Hanky Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I'm with Stevo on this one. It was clear on Saturday the way we set up was just contain. Now I see the point of not going gung ho, but at least play on the counter attack (much like we used to do). I think the reason the players don't give 100% is that they don't believe in what the manager is trying to do. It is also clear the fans haven't got a clue what he is trying to do either. Houllier had this plan, executed it pretty woefully but it was a plan nonetheless. I really don't know what McLeish is trying to do when he sets up the team, and it's rubbing off on the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irreverentad Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I'm with Stevo on this one. It was clear on Saturday the way we set up was just contain. Now I see the point of not going gung ho, but at least play on the counter attack (much like we used to do). I think the reason the players don't give 100% is that they don't believe in what the manager is trying to do. It is also clear the fans haven't got a clue what he is trying to do either. Houllier had this plan, executed it pretty woefully but it was a plan nonetheless. I really don't know what McLeish is trying to do when he sets up the team, and it's rubbing off on the players. The players haven't given 100% since the League Cup final. So that is now MON, Houllier and McLeish. Our club needs leaders on the pitch desperately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted December 7, 2011 Steveo - Good points well made. However I saw too many straight forward passes go astray against Spurs, Swansea and on saturday to 100% agree the tactics are the only problem. I just cant put all the blamwe on one mans lap while theres a number of players not pulling their weight. If they all gave 100% (whether they believed in the cause or not) and it still didnt work, Neither me or Mcliesh would have a leg to stand on I can't disagree. Tactics aren't the only problem at all. I would argue, though, that they are the biggest problem. The players aren't giving 100%. But you could argue that that could (emphasis on could) be because they don't elieve in the system, or manage, or teammates. You could also argue that it's the manager's job to make his players give 100% Ultimately we can agree that the players aren't blameless. I think I just place a smaller amount of blame on them than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 The players aren't giving 100%. But you could argue that that could (emphasis on could) be because they don't elieve in the system, or manage, or teammates. I have no doubt that that is the reason and for me that is an utter disgrace. Many people (not you btw ) have told me to wake up and smell the coffee when they try and convince me that Lerner is taking us backwards???? Madness imo - Hes just trying to sustain the club!! But these tossers who we seem unable to turn on - there taking the piss! There taking the utter piss. Darren Bent is laughing. Got us exactly where he wants us - worshipping him/feeling sorry for him/making excuses for him like the managers tactics don't work for him. Hes barely given the tactics a go! They get an extortionate wage for next to nothing. An easy life! And then they have the audacity to pick and choose when they can be arsed?? And why?? Because they don't quite believe in the manager and the way he wants to do things. And its not just with Mcliesh, it was with Houllier and O'Neill. No doubt O'Leary and Taylor. When are we going to wake up as individuals and stop worshipping these overpaid individuals who's inconsistent effort proves they dont give a toss about us, never mind AVFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Randy isn't taking us backwards - but McLeish is. Also, it doesn't really matter how much Bent tries. No matter what he does he's not going to be able to score that many goals when he's isolated up top while the other 10 men are behind the ball defending the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 i have to disagree with that woody to some extent... players are only human....Darren Bent cared last season when he scored 9 in 16 and he cares this season after scoring just 5 goals and hardly having any shots on goal... the difference is he's playing in a shitter team with a shitter manager..... i've played in my fair share of sunday league teams...some shit some good ......it was great to play in the good ones, you got chances, gained confidence and you looked like a decent player no matter how shit you were as an individual!.... and it was horrible to play in the shit ones....running around like a headless chicken hardly touching the ball as the opposition rang rings around you.... i tried equally as hard for both teams but my role was very different in each..... football is full of overpaid tossers il admit...but our darren isn't one of them! i honestly do not see what he could be doing differently with the style of play McLeish adopts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Randy isn't taking us backwards - but McLeish is. Also, it doesn't really matter how much Bent tries. No matter what he does he's not going to be able to score that many goals when he's isolated up top while the other 10 men are behind the ball defending the entire game. It matters to me Mantis. Listen I dont agree with Mcliesh's tactics by any stretch of the imagination but I guarantee Darren Bent will get more out of a game that he puts 100% in (regardless of tactics) than what he would not putting 100% in. And that goes for all of them. I would also have a lot more respect for them. So far not one of them is anywhere near excusable for the current form of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Randy isn't taking us backwards - but McLeish is. Also, it doesn't really matter how much Bent tries. No matter what he does he's not going to be able to score that many goals when he's isolated up top while the other 10 men are behind the ball defending the entire game. It matters to me Mantis. Listen I dont agree with Mcliesh's tactics by any stretch of the imagination but I guarantee Darren Bent will get more out of a game that he puts 100% in (regardless of tactics) than what he would not putting 100% in. And that goes for all of them. I would also have a lot more respect for them. So far not one of them is anywhere near excusable for the current form of the team.I don't really see what he's doing wrong? He's constantly getting balls pumped up to him from defense. He tries to get them but most centre-backs are taller and better at heading the ball than he is. His game is getting balls played ALONG THE FLOOR TO HIS FEET. We know that, he knows that and McLeish should know that. Unfortunately however he doesn't by the looks of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Randy isn't taking us backwards - but McLeish is. Also, it doesn't really matter how much Bent tries. No matter what he does he's not going to be able to score that many goals when he's isolated up top while the other 10 men are behind the ball defending the entire game. It matters to me Mantis. Listen I dont agree with Mcliesh's tactics by any stretch of the imagination but I guarantee Darren Bent will get more out of a game that he puts 100% in (regardless of tactics) than what he would not putting 100% in. And that goes for all of them. I would also have a lot more respect for them. So far not one of them is anywhere near excusable for the current form of the team. what could Bent do that he isn't doing now Woody to make you think he is putting in 100%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 players are only human.... If he (and the rest - this is not a witch hunt from me) is so 'only human' that he cannot put 100% effort in all the time (and I don't think he is) he should NOT be on the wage he is. He accepted that ridiculous contract (as I would) - he should meet the minimum requirements at least, without fuss. And my minimum requirement would be to give 100% to the cause!! Agree with the rest of your post, and I also accept that you may believe he and the rest are giving their best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Randy isn't taking us backwards - but McLeish is. Randy appointed the manager, therefore he has faith in McLeish doing a task. That task is to take Aston Villa backwards at maximum speed. If we do well the players, manager and chairman deserve a pat on the back. When they don’t its the players, manager and the chairman who must share some of the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Randy isn't taking us backwards - but McLeish is. Also, it doesn't really matter how much Bent tries. No matter what he does he's not going to be able to score that many goals when he's isolated up top while the other 10 men are behind the ball defending the entire game. It matters to me Mantis. Listen I dont agree with Mcliesh's tactics by any stretch of the imagination but I guarantee Darren Bent will get more out of a game that he puts 100% in (regardless of tactics) than what he would not putting 100% in. And that goes for all of them. I would also have a lot more respect for them. So far not one of them is anywhere near excusable for the current form of the team.I don't really see what he's doing wrong? He's constantly getting balls pumped up to him from defense. He tries to get them but most centre-backs are taller and better at heading the ball than he is. His game is getting balls played ALONG THE FLOOR TO HIS FEET. We know that, he knows that and McLeish should know that. Unfortunately however he doesn't by the looks of it. Have a positive body language like he wants to be there. And go looking for the ball (or attempt to) like Rooney does. No thats not his game and it won't get him goals but hes not getting goals just feeling sorry for himself. I really do think the whole team could put more effort into the cause!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 We ask too much from Bent. He may be a brilliant finisher but he can't finish every chance he gets. He gets no service all game and and he does get that one chance he misses because he is probably just as surprised as the fans that he got the ball. You can't expect a player to go a full 90 with less than 30 touches and be able to finish every odd chance he gets. The only reason gabby is having a decent season is because gabby gets fed up and decides to be selfish and go for goal himself. Bent isn't the type of player that can create for himself and never has been. He needs someone creating the chances so he can finish them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 i honestly would struggle at the moment to criticise our players for a lack of effort... the only players i would question are Hutton and Zogbia coz they sometimes looks like they can't be arsed to run.... but our Dunne, collinsand Warnock (although average) all put their body on the line and commit themselves to every game.... herd and petrov always appear full blooded in the tackle... Marc, bannan, delph are always full of energy and determination... Gabby yet again covers more ground than anyone... then we come to Bent...our official headless chicken...i dont know the stats but i bet he covers a lot of ground probably only second to gabby.... i believe 99% of them are giving 100%...unfortunatly because of mcLeish, they are giving 100% at defending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Randy isn't taking us backwards - but McLeish is. Also, it doesn't really matter how much Bent tries. No matter what he does he's not going to be able to score that many goals when he's isolated up top while the other 10 men are behind the ball defending the entire game. It matters to me Mantis. Listen I dont agree with Mcliesh's tactics by any stretch of the imagination but I guarantee Darren Bent will get more out of a game that he puts 100% in (regardless of tactics) than what he would not putting 100% in. And that goes for all of them. I would also have a lot more respect for them. So far not one of them is anywhere near excusable for the current form of the team.I don't really see what he's doing wrong? He's constantly getting balls pumped up to him from defense. He tries to get them but most centre-backs are taller and better at heading the ball than he is. His game is getting balls played ALONG THE FLOOR TO HIS FEET. We know that, he knows that and McLeish should know that. Unfortunately however he doesn't by the looks of it. Have a positive body language like he wants to be there. And go looking for the ball (or attempt to) like Rooney does. No thats not his game and it won't get him goals but hes not getting goals just feeling sorry for himself. I really do think the whole team could put more effort into the cause!! but if he goes looking for the ball deeper... who's gonna be in the box? the past 3 games we've barely had 3 players in the opposing half...Bent can't afford to come deeper because that would mean we would have 11 men behind the ball! so frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Thats fair enough Sonic_Bouma. I wholeheartedly disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Thats fair enough Sonic_Bouma. I wholeheartedly disagree fair dos i think we share a frustration to what we are seeing at least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 ESPN showed Bent running from defender to defender trying to get the ball as they passed it around whilst having no other player help him just sitting back waiting for the ball to be played forward by Man U.The tactics where all wrong AMC has no clue.Hernandez went off and Man U changed shape and we were all over the place with no direction. Bent has scored goals everywhere now they have dried up and AMC is the one to blame for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 4 shots on target in 10 of our leagues and the least amount of touches of the ball overall. Bent has no support thanks to the shocking tactics used by our manager. Rather than create numerous chances for probably our best player he's left to create chances for himself which has never been a big strength of his. Mcleish out. Randy out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 If he goes in January I will be so upset and angry. How does Mcleish not realise that he is letting our best source of goals slip away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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