The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[stanthemanisgod]

I personally will never criticise a manager for not picking a certain player.

Yes there are always players some of us would like to see more of, but the manager and the coaching staff see these guys everyday on the training pitch (or however often they train) untill I pack in my job a watch the training sessions full time I'll never pass judgement on what a player has or hasn't done to get selected or keep his place in the team if selected.

Albrighton on his day is a good player, no world beater as many of us have painted him to be but if he's not showing enough in training to get a starting place then he only has himself to blame. Same with Ireland, Delph, Clark and anybody else we may or may not want to see play more often.

[AshVilla]

McLeish spunked 10 mill on Nzogbia though so is under pressure for him to come good thus the increased game time he has dropped him this season as well its up to albrighton to show he's good enough and take his chance

Gabby is first name on the teamsheet as far as im concerned

[Woodytom]

Last time I looked we were 8th and doing ok. Pretty much where I expect us to be.

And I remember my expectancies being replied to with - I wish I shared your confidence etc.

In fact baring in mind this seasons predictions of many on Villa Talk, the mans a fecking genius

[omariqy]

On the face of it 8th is decent bordering on good. However, when you look at the games we have had and how we have played then you start to worry. I think we will get a truer picture of Big Eck's capabilities come the new year when we have played the big boys.

[Zatman]

McLeish spunked 10 mill on Nzogbia though so is under pressure for him to come good

Dalglish spunked 20 million each on Downing and Henderson and dont see their fans crtiicizing him and he only 5 points ahead of us

[Shillzz]

Agree Woody.

It's a 2 tier Premiership this year (as it was last year) and we're currently top of tier 2.

You don't get into tier one by selling your best players over the summer, so to expect any more from McLeish is incredibly unrealistic.

[briny_ear]

McLeish is the WORST manager we have had since the birth of the Premiership.

It's perhaps a bit early to pronounce on his managerial after only 11 league games but I reckon I can provide 2 names who were worse than him: Graham Taylor MkII and Gerard Houllier. In addition, time alone will tell if O'Leary was better or worse than McLeish.

it may be early but lets look at his win % in context from a article late into last season (maybe 2 or 3 games before the end of the season i think!)

http://twitpic.com/55e1tk

hes won 4 in 13. So thats 30.8%

So in Comparison he's only "bettered" by Billy McNeill and is by no doubt the worse Prem manager we've had.

(p.s. just worked out Hollier reign had 14 wins in 39 so 35% making him the 3rd worse)

Ha ha, I must have missed the moment when we started judging the success of managers by their win percentage but, even if I accept that method, your stats are distinctly dodgy.

First, Houllier didn't manage us for 39 games. He only managed 34 before his ticker gave out and he won 12 drew 9 lost 13 - NB only 8 of those wins were league games.

Also, if you judge a manager to be the "worst we've had" on his first 13 games, your stats need to compare the first 13 games of all the managers you are judging him by. Otherwise the claim is misleading if not meaningless.

And, spookily...

Houllier's first 13 games rendered him 4 wins (but only thanks to 2 cup wins).

[makouns_grin]

1. His love of Heskey and the fact he thinks he's a playmaker

2. His lack of faith in Albrighton - we have nobody who can cross a ball in our starting eleven and he would address this.

Where has McLeish said that he thinks Heskey is a playmaker?

When Albrighton has come on this season he has been shit, so why should he be given anymore opportunity than anyone else?

If he had shown any instances of being decent then i'm sure he would be used more.

Heskey has been playing in the exact same position as Van der Vaart, Silva and Suarez...in the other words "in the hole"....it is a position made for creative skillfull players with an eye for a pass.....

Heskey isnt this .....so what the **** is he doing there? IMO if he isnt the main target man he has no use in this team....

NZogbia has been given plenty of chance to shine and again IMO is a shit crosser of the ball.....

Albrighton has been given very little opportunities and would improve our crossing in my eyes

So just because Heskey is playing in a similar position, means his job is the same?

Err ok.

I assume Heskey marks the same people from set pieces as Van der Vaart, Silva and Suarez do as well?

[Woodytom]

On the face of it 8th is decent bordering on good. However, when you look at the games we have had and how we have played then you start to worry. I think we will get a truer picture of Big Eck's capabilities come the new year when we have played the big boys.

It is a fair comment Omariqy and one thats used on here regular.

However, theres a few ways of looking at that. Heres my view.

We have had a nice run of fixtures and we are comfortably (which is the important word for me) 8th. We have had some tough fixtures in that also - City (a), Sunderland, Everton, Fulham (a) and two derby's are NOT easy games. We are also atm, playing (90% of the time) - abysmally with many players yet to hit any form.

So, for the argument that tougher games lie ahead - Id agree, but I am by no means thinking points arent there to be won, for the following reasons:

- Football isn't won on paper

- We havent started playing well yet and were still picking up points

- All of the top teams bar City look very beatable or certainly more beatable than previous seasons. The team I actually fear most after City is Spurs. Look a very very good team..

- We have taken points off big teams time and time again when we think we won't.

- All teams seem to be taken points off each other.

I think your right, I think we will learn a lot about Mcliesh come New Year. I think we will know whether he is a steady Eddy comfortable top ten manager for us or the man who can actually take us forward.

We will lose games against the best sides no doubt. We always do - But, that doesnt relegate you though. Losing games against poor teams is what relegates you - so far thats not happening by any means.

People used Stoke as an example of a team in a better position than us because theyve played stronger teams so far - Yeah theyve just been battered by Bolton.

Lets just take each game as it comes.

[quizme]

to Woody! Great post!

[stanthemanisgod]

Interesting to see the 'the harder games are yet to come' argument, and whilst they certainly are harder games to come it's difficult to look at the fixture list and pick out easy or hard games.

Anybody else hear the interview with Joe Hart after the City - QPR game? According to the City players it was the first time they've felt like they've been in a game of football all season, and they've played a number of the harder teams, including Utd.

So by that should we now assume QPR away is one of the harder fixtures of the season?

It'll all even out, and as Bolton proved at the weekend even the bottom clubs are capable of big results.

[houllierout]

McLeish is the WORST manager we have had since the birth of the Premiership.

It's perhaps a bit early to pronounce on his managerial after only 11 league games but I reckon I can provide 2 names who were worse than him: Graham Taylor MkII and Gerard Houllier. In addition, time alone will tell if O'Leary was better or worse than McLeish.

it may be early but lets look at his win % in context from a article late into last season (maybe 2 or 3 games before the end of the season i think!)

http://twitpic.com/55e1tk

hes won 4 in 13. So thats 30.8%

So in Comparison he's only "bettered" by Billy McNeill and is by no doubt the worse Prem manager we've had.

(p.s. just worked out Hollier reign had 14 wins in 39 so 35% making him the 3rd worse)

Ha ha, I must have missed the moment when we started judging the success of managers by their win percentage but, even if I accept that method, your stats are distinctly dodgy.

First, Houllier didn't manage us for 39 games. He only managed 34 before his ticker gave out and he won 12 drew 9 lost 13 - NB only 8 of those wins were league games.

Also, if you judge a manager to be the "worst we've had" on his first 13 games, your stats need to compare the first 13 games of all the managers you are judging him by. Otherwise the claim is misleading if not meaningless.

And, spookily...

Houllier's first 13 games rendered him 4 wins (but only thanks to 2 cup wins).

Ok. if we count that then he got 35% whoop de doo..

Im saying we can only judge but what theyve done... and hes done jack

we should judge by wins as they are what count in football....

[Skruff]

On the face of it 8th is decent bordering on good. However, when you look at the games we have had and how we have played then you start to worry. I think we will get a truer picture of Big Eck's capabilities come the new year when we have played the big boys.

It is a fair comment Omariqy and one thats used on here regular.

However, theres a few ways of looking at that. Heres my view.

We have had a nice run of fixtures and we are comfortably (which is the important word for me) 8th. We have had some tough fixtures in that also - City (a), Sunderland, Everton, Fulham (a) and two derby's are NOT easy games. We are also atm, playing (90% of the time) - abysmally with many players yet to hit any form.

So, for the argument that tougher games lie ahead - Id agree, but I am by no means thinking points arent there to be won, for the following reasons:

- Football isn't won on paper

- We havent started playing well yet and were still picking up points

- All of the top teams bar City look very beatable or certainly more beatable than previous seasons. The team I actually fear most after City is Spurs. Look a very very good team..

- We have taken points off big teams time and time again when we think we won't.

- All teams seem to be taken points off each other.

I think your right, I think we will learn a lot about Mcliesh come New Year. I think we will know whether he is a steady Eddy comfortable top ten manager for us or the man who can actually take us forward.

We will lose games against the best sides no doubt. We always do - But, that doesnt relegate you though. Losing games against poor teams is what relegates you - so far thats not happening by any means.

People used Stoke as an example of a team in a better position than us because theyve played stronger teams so far - Yeah theyve just been battered by Bolton.

Lets just take each game as it comes.

Thank you, great post!

[Number-7]

I`ve heard bottom 3 by Jan due to our up coming fixtures,but when you check the bottom 3`s fixtures,they`re no easier than ours.I`d be far more worried if we only had 8 points in the bag.We`re not doing too bad so far.Nothing to shout home about but not suicidal either.

[Skruff]

McLeish is the WORST manager we have had since the birth of the Premiership.

It's perhaps a bit early to pronounce on his managerial after only 11 league games but I reckon I can provide 2 names who were worse than him: Graham Taylor MkII and Gerard Houllier. In addition, time alone will tell if O'Leary was better or worse than McLeish.

it may be early but lets look at his win % in context from a article late into last season (maybe 2 or 3 games before the end of the season i think!)

http://twitpic.com/55e1tk

hes won 4 in 13. So thats 30.8%

So in Comparison he's only "bettered" by Billy McNeill and is by no doubt the worse Prem manager we've had.

(p.s. just worked out Hollier reign had 14 wins in 39 so 35% making him the 3rd worse)

Ha ha, I must have missed the moment when we started judging the success of managers by their win percentage but, even if I accept that method, your stats are distinctly dodgy.

First, Houllier didn't manage us for 39 games. He only managed 34 before his ticker gave out and he won 12 drew 9 lost 13 - NB only 8 of those wins were league games.

Also, if you judge a manager to be the "worst we've had" on his first 13 games, your stats need to compare the first 13 games of all the managers you are judging him by. Otherwise the claim is misleading if not meaningless.

And, spookily...

Houllier's first 13 games rendered him 4 wins (but only thanks to 2 cup wins).

Ok. if we count that then he got 35% whoop de doo..

Im saying we can only judge but what theyve done... and hes done jack

we should judge by wins as they are what count in football....

Can't smell defeat when it's shitting down your throath? :birthday:

[houllierout]

ive got to be honest. im geeky enough to knock up a quick Excel Sheet about Prem Manager stats. I will try and update this after every game... (Memory permitting)

So as we know: Mcleish has the worse win Ratio of the lot....

Mcleish 13 4 31%

Houllier (Full Term - He did pick McAllister!) 39 14 36%

Houllier (not counting illness) 34 12 35%

O'Neill 190 80 42%

O'Leary 131 47 36%

Taylor 60 19 32%

Gregory 190 82 43%

Little 164 68 41%

Atkinson 178 77 43%

BUT points per game ratio all his boring Draws have helped him!

Mcleish 1.38

Houllier (Full Term - He did pick McAllister!) 1.36

Houllier (not counting illness) 1.32

O'Neill 1.58

O'Leary 1.34

Taylor 1.18

Gregory 1.57

Little 1.52

Atkinson 1.55

So there we have it.... he's going to draw us to death!

Geeky Doc Here

[CBGB]

OMG you just "proved" MON is the best or third best manager we've had in the Prem. THat wouldn't do.

[NeilS]

MON falls alongside Gregory as a steady eddie who had us up there or thereabouts without thrilling anyone or winning anything along the way. Little and Atkinson who have similar overall records had us playing some cracking football at their peaks, unfortunately they were unable to build on those succeses for whatever reason and we fell away badly both times. I feel that we were coming from a long way back when MON joined as Doug had cut costs and we were functioning on bare minimum.

MON did did fairly well to lift us out of the doldrums when he first joined, but he did infuriate when he was buying the likes of Harewood and Knight in his first summer window, when I as a fan was hoping he would be attracting better players to Villa Park. He also dithered on purchasing players for certain positions. Right back is one position that springs to mind springs to mind. I feel that had he tackled those positions faster, then maybe we could have had the right balance to the team, and achieved the goals set out before the likes of Liverpool and Man City set about unsettling our better players.

It is way too early to come to a conclusive judgement on McLeish. He is a likeable chap, but his football is far from likable at times. We have tended to lack any creative flair in most games meaing we are one of the lowest rated teams in terms of chances created. He is partly excused, because the loss of Young and Downing was massive to us. Albrighton was always going to find it difficult this season, so we have been reliant on N'Zogbia and Bannan to provide some spark from midfield.

I would have liked more points on the board at this point in the season as we have a tough run of fixtures coming up soon. When we have made it to January, we will see a truer picture of how McLeish has done this season. We will be halfway through the season, and then we can see if the teams future looks bright or not.

[GarethRDR]

he did infuriate when he was buying the likes of Harewood and Knight in his first summer window

Knight's tenure is persistently and erroneously viewed with malign when he was, in truth, pretty solid for us. We've had worse defenders.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

O'Neill was a good manager, as Risso can probably back up, the amounts of times we had debates, I did state we'd miss him once he's gone. Although manager is not the only reason we've fell down (Owner)

McLeish is just meh, when he come, I thought we'd finish mid-table ish, play average football and scrape through the season with around 46-50 points. Seen nothing to change my mind, really hope someone else is given the chance in charge but can't see him being sacked to be honest.