out.

- A cup stroll with home games to Brentford, MK Dons, Villa and West Ham and then Arsenal at Wembley is more or less just lucky draws. A cup is a cup, of course, but it does not say anything about McLeish as a manager. Not at all actually.

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Well he's won a trophy in England which is something we havent done for 16 years
And...?

But is finishing 6th three times as opposed to once really that much more of an achievement? Yeah it's good but I don't think it's anything amazing.

Again, I never actually said it was the same as doing it once. Stop putting words into my mouth. You do it virtually every time you post.

Well yes you have said its the same, everytime you said that 6th place isn't anything special because so many managers have achieved it or beaten it, including Dol. When you put forward that argument, which you have done often, it's clearly arguing that doing it once is the same. I don't have to put anything in your mouth, your poor inconsistent argument speaks volumes.

And yeah 3 6th place finishes aren't amazing, you don't win anything for it, but since the prem began not many clubs have been able to achieve that level of consistency.

And it's certainly a level of consistency we won't see for a long time in the future thanks to our owners managerial appointments and lack of financial control.

I've never actually said they were the same. Find me a quote where I've said that or stop with this "you said they were the same" thing.

Yes, consistency is good but once again, 6th with the resources he had wasn't anything spectacular. Didn't we also have the 6th highest wage bill?

To put the achievement in to some kind of perspective the last time we achieved 3 top 6 finishes on the spin pre 2007 - 2010 was in the early 1930's almost 80 years previously.

I therefore don't think it is anything to be sniffed at and you are also likely to be correct in stating it will be a very long time before we achieve that level of consistency again.

What does that prove? Of course we're not going to finish 6th three times in a row very often. That's a very precise combination. You keep bringing up this stat but I don't really think it means anything.
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Yes agree, but my concern is the next appointment won't be any better

The club needs a bit of stability

Wow, the first bit of sense you've come out with!

n?

Yeah it's a bit like waiting for Hayley's comet

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To put the achievement in to some kind of perspective the last time we achieved 3 top 6 finishes on the spin pre 2007 - 2010 was in the early 1930's almost 80 years previously.

I therefore don't think it is anything to be sniffed at and you are also likely to be correct in stating it will be a very long time before we achieve that level of consistency again.

What does that prove? Of course we're not going to finish 6th three times in a row very often. That's a very precise combination. You keep bringing up this stat but I don't really think it means anything.

Three consecutive 6th finishes is precise but Marks stat is 3 consecutive top 6 finishes. Which isnt really that precise.

It also shows we arent historically a top 6 side and perhaps our levels of expectation as Villa fans are a little high.

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To put the achievement in to some kind of perspective the last time we achieved 3 top 6 finishes on the spin pre 2007 - 2010 was in the early 1930's almost 80 years previously.

I therefore don't think it is anything to be sniffed at and you are also likely to be correct in stating it will be a very long time before we achieve that level of consistency again.

What does that prove? Of course we're not going to finish 6th three times in a row very often. That's a very precise combination. You keep bringing up this stat but I don't really think it means anything.

Three consecutive 6th finishes is precise but Marks stat is 3 consecutive top 6 finishes. Which isnt really that precise.

It also shows we arent historically a top 6 side and perhaps our levels of expectation as Villa fans are a little high.

Oh yeah, so it is. I still don't think it proves anything though, when you consider that we've finished above 6th numerous times throughout our history (even our recent history).
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It shows MON was consistently able to get us sixth, which is an achievement. Obviously we hoped he would have got us into the Champions League and it was frustrating he didn't quite, but three sixth place finishes is looking better and better as time passes.

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three sixth place finishes is looking better and better as time passes.

not considering the march collapses. those 6th place finishes will NEVER look good in my eyes because of that

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three sixth place finishes is looking better and better as time passes.

not considering the march collapses. those 6th place finishes will NEVER look good in my eyes because of that

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three sixth place finishes is looking better and better as time passes.

not considering the march collapses. those 6th place finishes will NEVER look good in my eyes because of that

Or that they cost about £200m

There are no medals for finishing 6th

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Does it really matter what happened against Arsenal in that final? One game counts for very little when it comes to judging McLeish. The run they had towards that final was a joke, and they even needed penalties against Brentford or some shit team at home. All their games were at home too, which comes down to luck and fortune more than anything else. At least it was not McLeish's magical powers.

What you’re really saying is that the good thigns McLiesh has done in his career, i.e. somehow manage to win SHA a trophy, cannot be counted in an analysis of him.

Your argument is as ridiculous as saying you cannot count SHA’s relegation against him.

Well it really does buddy, and the facts are pretty clear:

- Relegation is 38 games of showing what you are capable of. In other words, luck and unluck evens out.

- A cup stroll with home games to Brentford, MK Dons, Villa and West Ham and then Arsenal at Wembley is more or less just lucky draws. A cup is a cup, of course, but it does not say anything about McLeish as a manager. Not at all actually.

I do think that's a tad unfair - and I say that as someone who is no fan of McLeish.

Yes, he had a favourable draw. But we've had favourable draws in years past and still made a balls of it.

I can see why -on the surface- the board opted for McLeish and didn't let his current employers (as was) put them off.

Managing Rangers to various titles in the CL and a national side looks impressive. If you ignore the decline he overseen in the former despite their natural advantages up there and the shit managers Scotland have had for the past 25+ years.

Bagging any sort of trophy for a 3rd rate outfit like the B-lose looks like the stuff of miracles too -until you see their run to the final and the fortuitous nature of their winner.

A board with a wee bit of football knowledge should have been able to see this, of course. But we don't have one of those. A quick skim read of his honours on wiki, a nice letter from Fergie and a few complimentary words from Ginge himself anytime we turned over his B-lose rabble was enough for RL and co.

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I've never actually said they were the same. Find me a quote where I've said that or stop with this "you said they were the same" thing.

So when you argue 6th place isn't that impressive because it's been matched and beaten by previous managers what do you mean? Because if you are comparing consecutive finishes I'm not sure how you can claim previous managers have matched or beaten it.

:?

Can you explain how when in the past you've talked about how even DOL managed it shows you're not just comparing it happening once to consecutive times?

As for the stability argument, i don't think stability under Mcleish will end with anything but midtable mediocrity, attendances continuing to fall and average try hards wearing the shirt.

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I watched the final and no way did Arsenal deserve to lose.

You could say exactly the same about Bayern Munich in 1982. Or some would say ipswich in 1981

Yep, and if I recall correctly, SHA should have had a peno in first half and gone 2-0 up. They played well in the first half and were under the kosh in the second, playing on the break.

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On MON, Villa had finished 6th many times in the past and it was never considered a great achievement, but because we usually mounted a challenge for a champions league place until February it seems to be noted as a great achievement in hindsight. We failed under MON, our goal was champions league for 2/3 years. He was arguably given enough resources to get us there and his failure was complete when he walked out 5 days before our season started.

In some ways, I feel for McLeish, he must have thought he'd be able to get 2 good back to back wins with Bolton at home coming up, instead he'll likely be under more pressure again if we fail to get much out the next 3 games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. We'll probably have a new shitstorm of negativity amongst the fans going around again by the Liverpool game.

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I've never actually said they were the same. Find me a quote where I've said that or stop with this "you said they were the same" thing.

So when you argue 6th place isn't that impressive because it's been matched and beaten by previous managers what do you mean? Because if you are comparing consecutive finishes I'm not sure how you can claim previous managers have matched or beaten it.

:?

Can you explain how when in the past you've talked about how even DOL managed it shows you're not just comparing it happening once to consecutive times?

As for the stability argument, i don't think stability under Mcleish will end with anything but midtable mediocrity, attendances continuing to fall and average try hards wearing the shirt.

The fact that other managers matched or beat MON's best finish isn't the only reason why I don't think the three 6th place finishes were a great achievement. I also think that MON only did a decent job with the resources he had.

You're missing the point anyway. I don't think finishing 6th once is the same as finishing 6th three times in a row. I've never said that, despite your claims to the contrary. However, I don't think finishing 6th three times a row is as impressive as some people think. That's all.

I can see why -on the surface- the board opted for McLeish and didn't let his current employers (as was) put them off.
I can't. One would hope that his two relegations and terrible brand of football would be enough to put any board off, regardless of their football knowledge.
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In some ways, I feel for McLeish, he must have thought he'd be able to get 2 good back to back wins with Bolton at home coming up, instead he'll likely be under more pressure again if we fail to get much out the next 3 games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. We'll probably have a new shitstorm of negativity amongst the fans going around again by the Liverpool game.

It shouldn't matter when we play Bolton.

If McLeish was any use then the fact that our next 3 games are now against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool should be something to look forward to not be shit scared of!

If a new 'Shitstorm' of negativity amongst the fans occurs then it is entirely of his making.

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