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The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread


Richard

Do you THINK McLeish will be gone by next season?  

370 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you THINK McLeish will be gone by next season?

    • Yes I think he will
      230
    • No I think he will be here
      140


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I think if we can grind some points out of the next 3 very difficult games, Alex will start winning over the majority of our fans

Grinding points doesn’t seem to be the issue with McLeish; its winning games and playing attractive football. Even if McLeish wins a trophy (highly unlikely) I suspect he will never win over the fans; he’s not got a personality that people warm to, and the majority of football he aims to play is functional at the best. I think in a year from now, we will be pretty much in the same place, wondering the same questions.

I've only just caught up with (I imagine) a lot of football supporters by reading the book "Kicking and Screaming" - sub-titled "An Oral History of Football in England".

The snippet in the book that prompted me to write a response here was on the matter of the obligation in football to entertain. At least, I think there is such an obligation, and this snippet sums it up for me. The words were spoken by George Hardwick, talking about the England team of the late 1940s. I feel that Alex McLeish might draw some wisdom from this!

"I don't think there could ever have been a team in the history of football that entertained so much because that's what we set out to do: 'Now, all these people have paid all this money, let's show them, let's give 'em a show, let's do it.' If we scored one I'm screaming at them, 'Now two, two,two,come on, let's go, let's go.' When we got two I was screaming for three, and I was screaming for four and I was screaming for five, and the only time I got a bit upset with myself was when we were beating Holland 8-0 and we got a penalty, and hadn't the guts to score with it. I just knocked it at the keeper. I thought, 'Oh, no, no, no, we've got eight,' and I hadn't the heart to go for nine."

Football probably can't be any longer as it was back then, but McLeish could at least try some of this.

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You're missing the point anyway. I don't think finishing 6th once is the same as finishing 6th three times in a row. I've never said that, despite your claims to the contrary.

So why did you say

Getting 6th wasn't really anything new for Villa. In the Premier League era all but one of MON's predecessors either matched or beat his highest finish.

How can you come out with that statement and then try and tell me you don't consider a manager doing it once the same as MON doing it 3 times? I asked it before but you don't seem able to explain it.

He was clearly comparing highest finishes, and not overall managerial stints.

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He's here - lets with it and get behind the team. The majority aren't keen on the gaffer....quite frankly neither am I - think the guy is pretty affable but i think he's a shit manager. Sadly, no amount of procrastinating (even 618 pages worth) is going to change things. What are you going to do, post another 618 pages worth?? It aint going to make one blind bit of difference. I've seen some real shite managers in my time (Doctor Jo nearly took down a side that should have won the league the year before) and i dont remember much dissention to him....in fact, he's held in a certain amount of affection amongst the villa faithful. You dont have to give Mcleish your backing.... but you need to get behind the team and not be a bunch of miserable whining bar stewards
I've heard this a lot. "Here's here, might as well get behind the team". Since when does moaning about the manager on the internet mean not supporting the team?

I'm inferring more about wasting your breath (or fingers) complaining about it - it's counter productive in the end trust me....

....and say he goes, tomorrow... who do we get? Curbishley? McCarthy? Bruce? because you can forget about the likes of Moyes, Lambert etc

I just dont see where the thread is going - you'd be better served getting behind the badge

How is posting things on the internet counter-productive?

K Mac until the end of the season would be fine. Curbishley actually wouldn't be bad for where we are as a club right now.

Umm, I am behind the badge? Please can you explain how moaning about the manager on the internet equates to not supporting the team?

It's a pointless exercise....

as is, pathetic protests outside the Trinity Road

as is the ridiculous chanting at Wigan

as is booing substitutions when the lad that came on scored the winner

We cant change the manager - the chairman/owner wont change the manager - the manager wont leave - the fans wont drive out the manager.

The fans wont drive out the manager?

Lets see how lerner thinks about that when people stop turning up to games who is going to pay a premium to watch the drivel served up this season

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Even if McLeish starts winning a few, (which I doubt) we will never be an exciting team to watch under him. I also worry about the development of our youth, never being technical or creative players.

There is no future at our club for him. I would be willing to give the likes of Martinez a season or even 2, but McLeish, i think we have already seen his best, we have the players, always have, he just don't know how to use them, never will.

They seem to be developing just fine under him so far. Unlike Houllier, his hand hasn't been forced into playing the youngsters...and has done well with the ones who haven't performed (loaning out Delph and Delfouneso, although both are back due to unforseeable circumstances).

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He's here - lets with it and get behind the team. The majority aren't keen on the gaffer....quite frankly neither am I - think the guy is pretty affable but i think he's a shit manager. Sadly, no amount of procrastinating (even 618 pages worth) is going to change things. What are you going to do, post another 618 pages worth?? It aint going to make one blind bit of difference. I've seen some real shite managers in my time (Doctor Jo nearly took down a side that should have won the league the year before) and i dont remember much dissention to him....in fact, he's held in a certain amount of affection amongst the villa faithful. You dont have to give Mcleish your backing.... but you need to get behind the team and not be a bunch of miserable whining bar stewards
I've heard this a lot. "Here's here, might as well get behind the team". Since when does moaning about the manager on the internet mean not supporting the team?

I'm inferring more about wasting your breath (or fingers) complaining about it - it's counter productive in the end trust me....

....and say he goes, tomorrow... who do we get? Curbishley? McCarthy? Bruce? because you can forget about the likes of Moyes, Lambert etc

I just dont see where the thread is going - you'd be better served getting behind the badge

How is posting things on the internet counter-productive?

K Mac until the end of the season would be fine. Curbishley actually wouldn't be bad for where we are as a club right now.

Umm, I am behind the badge? Please can you explain how moaning about the manager on the internet equates to not supporting the team?

It's a pointless exercise....

as is, pathetic protests outside the Trinity Road

as is the ridiculous chanting at Wigan

as is booing substitutions when the lad that came on scored the winner

We cant change the manager - the chairman/owner wont change the manager - the manager wont leave - the fans wont drive out the manager.

Its probably about as pointless as writing a message in a thread that is 600 odd pages long telling people that what they are discussing is pointless! :winkold:

I think the dissenters are more likely to change the manager etc. than you are to change the dissenters.

I would, as you suggest, focus your efforts elsewhere if you don't want to contribute to the debate.

And as for booing the substitutions, just like McTool in his post match interviews, you have twisted events. I don't believe any Villa fan was booing for the three lads that came on - we have all been crying out for them to get more of a chance - but rather they were booing because McTool took off the wrong players: The Zog rather than a poorly performing Marc; Herd rather than a very tired Stan etc..

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He's here - lets with it and get behind the team. The majority aren't keen on the gaffer....quite frankly neither am I - think the guy is pretty affable but i think he's a shit manager. Sadly, no amount of procrastinating (even 618 pages worth) is going to change things. What are you going to do, post another 618 pages worth?? It aint going to make one blind bit of difference. I've seen some real shite managers in my time (Doctor Jo nearly took down a side that should have won the league the year before) and i dont remember much dissention to him....in fact, he's held in a certain amount of affection amongst the villa faithful. You dont have to give Mcleish your backing.... but you need to get behind the team and not be a bunch of miserable whining bar stewards
I've heard this a lot. "Here's here, might as well get behind the team". Since when does moaning about the manager on the internet mean not supporting the team?

I'm inferring more about wasting your breath (or fingers) complaining about it - it's counter productive in the end trust me....

....and say he goes, tomorrow... who do we get? Curbishley? McCarthy? Bruce? because you can forget about the likes of Moyes, Lambert etc

I just dont see where the thread is going - you'd be better served getting behind the badge

How is posting things on the internet counter-productive?

K Mac until the end of the season would be fine. Curbishley actually wouldn't be bad for where we are as a club right now.

Umm, I am behind the badge? Please can you explain how moaning about the manager on the internet equates to not supporting the team?

It's a pointless exercise....

as is, pathetic protests outside the Trinity Road

as is the ridiculous chanting at Wigan

as is booing substitutions when the lad that came on scored the winner

We cant change the manager - the chairman/owner wont change the manager - the manager wont leave - the fans wont drive out the manager.

Its probably about as pointless as writing a message in a thread that is 600 odd pages long telling people that what they are discussing is pointless! :winkold:

I think the dissenters are more likely to change the manager etc. than you are to change the dissenters.

I would, as you suggest, focus your efforts elsewhere if you don't want to contribute to the debate.

And as for booing the substitutions, just like McLeish in his post match interviews, you have twisted events. I don't believe any Villa fan was booing for the three lads that came on - we have all been crying out for them to get more of a chance - but rather they were booing because McLeish took off the wrong players: The Zog rather than a poorly performing Marc; Herd rather than a very tired Stan etc..

I totally agree. when he makes his changes i have seen him take of Ireland, zoggy when people like allbrighton have been dreadful. its baffling how he decides which players need to come off its like he is watching another game. its the same with his press conferences.he seems to be in denial about what is happening on the pitch

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Unless Petrov picks up an injury there's not too many managers who would consistently sub their captain and until Petrov leaves our club then we will continue to be weak in midfield especially in the latter part of our games.

I always felt that Man U wouldn't win the league until they got rid of Robson as the team was built around him. I don't believe we're ever going to win the league again unless Randy sells to a very rich investor but we would improve with a better more energetic midfielder instead of Petrov and i hope we get rid in the summer?

It will be very interesting to see if AM does this?

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I think he's hoping to.. It appears Holman is an Ireland replacement.. Herd may very well be a Petrov replacement though we do also have Makoun who could come back and do a shift. If we keep Ireland then Holman can also play right or left wing so we could put N'Zogbia in his more favoured right wing position.. I think this transfer window is about replacing dead wood but also about buying players that will allow the ones we have to play in their correct positions.

I believe the safe bets to be going in the summer are; Petrov, Delph, Heskey, Dunne, Warnock.

Those that have a maybe are; Ireland, Bent, Collins, Makoun.

Those I don't think will go (but probably should to better their careers); Agbonlahor, Delfouneso.

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The three consecutive top 6 finishes has got to be the most overrated "achievement" in Villa history.

couldnt agree more,

And me, but in comparison to the mood of late it would prob almost feel like winning a cup.

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Does it really matter what happened against Arsenal in that final? One game counts for very little when it comes to judging McLeish. The run they had towards that final was a joke, and they even needed penalties against Brentford or some shit team at home. All their games were at home too, which comes down to luck and fortune more than anything else. At least it was not McLeish's magical powers.

What you’re really saying is that the good thigns McLiesh has done in his career, i.e. somehow manage to win SHA a trophy, cannot be counted in an analysis of him.

Your argument is as ridiculous as saying you cannot count SHA’s relegation against him.

Ok,lets look at some FACTS here and keep opions aside.To be fair to the ginger headed one we will consider the last 5 seasons and the present one.

1-I dont remember finishing in the bottom half in the last 5 seasons

2-I dont remember losing so many games at home in the last 5 seasons

3-I dont remember scoring so few goals in the last 5 seasons

4-I dont remember getting so few points in the last 5 seasons

5-I dont remember playing such crap football in the last 5 seasons

6-i dont remember so many players playing out of position so much

7-The list goes on and on.

So, now compare the last 5 seasons to this one and ask yourself,

1- Do you like the direction we are going in ?

2- Have all those FACTS about the last 5 seasons changed this season ?

3- Who'se fault is it ? :?:

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Let's see if you still feel that way after the next four years
Unless in the next four years certain parts of history will be undone I don't see how people's opinions are going to change on that matter?
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1-I dont remember finishing in the bottom half in the last 5 seasons

2-I dont remember losing so many games at home in the last 5 seasons

3-I dont remember scoring so few goals in the last 5 seasons

4-I dont remember getting so few points in the last 5 seasons

5-I dont remember playing such crap football in the last 5 seasons

Just gotta ask...where were you last season?

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You're missing the point anyway. I don't think finishing 6th once is the same as finishing 6th three times in a row. I've never said that, despite your claims to the contrary.

So why did you say

Getting 6th wasn't really anything new for Villa. In the Premier League era all but one of MON's predecessors either matched or beat his highest finish.

How can you come out with that statement and then try and tell me you don't consider a manager doing it once the same as MON doing it 3 times? I asked it before but you don't seem able to explain it.

He was clearly comparing highest finishes, and not overall managerial stints.

Yes he clearly was and like I said its a ridiculous thing to do.

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What exactly was ridiculous? All I was doing was using it to compliment my point that finishing 6th three times in a row was not some kind of massive achievement.

Look, I know some get a bit defensive when it comes to MON but I didn't slag him off or anything. All I said was that in my opinion the three 6th place finishes were not overly amazing.

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Look, I know some get a bit defensive when it comes to MON but I didn't slag him off or anything. All I said was that in my opinion the three 6th place finishes were not overly amazing.

Agreed. Nothing amazing about it at all. It was just alright. Average. Sixth highest wage bill, finished sixth. To be expected, surely?

Had he finished 5th, 4th, then that would have been better then average for me. But he couldn't.

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1-I dont remember finishing in the bottom half in the last 5 seasons

2-I dont remember losing so many games at home in the last 5 seasons

3-I dont remember scoring so few goals in the last 5 seasons

4-I dont remember getting so few points in the last 5 seasons

5-I dont remember playing such crap football in the last 5 seasons

Just gotta ask...where were you last season?

Same as I was the season before and the season before that etc etc.

I remember under MON we qualified for the Europa league but were beaten both times by that Austrian team.I remember getting beat by Man U in the League Cup,I even remember beating Norwich in the league cup,

but what I dont remember is bieng so low down on the league table :oops:

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Last season we were flirting with relegation up until 2 games before the season finished. Which is why i find it strange that people are already assuming we will finish bottom half. Still alot to play for and were only 6 points off Liverpool.

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