dudevillaisnice Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 and inmy opinion even with a DCM (bearing in mind they probably wouldn't be world class given the situation at the club) we'd still be looking ropey at the back with a lack of quality at right back. Maybe.. but Hutton is no "quality right back" from what i've seen so far and we still look ropey when opponents attack his side.. he was also lucky on a couple of occasions not to give silly penalties away and get sent off. Whether or not we would get a "world class" DCM isn't the way I look at it.. look at newcastle £3.5M they paid for Tiote and £4.3m for Cabaye and what brilliant signings they have been.. it is possible to do it on a budget, though under this current manager we'll see I have my doubts .. so far he has been very hit and miss with Hutton and N'Zogbia being poor signings and waste of money so far.. they may come good later on but really these two should've hit the ground running fairly quickly or even show glimpses of quality as they are from the PL... Given has been brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 And I agree. But I think most of us would have expected N'Zog and to some degree Hutton to be performing at higher level than they currently are. You mention transfer fees, but as far as I can tell transfer fee's arent the issue at present, I would assume that if he could have loaned out Makoun and signed a player permanently on the same wages the £3-5m you mentioned would have been released by the board. I'm not saying we didn't need anybody, nor that he was right not buy anyone, what I am saying is he had a number of gaps to fill and for the most part managed to find players that are or should be up to the standard required. We do not, however, know what deals were attempted and fell through which is why I'm defending him against claims he's a shit mamanger because he didn't buy a DCM. They may be a number of reason why he's a shit manager, but I find it unfair to criticise him too harshly on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm not saying we didn't need anybody, nor that he was right not buy anyone, what I am saying is he had a number of gaps to fill and for the most part managed to find players that are or should be up to the standard required. We do not, however, know what deals were attempted and fell through which is why I'm defending him against claims he's a shit mamanger because he didn't buy a DCM. They may be a number of reason why he's a shit manager, but I find it unfair to criticise him too harshly on this issue. Completely disagree. We needed a DCM and he didn't sort it. Saying he may have had deals lined up that fell through is irrelevant as he had most of the summer to sort this glaring hole. What is worse, IMO, is that this position is the key to a football team as the DCM is the base for both defence and attack and is one of the two or three most crucial positions. I think you can get away with it to an extent in many other positions, e.g. MON's first season without a RB or RW, but not at the heart of your midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Some do not like Makoun - which you are suggesting is because they don't like Houllier - but are still big fans of Bent so I don't see how this works? If i remember nobody gave houllier credit for signing Bent. THey gave all the credit to Paul Faulkner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Completely disagree. We needed a DCM and he didn't sort it. Saying he may have had deals lined up that fell through is irrelevant as he had most of the summer to sort this glaring hole. Sorry but he did not have the whole summer to sort what you consider is a problem. He would have had the whole summer had he joined us in January or February and totally understood and known what the squad was about. And again if he was trying to sign a DCM the you dont know the full reasons behind one not been signed such as our board, the selling clubs board, another board putting in another offer, the player, the players family, the players agent etc etc etc. You seem to be arguing for aguing sake because you dont like McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellbydate Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 DCM or the "holding" player was barely even a recognised position more than 5 years ago. now it's one of the most important positions? teams were playing for years without it even existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Some do not like Makoun - which you are suggesting is because they don't like Houllier - but are still big fans of Bent so I don't see how this works? If i remember nobody gave houllier credit for signing Bent. THey gave all the credit to Paul Faulkner Does that mean all fans of Bent must be fans of Paul Faulkner? Somehow I don't think so... :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Completely disagree. We needed a DCM and he didn't sort it. Saying he may have had deals lined up that fell through is irrelevant as he had most of the summer to sort this glaring hole. Sorry but he did not have the whole summer to sort what you consider is a problem. He would have had the whole summer had he joined us in January or February and totally understood and known what the squad was about. He has seen us last season. He has all the videos. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to spot we are short of a DCM! £2m + a year should suggest that, if he were any good, he ought to be able to assess a team/squad fairly quickly. And again if he was trying to sign a DCM the you dont know the full reasons behind one not been signed such as our board, the selling clubs board, another board putting in another offer, the player, the players family, the players agent etc etc etc. You do know that there is more than one player that can play DCM. He had time, he should have sorted this IMO. You seem to be arguing for aguing sake because you dont like McLeish. I don't like McLeish. But not quite sure why my comments are for the sake of arguing whereas yours are valid? I am making these points because I don't rate McLeish as a manager and this is one of his failings as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 DCM or the "holding" player was barely even a recognised position more than 5 years ago. now it's one of the most important positions? teams were playing for years without it even existing. It depends how you want to describe the position. There was a bit more time and space years ago to play dual roles Souness and Case were winning the ball for the great Liverpool side, but were creative too. Giles & Bremner were also doing both. Mortimer and Bremner also chipped in with both perhaps Mortimer a bit more box to box and bremner the growler. but every team needs one. PS Before the above , they used to be called wing halves or half backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 You have to admit, did'nt have a clue what to do with ten men on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I'm not anti or pro Mcleish, but he was clueless today. Heskey in midfield? Hoof ball tactics? Infuriating to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 DCM or the "holding" player was barely even a recognised position more than 5 years ago. now it's one of the most important positions? teams were playing for years without it even existing. Excuse me, but what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Aston Villa boss Alex McLeish on Chris Herd's controversial red card in his side's defeat by West Brom: "The sending-off cost us severely - no doubt about it. The kid had started the game really well and we were looking good at that point. In the pictures I have seen it looked as if Chris was extricating his foot from Jonas Olsson's grasp and Olsson didn't react to it. If you'd been stamped on, you'd expect the player to complain." BBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I'm not anti or pro Mcleish, but he was clueless today. Heskey in midfield? Hoof ball tactics? Infuriating to watch IN fairness we needed somebody in midfield with a bit of presence and on our bench Heskey was best the only player capable of this. wouldnt throw Ireland or Albrighton in to centre midfield in a game like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I won't call for Mcleish's head - not because I rate him particulary - but cast you mind back to last summer ...who else was in the frame:- Mclaren Martinez its the person making the managerial appointments who needs to change ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laivasse Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I'm not anti or pro Mcleish, but he was clueless today. Heskey in midfield? Hoof ball tactics? Infuriating to watch IN fairness we needed somebody in midfield with a bit of presence and on our bench Heskey was best the only player capable of this. wouldnt throw Ireland or Albrighton in to centre midfield in a game like thatWas Clark on the bench today? I'd have had him instead. Normally I'd have no problem with bringing Heskey on in a situation where we need a bit of presence, but he was so diabolical against Man City that I didn't feel it could be justified today. In the match thread some said they thought Heskey was 'great', personally I saw him as diabolical once again - and like I say, normally I'm among the minority who appreciate the role he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 My biggest concern about Mcleish is that he doesn't seem to know what his first choice midfield should be. He keeps chopping and changing it, and they haven't looked settled or balanced all season, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 My biggest concern about Mcleish is that he doesn't seem to know what his first choice midfield should be. He keeps chopping and changing it, and they haven't looked settled or balanced all season, I don't think many people do as its inadequate. Its anybody's guess and one choice is arguably no better than the other. we have made c 30 mill on the sales of Milner,Young & Downing, but unfortunately it just papers over the money wasted on the dross. thtas where we are at. The midfield in particular requires urgent attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The midfield in particular requires urgent attention.It would help if N'Zogbia would start playing. Thought we were promised 1 brilliant performance in 5. I'm waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Absolute rubbish manager. "Imagine what he can do when fully backed" i think is what the general said. Well i think they key word was IMAGINE there. Midfield is right mish mash of crap. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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