The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[steaknchips]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/08/newcastle-united-french-scouting-policy

[steaknchips]

What was the league record signing when Viera was bought for £3.5m? £12m? £15m?

What wages did he offer him when he signed? How does that compare to other clubs? To our wage structure now let alone back then?

Wenger is good, I dont dispute that but he's still paid decent money for players either in fees or wages, money that Villa doesn't have right now.

SO to use Wenger as the basis for the argument that Deschamps could turn Villa into a dominant team in Europe doesn't wash with me.

The production line in France for quality players is the best on globe. Deschamps would have the edge on knowing and ability to sign such players...Just like the position Wenger was in when he 1st landed on our shores.. McLeish v Deschamps = Deschamps can bring alot more to the table. 4m for Hutton? Or 4m for a top 4 quality player? Which would you prefer?

[wiggyrichard]

I still dont see what he has done wrong? I still think he has made a deceant start, Bent puts away 4 of the chances he has missed and everyone would be over the moon.

[PIW]

Not taking anything away from Wenger (well I am) but he was just in the right place at the right time. He came into Arsenal when they had a solid back 5, bergkamp, ian Wright, and Paul merson. he was lucky and so were Arsenal (and France) that there were a group of great French players waiting to be put into a team - Henry, Viera, Petit, Pires, Anelka, Wiltord - which went on to form the back bone of the brilliant French team of 98 onwards. he added a few more and got amazing money from Anelka and Overmars.

however, when the back 5 went that's when his troubles began. the French starts have now all gone and the legacy is teh Emirates, a period of unparralleled success for them, and money. Wenger has still done some good work in the years that followed that early success and has bought some good some bad. As do all managers. but it is cklear that defensively he has not bought particulalry well. he has never bought a decent kepper in and Lehamnn was only okay. Afetr the old guard left then apart from the odd decent defender - who all left of theior own volition - Wenger has never really been able to reproduce the solidity at teh back that he inherited in the mid 90s.

So, whilst he clearly ahs done a lot of good at Arsenal i think his luck has run out. he must still have good contacts and he still brings the odd good player over from france/Europe. But it was easier to get a good 16 year-old from barcelona promising first-team football when Arsenal; were at teh top. But if they were to chase a 16 year-old fabregas now and faced competition from Chelsea/Man City/Man U would he be as lucky? i doubt it.

Also, those frnch players were signing for a French manager making their decision easier. The failed Venglos experiment aside Wenger was seen as ground breaking as wa sthe appointment of a foreign manager. nowadays they're ten a penny in the English game. Has Wenger got better contacts than Mancini? Villas-Boas has got Mourinho's ear and i'd bet contacts, Fergie can get who he wants up to a point. The games changing and Wenger no longer has the clout he was lucky enough to have in one isoalted period in the 90s.

fair play to him he used what he had and did brilliantly. but that's gone now. And I think Arsenal will also falter in the next few seasons.

[stanthemanisgod]

McLeish v Deschamps = Deschamps can bring alot more to the table. 4m for Hutton? Or 4m for a top 4 quality player? Which would you prefer?

If this was as far as your argument went I'd be a lot closer to your viewpoint than I am now. I still disagree that Deschamps would continually go out with £4m of Aston Villa's money and get top 4 quality players. If it was that easy the top 4 would all be scrambling after Deschamps to go and buy a top 4 capable starting 11 and bring them change from £45m!

If the argument is would I prefer Deschamps to McLeish then yes I probably would.

But do I think appointing Deschamps will be enough to make Villa a dominant force in Europe? No I dont, I cant see him even getting us into the CL without a serious amount of money to spend, money which isn't available.

But first and foremost I cant even see him agreeing to manage us.

[ryanvilla_1994]

What was the league record signing when Viera was bought for £3.5m? £12m? £15m?

What wages did he offer him when he signed? How does that compare to other clubs? To our wage structure now let alone back then?

Wenger is good, I dont dispute that but he's still paid decent money for players either in fees or wages, money that Villa doesn't have right now.

SO to use Wenger as the basis for the argument that Deschamps could turn Villa into a dominant team in Europe doesn't wash with me.

The production line in France for quality players is the best on globe. Deschamps would have the edge on knowing and ability to sign such players...Just like the position Wenger was in when he 1st landed on our shores.. McLeish v Deschamps = Deschamps can bring alot more to the table. 4m for Hutton? Or 4m for a top 4 quality player? Which would you prefer?

When the great Houllier spent 4 million on a player did he turn out to be top 4 quality? What makes you think Deschamps could do it?

[steaknchips]

Also, those frnch players were signing for a French manager making their decision easier. The failed Venglos experiment aside Wenger was seen as ground breaking as was the appointment of a foreign manager. nowadays they're ten a penny in the English game. Has Wenger got better contacts than Mancini? Villas-Boas has got Mourinho's ear and i'd bet contacts, Fergie can get who he wants up to a point. The games changing and Wenger no longer has the clout he was lucky enough to have in one isoalted period in the 90s.

fair play to him he used what he had and did brilliantly. but that's gone now. And I think Arsenal will also falter in the next few seasons.

This is what ive been saying, although the good, young, up to date foreign managers in the Prem being 10 a penny is way off the mark, as all the foreign managers in the Prem are the ones at the top end of the table. Even Martinez has spent all his modern day life in the UK, so he would hardly be on top of the game in continental Europe. Where competition in training young players is taken extremely serious and very competitive. Arsene took advantage of his knowledge in the day, he wouldnt have that up date knowledge now, having spending all his time on the Arsenal training ground. Yes he has scouts but he isnt seeing/watching/analizing it 1st hand like he used to, he cant and isnt watching the ins and outs of everyday football life on the continent like he once did. Give him 3-4 seasons managing Lille or Lyon and then he would come back into the Premiership and again take it by storm...Because those 3-4 seasons at Lille etc would open eyes to another great bunch of emerging players that he could mould into a team, these things he cant see with as great detail whilst in the Premiership.

[stanthemanisgod]

So now it's nothing to do with the manager but about the amount of time he spends in France?

If MoN was now residing in France doing nothing but watching youth team games, you'd have him back in a flash would you?

And I'm curious why it has to be France, cant remember them performing like a worldclass national side at the last world cup. Cant see them outperforming Spain or Germany at the next Euro. I mean why didn't the French just put any 11 of the world class young players out of the thousands on the production line on the pitch and win the World Cup at an canter?

[Zatman]

McLeish v Deschamps = Deschamps can bring alot more to the table. 4m for Hutton? Or 4m for a top 4 quality player? Which would you prefer?

no he wouldnt. HE spent large money on Gignac who couldnt score in a brothel. Also spent nearly 20 million on Lucho and doesnt play him.

As for finding quality full backs he has recently signed Djimi Traora

[steaknchips]

What was the league record signing when Viera was bought for £3.5m? £12m? £15m?

What wages did he offer him when he signed? How does that compare to other clubs? To our wage structure now let alone back then?

Wenger is good, I dont dispute that but he's still paid decent money for players either in fees or wages, money that Villa doesn't have right now.

SO to use Wenger as the basis for the argument that Deschamps could turn Villa into a dominant team in Europe doesn't wash with me.

The production line in France for quality players is the best on globe. Deschamps would have the edge on knowing and ability to sign such players...Just like the position Wenger was in when he 1st landed on our shores.. McLeish v Deschamps = Deschamps can bring alot more to the table. 4m for Hutton? Or 4m for a top 4 quality player? Which would you prefer?

When the great Houllier spent 4 million on a player did he turn out to be top 4 quality? What makes you think Deschamps could do it?

Houllier only had 1 Jan window..He had no Summer of which to mould a set of players..But even in his 1 Jan Window his signings shown more quality than all MON's and McLeish's put together. Pires for instance was a world class technical player, he wasnt bought in to play 100% of games week in week out, he was bought in to help coach players like Bannan and co' It was so the training ground had better pedigree amongst our young emerging players to learn from. K'Mac, Grant and McLeish can only offer so much to young players, Pires was the the spice and the missing part from the young player's games. It wasnt hard to see the reasoning behind the appointments..Great clubs have great personnel in the background.

Makoun is a top 4 quality player and again if you look at our play, he was something that was missing from our game.= Moving the ball quickly without giving it away. He also signed Bent, another top 4 quality player..Reports have Cabaye coming out to press saying he was going to join us had Houllier stayed....Guess what, another top 4 quality player..Can you imagine the slick passing from Makoun and the skills of Cabaye in the same team?(both costing less that a combined 10m) And this is with Bent up top and all our kids being taught and growing up on the training ground alongside Pires and co'?

You just do get it do you?

[wiggyrichard]

McLeish v Deschamps = Deschamps can bring alot more to the table. 4m for Hutton? Or 4m for a top 4 quality player? Which would you prefer?

no he wouldnt. HE spent large money on Gignac who couldnt score in a brothel. Also spent nearly 20 million on Lucho and doesnt play him.

As for finding quality full backs he has recently signed Djimi Traora

No further questions, your honor.

[stanthemanisgod]

great bunch of emerging players that he could mould into a team, these things he cant see with as great detail whilst in the Premiership.

Here I think we will always disagree. whislt I accept that he could find enough talent at a young enough age to nuture into a strong team he will never be afforded the luxury of enough time to do so.

Arsenal are in real danger of losing their CL placve this year, they lose that status and the income it generates and the wheels will very quickly fall off the wagon.

That's why he signed players like Arteta this summer not some awesome 12 year for a packet of chocolate buttons.

Deschamps might find a few good players if he ever came to the Villa but imo he would not be able to enough, quickly enough to keep those players here in order to build a team around. As soon as they begin to look decent in a team finishing 6th the likes of City and Utd will snap them up, as we have seen over the past few seasons.

Wenger could do this before because he was able to adapt a team with a solid base quickly, when there was an opportunity to be exploited. What opportunity is there for Villa?

[stanthemanisgod]

Pires for instance was a world class technical player, he wasnt bought in to play 100% of games week in week out, he was bought in to help coach players like Bannan and co' It was so the training ground had better peidgree amongst our young emerging players to learn from.

THen why was he signed on a playing contract and not a much better value for money coaching contract?

Makoun is a top 4 quality player and again if you look at our play something that was missing from our game.= Moving the ball quickly without giving it away. He also signed Bent, another top 4 quality players..Reports have Cabaye coming out to press saying he was going to join us had Houllier stayed....Guess what, another top 4 quality player.

Makoun wouldn't make the bench for any of the top four clubs in this league, it's the reason he signed for us for around £5m and not Utd for double that. He might play the right kind of football but he's simply not up to the task, there must be a reason why he's struggling for game time at Olympiakos.

Cabaye does look decent but it's still far too early to say if he'll ever have the consistency to play for a top 4 club on a regular basis. And please where was it ever stated by anybody at the club that Cabaye was ever going to join us?

We do get how scouting works and how it can find players that would represent better value for money but come on this crusade to prove that Deschamps could turn us into European Champions based purely on his knowledge of the French game is making you look like a clown.

[steaknchips]

great bunch of emerging players that he could mould into a team, these things he cant see with as great detail whilst in the Premiership.

Here I think we will always disagree. whislt I accept that he could find enough talent at a young enough age to nuture into a strong team he will never be afforded the luxury of enough time to do so.

Arsenal are in real danger of losing their CL placve this year, they lose that status and the income it generates and the wheels will very quickly fall off the wagon.

That's why he signed players like Arteta this summer not some awesome 12 year for a packet of chocolate buttons.

Deschamps might find a few good players if he ever came to the Villa but imo he would not be able to enough, quickly enough to keep those players here in order to build a team around. As soon as they begin to look decent in a team finishing 6th the likes of City and Utd will snap them up, as we have seen over the past few seasons.

Wenger could do this before because he was able to adapt a team with a solid base quickly, when there was an opportunity to be exploited. What opportunity is there for Villa?

Every manager pretty much brings personnel with them when they join a new club, whether than be playing or coaching side, it nearly always happens. McLeish knew Hutton from Rangers/Scotland so bought him to our club...Hutton is McLeish's little baby and set of knowledge if you like.He bought Grant from Blues, his little right hand (clueless) lttle friend if you like....Its all pants on what we could have.

Deschamps would bring the "missing parts" into our team/squad to join up the dots...Alot like Wenger brought the "missing parts" to help Arsenal become a great force in English football. What is missing from Villa's game Deschamps will find.. Hutton wasnt a missing part from Villa's game..Makoun was, Cabaye was, Bent was, Pires was...Hutton are 2 a penny in UK footballmand we didnt need such a player.

[stanthemanisgod]

Pires was missing from our game even when he was on the pitch.

The major diffrence between Arsenal when Wenger took over and Villa now is there are more 'missing parts' than dots at Villa.

Also Wenger was rewarded with success, the CL was open to him and reinforced that behaviour and opened the club up to talent that wouldn't have previously been available.

Even if Deschamps did fill the gaps and join the dots we would still be in the positon where at least 5 clubs in the league are ahead of us. Without the extra income the money dries up, without the wage budget the 'missing parts' become harder to recruit. Without trophies the existing 'missing parts' begin to look elsewhere.

[Zatman]

The production line in France for quality players is the best on globe. Deschamps would have the edge on knowing and ability to sign such players..

Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Netherlands and Uruguay are all miles ahead of France in terms of production. Its a reason this great sporting nation failed to get out of groups in last 2 major tournaments

[wiggyrichard]

The amount of shite being spouted on here is unbelievable...

[steaknchips]

Pires was missing from our game even when he was on the pitch.

The major diffrence between Arsenal when Wenger took over and Villa now is there are more 'missing parts' than dots at Villa.

Also Wenger was rewarded with success, the CL was open to him and reinforced that behaviour and opened the club up to talent that wouldn't have previously been available.

Even if Deschamps did fill the gaps and join the dots we would still be in the positon where at least 5 clubs in the league are ahead of us. Without the extra income the money dries up, without the wage budget the 'missing parts' become harder to recruit. Without trophies the existing 'missing parts' begin to look elsewhere.

And Villa too would be rewarded with success..Its not hard to get into the top 6 because beyond that, our game is very average. Newcastle are proving this season, that under a different approach in the trans market they can easily climb amongst the top teams. l

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/08/newcastle-united-french-scouting-policy

If you look at pretty all the teams below top 6, they are all doing the same thing. Stoke, Sunderland, Bolton, etc Only Newcastle recently have made a few additions from doing some research and hard scouting overseas. Its not far off the kind of set up to what Arsene did when he 1st arrived. And even at this early stage its already bringing and showing results.

McLeish is no different to Moyes, Bruce, Pulis, McCarthy etc etc..You may as well have one of those as manger because they all think on the same level. Their vision and scope is all similar and they will always be just average. The only way to achieve success on a limited budget(in terms of City/Chelsea etc) is to stick a spanner into the works and bring a different approach.Variety is the spice of life...We can be doing this same old, same old for the next 15 years, until one day someone on our board decides to say "this approach dosnt work"...And only then can we start to get out of the Mr. Average club.

[Houlston]

What was the league record signing when Viera was bought for £3.5m? £12m? £15m?

What wages did he offer him when he signed? How does that compare to other clubs? To our wage structure now let alone back then?

Wenger is good, I dont dispute that but he's still paid decent money for players either in fees or wages, money that Villa doesn't have right now.

SO to use Wenger as the basis for the argument that Deschamps could turn Villa into a dominant team in Europe doesn't wash with me.

The production line in France for quality players is the best on globe. Deschamps would have the edge on knowing and ability to sign such players...Just like the position Wenger was in when he 1st landed on our shores.. McLeish v Deschamps = Deschamps can bring alot more to the table. 4m for Hutton? Or 4m for a top 4 quality player? Which would you prefer?

You should really think about changing your username to boeufnfrites

[juanpabloangel18]

The amount of shite being spouted on here is unbelievable...