Ads Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) There are people on the deck with more knowledge on the subject than me or you who believe in Turkish involvement. Why do you think Barry was caught in the headlights regarding arming Syrian rebels? There are no good guys or bad guys in all this, only different shades of grey. It would be naïve to believe otherwise. Remember that at the time, ISIS were not like al Qaeda; their targets were Shia's and this was a region specific Jihad. It has only been since the air strikes by US forces that you have heard al Baghdadi grandstanding about bringing the US into a wider conflict [by targeting Kuwait one would imagine]. Their early conduct in Iraq was brutal, but don't forget they were initially invited in by Sunni's in Mosul to assist in resisting the sectarian government forces. There is a reason that they tried to provide state services, suggesting they had learnt from the defunct AQI. Somebody trained, armed and funded IS. We know the Kingdom and the Qataris hands are all over this and we know that their ranks have now been swelled by old Baathists and ex-Iraqi Army, but prior to this they stood up against the likes of Hezbollah. Somebody trained them and we know from the Turkish PMs own words that he was planning on dealing with whoever succeeded Assad. Edit: There is an article here regarding the allegations of the Turks picking up IS oil on the cheap. A segment from the article says $800 million worth of oil that ISIS obtained from regions it occupied this year [the Rumelian oil fields in northern Syria - and most recently Mosul] is being sold in Turkey. They have pipes from villages near the Turkish border Hatay... It also has bits on MIT assisting militants across its borders. The rest of the article is here http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/tr/business/2014/06/turkey-syria-isis-selling-smuggled-oil.html# Edited August 12, 2014 by Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Reports that Israel broke the latest ceasefire by firing at some fishermen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 12, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2014 Reports that Israel broke the latest ceasefire by firing at some fishermen.Thats not breaking the ceasefire, they were just practising and hoping that Hunt the Fisherman is going to be an Olympic sport soon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 12, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2014 Reports that Israel broke the latest ceasefire by firing at some fishermen. It's their own fault, should have stayed on the beech they would have been safe there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Reports that Israel broke the latest ceasefire by firing at some fishermen. It's their own fault, should have stayed on the beech they would have been safe there Not without the hotel industry infrastructure to support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Israel have a policy of the only lives that matter to them are their own. They will protect them at all costs regardless of the innocent people they kill in the process. This policy will not change until the political system in the US changes. Where all of Congress need to do favours for their financial backers. So give money to candidates and ask for nothing but a remain the same approach to support of Israel. So while you want to post the same stuff about Israel, typing out sentences about how outraged you are is ultimately completely fruitless. But slowly increasing comment for change in US political system may actually do something to change Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The latest of the 130 US advisors to be sent to Iraq have been confirmed as a mixture of Marines and Special Forces. Barry needs to stop dithering on this one and either put boots on the deck (he won't) or provide serious around the clock CAS to the Peshmerga. IS and their ex-Iraqi army/civil servants are busy digging in and creating state apparatus and it's going to take more than a dribble of air strikes to get rid of them. Barry is hoping the solution will come from within and that the Iraq's will reach a political settlement. He should be reminded that his dithering over Syria allowed the Kingdom and the Qataris to run away with themselves and chuck all sorts of funds as ISIS in the vacuum of US indecision. Hilary wouldn't have stood for this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnie Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Why should the US give a damn about Palestine when after 9/11 there was mass celebrations on the streets of Palestine about the deaths of innocent Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted August 13, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2014 The latest of the 130 US advisors to be sent to Iraq .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 13, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2014 Why should the US give a damn about Palestine when after 9/11 there was mass celebrations on the streets of Palestine about the deaths of innocent Americans.Words really have failed me here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islingtonclaret Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Why should the US give a damn about Palestine when after 9/11 there was mass celebrations on the streets of Palestine about the deaths of innocent Americans. Words really have failed me here... Maybe the diplomacy should follow this model and we see what happens? Ah, right. Vicious circle. Forgot about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnie Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Why should the US give a damn about Palestine when after 9/11 there was mass celebrations on the streets of Palestine about the deaths of innocent Americans. Words really have failed me here... Not sure why...do you not feel feelings from that may play a small part in US reluctance to intervene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 If a few extremists burned the american flag on September 11th that doesn't mean you can condemn the whole nation for it and it also doesn't prevent you from being a human and empathising with the 1500 civilian victims of the attack on Gaza. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Why should the US give a damn about Palestine when after 9/11 there was mass celebrations on the streets of Palestine about the deaths of innocent Americans. Words really have failed me here... Not sure why...do you not feel feelings from that may play a small part in US reluctance to intervene? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_September_11_attacks ...Almost all Muslim political and religious leaders condemned the attacks. The leaders vehemently denouncing the attacks included ... the Palestinian Authority (Yasser Arafat).. ...Renowned Muslim scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks and the unprovoked killings of thousands of American civilians as a "heinous crime" and urged Muslims to donate blood to the victims. He did, however, criticize the United States' "biased policy towards Israel" and also called on Muslims to "concentrate on facing the occupying enemy directly", inside the Palestinian territories.%5B24%5D The alleged Hezbollah "spiritual mentor" and Lebanese Shia cleric Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah condemned the attacks.Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, harshly condemned and denounced the attacks and also stated that he was not interested in exporting such attacks to the United States, however he criticized the "unfair American position"... A group of Palestinians were filmed celebrating in the street in celebration of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the deaths of Americans. Fox News reported that in Ein el-Hilweh, Lebanon's largest Palestinian refugee camp, revelers fired weapons in the air, with similar celebratory gunfire heard at the Rashidiyeh camp near the southern city of Tyre as well.%5B25%5D The Palestinian National Authority (PNA) condemned the attacks and attempted to censure and discredit broadcasts and other news reports.%5B25%5D with many newspapers, magazines,websites and wire services running photographs.%5B31%5D%5B32%5D The PNA claimed such celebrations were not representative of the sentiments of the Palestinian people, and the Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said the PNA would not allow "a few kids" to "smear the real face of the Palestinians". In an attempt to quash further reporting, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's Cabinet secretary, said the Palestinian Authority could not "guarantee the life" of an Associated Press (AP) cameraman if footage he filmed of post-9/11 celebrations in Nablus was broadcast. Rahman's statement prompted a formal protest from the AP bureau chief, Dan Perry.%5B33%5D%5B32%5D Annette Krüger Spitta of the ARD's (German public broadcasting) TV magazine Panorama states that footage not aired shows that the street surrounding the celebration in Jerusalem is quiet. Furthermore, she states that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and gathered people together for the shot. The Panorama report, dated September 20, 2001, quotes Communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults but there is no indication that their pleasure is related to the attack. The woman seen cheering (Nawal Abdel Fatah) stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera, and was frightened when she saw the pictures on television afterward. First, your statement is factually incorrect as a depiction of the attitude of Palestinians to the attack. Second, you appear to think that US-Palestinian relations emerged in 2001, with attitudes based on 9/11 rather than anything else. In fact, given the very long history of the US funding, arming, and supporting the Israelis and their murderous actions, it is astonishing that Palestinians demonstrated so much generosity of spirit as described in what I have quoted. Third, if you believe that world relations should be based on whether offence is taken at some perceived slight, I suggest that your world view is more like tales of savage and vengeful gods and warlords than something relating to the modern world. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 13, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2014 Oh peterms quit with letting intelligent analysis and empirical sources get in the way of good old ignorance and wild ass assumptions will you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Probably wise not to conflate global Jihadists with groups whose aims and goals are nationalist ones. They're all Islamists, but then that is a very broad term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) Why should the US give a damn about Palestine when after 9/11 there was mass celebrations on the streets of Palestine about the deaths of innocent Americans. Those celebrations from some people in Gaza were because America funds Israel. Gives them Billions in "aid". Sells them state of the art weapons. A release of anger at a country who has done that is understandable. Disproportionate response from Israel in Gaza is only possible because American political system is at the heels of big lobby groups and their deep pockets. They are happy to take action and sanctions because Russia arms Russian people who live in majority Russian areas of Ukraine and want to join Russia. If American politics changed the UN could move into Gaza as peace keepers and Israel couldn't do anything to resist the combined United the 5 permanent members were in agreement. Lots can be done if American Politics wasn't a farce and a shambles of what it was meant to be. Edited August 13, 2014 by CVByrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 read somewhere that america gave birth to hamas and funded them at the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Thought that was Israel? The US (CIA) helped create al-Qaeda, to try and hold of the Soviets from Invading Afghanistan. Operation Cyclone, the CIA channeled funds through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the Afghan Mujahideen who were fighting the Soviet occupation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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