Villaboy69 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 It depends on your definition of class. If it's completing umpteen short passes in your own half then yes he was class against Man U. If it's completing umpteen passes with attacking intent and purpose I'd say he was not. My opinion from the games he played for us are the latter That Xavi's shit then isn't he. I saw the pitch data from that game as well, you're wrong. Please please tell me you're not trying to compare the way Xavi plays with that of J2M. As for that pitch map, well if you look at it and read the article it becomes pretty clear that he may have kept the ball well in that particular game but he really did absolutely nothing at all with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Does anyone know if he is actually back at the club? All i hope is that Lambert has a look at him and makes a decision to sell or keep, there is no point in not getting the chance to look at him over the pre-season. i have no idea if he will stay but i think he deserves a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Hopefully Lambert wants to give him a fresh chance but I just get the feeling that it's more to do with whether Makoun wants to stay with us. I have a horrible feeling he wants to move, probably back to France, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I am sure lambo will look him over. But the odds of him becoming a vp regular are heavily stacked against him Ask yourself how many senior pros - get shipped out on loan - then return and make it at that club. Would you for example expect jenas to play a starring role at spurs next season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I see the point you're making but I don't think the comparison really works. Spurs are successful and have a good squad. They sent Jenas out on loan to regain match fitness from coming back from injury and because 'arry knew he was low in the pecking order so he wouldn't get a game. McLeish sent Makoun away without giving him a chance because he's either a shit manager who doesn't seem to favour players with skill and good passing, or Makoun asked to be sent out on loan for his own reasons. This is why I think it's more up to Makoun whether he stays or goes. I can see Lambert wanting to give him a chance and a fresh start since he's a good manager who actually tells his team to attack instead of defending all the time. Also, it would save some money for us having to go out and buy another player, meaning we can focus on other areas of the team to improve. But if it was Makoun's choice to leave on loan and he still wants out, then there's not much we can do. In short, if Makoun wants to stay, I could see him being heavily involved in the first team next season and the Jenas/Spurs comparison isn't really valid. Speaking of Spurs however, would anyone take Tom Huddlestone? I always thought he was quite good. Has he been injured for a while or just out of favour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_75 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Ask yourself how many senior pros - get shipped out on loan - then return and make it at that club. Dion Dublin maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted June 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 17, 2012 ...he may have kept the ball well in that particular game but he really did absolutely nothing at all with it right, this is my biggest, number 1, most huge **** problem with the british attitude to football. it has been the problem with our national side forever, the problem with how we coach kids, the main reason we don't encourage or produce technically gifted players too. for **** sake, KEEPING THE BALL IS DOING SOMETHING WITH IT. keeping the ball for it's own sake means YOUR TEAM HAVE THE BALL AND THE OTHER ONE DOESN'T. they cannot score without the football. if he gets a chance and all he does all season **** long is KEEP THE BALL FOR OUR TEAM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARK. he will be an invaluable asset. don't normally shout with caps lock, but i hate people sputing all this bullshit about "tippy-tappy ineffective football". all the best sides in the history of the game back to puskas' hungary have kept the ball well. once you make sure you can keep it, then you can start thinking about scoring with it. much harder to score without it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Nothing with the ball? Look at last season when we couldnt keep it. Makoun keeps possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 ...he may have kept the ball well in that particular game but he really did absolutely nothing at all with it right, this is my biggest, number 1, most huge **** problem with the british attitude to football. it has been the problem with our national side forever, the problem with how we coach kids, the main reason we don't encourage or produce technically gifted players too. for **** sake, KEEPING THE BALL IS DOING SOMETHING WITH IT. keeping the ball for it's own sake means YOUR TEAM HAVE THE BALL AND THE OTHER ONE DOESN'T. they cannot score without the football. if he gets a chance and all he does all season **** long is KEEP THE BALL FOR OUR TEAM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARK. he will be an invaluable asset. don't normally shout with caps lock, but i hate people sputing all this bullshit about "tippy-tappy ineffective football". all the best sides in the history of the game back to puskas' hungary have kept the ball well. once you make sure you can keep it, then you can start thinking about scoring with it. much harder to score without it... Bang on. We need him back. Even looking at Swansea, would they have finished as high as they did unless they kept majority possession most of the time. They pass it around and if no one is available going forward they will keep it in the middle a bit or go back in order to keep possession so the other team don't have the ball thus meaning they can't score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 ...he may have kept the ball well in that particular game but he really did absolutely nothing at all with it right, this is my biggest, number 1, most huge **** problem with the british attitude to football. it has been the problem with our national side forever, the problem with how we coach kids, the main reason we don't encourage or produce technically gifted players too. for **** sake, KEEPING THE BALL IS DOING SOMETHING WITH IT. keeping the ball for it's own sake means YOUR TEAM HAVE THE BALL AND THE OTHER ONE DOESN'T. they cannot score without the football. if he gets a chance and all he does all season **** long is KEEP THE BALL FOR OUR TEAM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARK. he will be an invaluable asset. don't normally shout with caps lock, but i hate people sputing all this bullshit about "tippy-tappy ineffective football". all the best sides in the history of the game back to puskas' hungary have kept the ball well. once you make sure you can keep it, then you can start thinking about scoring with it. much harder to score without it... Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I hope lambert doesn't get stick if he's not interested in the man, the myth, the legend that is Jean Makoun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggy_333 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I hope lambert doesn't get stick if he's not interested in the man, the myth, the legend that is Jean Makoun. It's not a case of people considering him to be a legend, it's more that some people would like to see more of him before he's written off as another Sidwell, Djemba Djemba or dare i say it...Salifou! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaboy69 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 What bollocks. u need to be a bit more progressive with the ball. yes all the best side keep the ball and move it swiftly and effectively. i dont on the other hand want to see 2 yards passes for no reason. these a difference between keepjng the ball and dojng it with purpose. Tippy tappy football leads to nothing. crisp pass and move ball retention leads to teams like barcelona. Thats the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaboy69 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 What bollocks. u need to be a bit more progressive with the ball. yes all the best side keep the ball and move it swiftly and effectively. i dont on the other hand want to see 2 yards passes for no reason. these a difference between keepjng the ball and dojng it with purpose. Tippy tappy football leads to nothing. crisp pass and move ball retention leads to teams like barcelona. Thats the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted June 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 17, 2012 What bollocks. u need to be a bit more progressive with the ball. yes all the best side keep the ball and move it swiftly and effectively. i dont on the other hand want to see 2 yards passes for no reason. these a difference between keepjng the ball and dojng it with purpose. Tippy tappy football leads to nothing. crisp pass and move ball retention leads to teams like barcelona. Thats the difference what if the choice is between a two yard pass and losing the ball? i don't get your point at all. you need to be more progressive? yeah, when you have a chance to do it absolutely. trying to force the issue so that you lose the ball is just as stupid as passing backwards when you could have put someone through. there is a difference between keeping the ball just for the sake of keeping the ball and being patient and ignoring an attacking opportunity in favour of going backwards! barcelona are the most tippy tappy of any team i think i have ever seen, i don't get where your distinction is between crisp pass and move and tippy tappy. 2 yard passes? short passes? barcelona are full of them for 90 minutes every game. difference between keeping the ball and doing it with purpose? um. for me the difference is between keeping the ball or losing it trying to attack when nothing is on. if you have a midfielder that recycles the ball, keeps it, moves it on to another player. that player is a good player for me. i reckon makoun is that sort of player. one of our big problems is keeping the ball. no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 ...he may have kept the ball well in that particular game but he really did absolutely nothing at all with it right, this is my biggest, number 1, most huge **** problem with the british attitude to football. it has been the problem with our national side forever, the problem with how we coach kids, the main reason we don't encourage or produce technically gifted players too. for **** sake, KEEPING THE BALL IS DOING SOMETHING WITH IT. keeping the ball for it's own sake means YOUR TEAM HAVE THE BALL AND THE OTHER ONE DOESN'T. they cannot score without the football. if he gets a chance and all he does all season **** long is KEEP THE BALL FOR OUR TEAM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARK. he will be an invaluable asset. don't normally shout with caps lock, but i hate people sputing all this bullshit about "tippy-tappy ineffective football". all the best sides in the history of the game back to puskas' hungary have kept the ball well. once you make sure you can keep it, then you can start thinking about scoring with it. much harder to score without it... Bang on. We need him back. Even looking at Swansea, would they have finished as high as they did unless they kept majority possession most of the time. They pass it around and if no one is available going forward they will keep it in the middle a bit or go back in order to keep possession so the other team don't have the ball thus meaning they can't score. Watching Germany against Holland and focusing on Schweinsteiger in particular, he marshals their play in the opposition half, always looking for the return ball and playing back if need be but in the attacking half and with the intent of going forward and creating an opening. We need someone like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I hope lambert doesn't get stick if he's not interested in the man, the myth, the legend that is Jean Makoun. It's not a case of people considering him to be a legend, it's more that some people would like to see more of him before he's written off as another Sidwell, Djemba Djemba or dare i say it...Salifou!Exactly. I'm not going to start calling for his head or giving him grief if he doesn't show any interest in Makoun but he does deserve a chance at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted June 17, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted June 17, 2012 ...he may have kept the ball well in that particular game but he really did absolutely nothing at all with it right, this is my biggest, number 1, most huge **** problem with the british attitude to football. it has been the problem with our national side forever, the problem with how we coach kids, the main reason we don't encourage or produce technically gifted players too. for **** sake, KEEPING THE BALL IS DOING SOMETHING WITH IT. keeping the ball for it's own sake means YOUR TEAM HAVE THE BALL AND THE OTHER ONE DOESN'T. they cannot score without the football. if he gets a chance and all he does all season **** long is KEEP THE BALL FOR OUR TEAM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARK. he will be an invaluable asset. don't normally shout with caps lock, but i hate people sputing all this bullshit about "tippy-tappy ineffective football". all the best sides in the history of the game back to puskas' hungary have kept the ball well. once you make sure you can keep it, then you can start thinking about scoring with it. much harder to score without it... Good post. Our ball retention is terrible, we need players like Makoun who can keep the ball and move it well. But it works both ways, if other players aren't moving into space then all he will be doing is passing it sideways. If players move the ball in triangles then we'll move up the pitch better. Very very basic, but since MON came our movement has been absolutely terrible. (may have been before MON came too, i cant remember how we played then) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 "If you have the ball the other team can't score". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Our ball retention is terrible, we need players like Makoun who can keep the ball and move it well. We need players who can do that. I'm not sure why people are so confident makoun is that player to do that job at this level though. He was impressive against man u but IMO I didn't see anything close to that performance in any other game. He was garbage at home to Newcastle and was rightly subbed. I'm happy for him to be give a chance under lambert but until he actually proves anything I think it's a bit much to claim his a player we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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