Who do you believe is at fault for this situation

[VILLAFC2000]

I do not think that the question should be that Black and White. Unfortunately it is not quite as simple as which one or order is to blame for the antics. There are so many factors that need to be considered.

In my opinion I do not think that MON should solely be made the scape goat.

The board has clearly stressed their ambitions for winning trophies and aiming to finish in the top four. How genuine and realistic are these targets?

You cannot blame MON for leaving when the board turn around to you and aspire for a top four finish and trophy success when they: -

- Sell your best player James Milner because the player realises that he will get more money and opportunities of success at a bigger club (the same reason as Barry)

-You are told that although there is still a five year plan and aspirations of CL you are not allowed to spend the 18 million pounds that you have got on new players such as Aiden Mageedy.

- the wage bill is too high and you will have to reduce your squad and wages even though competitors such as Liverpool, Tottenham, Man city Arsenal have a much bigger squad in terms of quality and wages.

- You will not be able to keep your best players such as Ashley Young in the future because we wont be able to offer him wages and sucess that Spurs, Liverpool, Man city and Arsenal can offer him.

- MON had high ambitions for Villa and there was a real belief around the players, board and fans that we were heading in the right ambition. I think he realised that the club did not want to back him the financially which is also understandable.

Can MON solely be at fault for Villas form?

The question that needs to be asked is can Villa and other PL teams’ succeed without investment?

Don’t get me wrong I think its fine to be financially sound. Especially after looking around and watching what has happened to the likes of Leeds and Southampton. I just feel that if we want to keep the club financially stable then we should not have massive hype and aspirations around us finishing in the top four winning trophies and competing for the CL. This is not likely to happen unless we spend money and have a top manager.

The PL is difficult .The reality in the premier league if you want to succeed ( CL, FA CUP, League cup)95% of the time you have to spend money. It is implausible that Villa can have success and be finically secure. Something has to give in this case its the clubs success.

Randy learner really has done a great job and its not an easy job , since being here for example: -

-The rebuilding of the Holte Hotel

- The mosaics of the Holte end

-Free scalfs and coach travels for fans

- employing the general who has legendary commitment to the fans

- For completing the building of Body moor heath.

- Investing money for transfers and wages.

Up the VILLA, Heres to a Chelsea Hatrick for Heskey!

[TRO]

After having a good think about it my thoughts are the following :-

The 6th places meant nothing, it got us nothing and we did not build on it. It may as well be 2 x 14th places for all the good it does. Barry, Milner and Young did not/ will not walk out of VP with a tear in there eyes looking back saying "sniff sniff, but they got 6 th twice in a row, should I really be leaving ?". If it was so ace where are they now ?

I don't get the jump on GH and get him sacked asap, he has bought none of his own players in and who else is there that would make everyone happy. It does not really matter who is the manager, without funds they will all look clueless.

Looking at the players in all the games this year I am off the opinion that Jose Mourinho or anyone would not have many more points than we have now. They are just not good enough. Yes we got 6 th twice but circumstances of the league and other teams helped with that IMO. (I am well aware the common response is going to be "Yeah but MON got 6th with this lot", if MON had not left we would still be where we are now, hard pill to swallow but there you go. reality hurts sometimes.

We need someone upstairs who has a clue about football, a right hand man for Lerner. Filter the decisions by a Director of football, every decision. Dunno, thinking out loud, someone like Venables who has a bit of a clue.

MON is virtually 99 % at fault for all this, ask yourself the question "what would have made him stay ?" (About 30M pound, that's what. He knew we were **** so he **** off or he thought we were well placed to go for the Holy Grail again and display the 6TH in big letters from an open top bus, he would not have left then though so i can conclude he knew we were in trouble and is such a Villa man he just went. The timing done to create maximum damage to the club. Nice one.!-)

5 years to build a squad with virtually no re-sale value that has cost us how much in wages. The list is well known of the suicidal buys and failures. (Barry / Milner, yep we did well there money wise and the sale of them really pushed us on)

I can't really lay much blame on Lerner, I would like to but find it difficult. I think he was just had over by MON.

Watching the games without my Villa specs on we are playing some of the worst football I can remember, the Villa have put out some press stuff about how hard it is for any team to get real quality players in January. We will see, depends on who we want to sell though to get the market moving. When I said any team I mean just us it seems, our success rate in January is appalling but I am sure we will oil the wheels for everyone else though.

(Just had a quick look on the gossip column on the BBC sport, phew the Villa were bang on correct, it's completely empty of rumours or possible transfers. As they said, virtually impossible to trade in January, words removed)

To solve get a GK / CB / LB / AM / DM / ST. 30M - 40M spend needed in January or start putting the address's of Doncaster / Preston etc in your Tom Tom's ready for August.

that is well contructed and just about sums up my sentiments.

6th 6th 6th can't be consumed without 7- 7- 10 -8 which shows what a mixed bag it was under O'Neill.

[Zatman]

I can understand MON walking out being responsible for some of our early poor performances but to keep blaming him for results like yesterday is just ridiculous.

Redknapp didn't have a preseason with spurs or any chance to sign players and he got off to a great start as soon as he took over. How on earth did he manage such a thing?

Had a transfer window in 2 months were he paid huge money for Defoe, Palacios and Keane.

Houllier never had a window

[heffoman]

I can understand MON walking out being responsible for some of our early poor performances but to keep blaming him for results like yesterday is just ridiculous.

Redknapp didn't have a preseason with spurs or any chance to sign players and he got off to a great start as soon as he took over. How on earth did he manage such a thing?

Had a transfer window in 2 months were he paid huge money for Defoe, Palacios and Keane.

Houllier never had a window

From the ever reliable wikopedia.

Spurs had secured only two points from the first eight games of the season prior to Redknapp's arrival and lay bottom of the league, but in his first two weeks in charge he took the club out of the relegation zone, winning ten out of the twelve points available with wins against Bolton Wanderers, Liverpool and Manchester City and a remarkable 4–4 draw against North London rivals Arsenal.

All done before he had a chance to invest in the team.

[Zatman]

If i remember i could be wrong they were still in bottom 5 by transfer window time

[heffoman]

Was that not because they had only 2 points from their first 8 games? It just shows a good manager can make some difference without buying.

[SwanVsDalton]

There's a huge difference between writing a season off due to a mangerial departure and staring relegation in the face.

Just because MON did a disservice doesn't mean Houllier isn't doing a flat out rubbish job that no transfer window is likely to rectify.

The idea that this is mostly MON's fault is so ludicrous it blows my mind. Houllier's accrued 13 points from a possible 42, a side which was previously one of the best defensive outfits in the Premiership has conceded about 23 goals in that time and only managed to score 13. But, of course, it's MON's fault because the players are all rubbish really and Houllier needs to bring in his own men.

You guys can't have it both ways - we had a strong squad last year which is largely intact now. That side finished 6th and gave us two excellent cup runs. The same side this year is totally underperforming. People can harp about injuries but we've had strong enough players to produce better than the rubbish we're seeing. Yet now, all of a sudden, these players are rubbish and, actually, have always been rubbish and it's all the fault of some guy who hasn't been here in half a year.

What next? Nazi's at fault for global warming because of their war effort in the 40's? Or maybe the recession is actually the fault of King Henry VII feudel based economic policy? Jesus wept...

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Looking at the players in all the games this year I am off the opinion that Jose Mourinho or anyone would not have many more points than we have now. They are just not good enough. Yes we got 6 th twice but circumstances of the league and other teams helped with that IMO. (I am well aware the common response is going to be "Yeah but MON got 6th with this lot", if MON had not left we would still be where we are now, hard pill to swallow but there you go. reality hurts sometimes.

.

Really?

We still have a squad of players that would walk into at least half of the premiership sides starting elevens.

Totally 100 % disagree, Heskey, Warnock, Beye, Coker, Dunne, Collins, Freidal just as a few examples. I am struggling to think of 12 or 13 teams these would walk into, would Holloway have them considering how well they are doing for example, I think not.

MON got the most out of them, as a team they outperformed their individual abilities.

T

We currently have no team.

Really?

We still have a squad of players that would walk into at least half of the premiership sides starting elevens.

Totally 100 % disagree, Heskey, Warnock, Beye, Coker, Dunne, Collins, Freidal just as a few examples. I am struggling to think of 12 or 13 teams these would all walk into, would Holloway have them considering how well they are doing for example, I think not. they would struggle to get into a chmionship side IMO

MON got the most out of them, as a team they outperformed their individual abilities.

Time to get the red shoes out and do some clicking, the wonderful wizard of MON and his amazing mystical powers. So if MON had died in a car crash we would still be in the same position as he was the only person on the planet who could get this collection of players to perform at 110 % ? Why buy that type of player if you are going to leave then, he knew as you do then that as soon as he left we were in trouble ? I said that if he stayed we would have been in the same position, I see nothing to change my mind on that.

We currently have no team.

It's what he left us, no red shoes though apparently.

[markavfc40]

There's a huge difference between writing a season off due to a mangerial departure and staring relegation in the face.

Just because MON did a disservice doesn't mean Houllier isn't doing a flat out rubbish job that no transfer window is likely to rectify.

The idea that this is mostly MON's fault is so ludicrous it blows my mind. Houllier's accrued 14 points from a possible 42, a side which was previously one of the best defensive outfits in the Premiership has conceded about 23 goals in that time and only managed to score 13. But, of course, it's MON's fault because the players are all rubbish really and Houllier needs to bring in his own men.

You guys can't have it both ways - we had a strong squad last year which is largely intact now. That side finished 6th and gave us two excellent cup runs. The same side this year is totally underperforming. People can harp about injuries but we've had strong enough players to produce better than the rubbish we're seeing. Yet now, all of a sudden, these players are rubbish and, actually, have always been rubbish and it's all the fault of some guy who hasn't been here in half a year.

What next? Nazi's at fault for global warming because of their war effort in the 40's? Or maybe the recession is actually the fault of King Henry

VII feudel based economic policy? Jesus wept...

Good post mate. A few others should read it and take note.

One small fault though. Houllier as taken 13 points, not 14, from a possible 42. More incompetent than you gave him credit for.

[SwanVsDalton]

Totally 100 % disagree, Heskey, Warnock, Beye, Coker, Dunne, Collins, Freidal just as a few examples. I am struggling to think of 12 or 13 teams these would all walk into, would Holloway have them considering how well they are doing for example, I think not. they would struggle to get into a chmionship side IMO

It's what he left us, no red shoes though apparently.

You're quite obviously mistaking 'out of form' with bad players. The idea half of those on your list are Championship quality (internationals like Dunne, Friedel, Warnock and Collins) is totally ludicrous.

We have a strong enough side to be doing much better than 13 points from 42. Same players are the tail end of last year - when MON was supposedly doing rubbish - got 23 points from 42. And since MON was supposedly such a 'rubbish' manager, they must have been doing something right.

[Big_John_10]

as he was the only person on the planet who could get this collection of players to perform at 110 %

What a load of shit.

Had a transfer window in 2 months were he paid huge money for Defoe, Palacios and Keane.

Houllier never had a window

Redknapp was in charge for 17 games before he had a chance to sign any player and he won 9 of those 17 games.

Its just bollocks really that 5 months after hes gone MON is still being blamed for results like yesterday.

A good manager would have come in and done something by now.

Worst goal difference in the league and in a relegation fight.

[SwanVsDalton]

Good post mate. A few others should read it and take note.

One small fault though. Houllier as taken 13 points, not 14, from a possible 42. More incompetent than you gave him credit for.

Many apologies, I'll fix that in the edit! Obviously my anger was clouding my counting ability...

[dudevillaisnice]

The idea that this is mostly MON's fault is so ludicrous it blows my mind.

I wouldn't say its mostly MON's fault.. but he has take some fault from the situation, so do the board and the players and of course the current manager.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Totally 100 % disagree, Heskey, Warnock, Beye, Coker, Dunne, Collins, Freidal just as a few examples. I am struggling to think of 12 or 13 teams these would all walk into, would Holloway have them considering how well they are doing for example, I think not. they would struggle to get into a chmionship side IMO

It's what he left us, no red shoes though apparently.

You're quite obviously mistaking 'out of form' with bad players. The idea half of those on your list are Championship quality (internationals like Dunne, Friedel, Warnock and Collins) is totally ludicrous.

We have a strong enough side to be doing much better than 14 points from 42. Same players are the tail end of last year - when MON was supposedly doing rubbish - got 23 points from 42. And since MON was supposedly such a 'rubbish' manager, they must have been doing something right.

Fair enough, I was replying to someone who said they would walk into over half the premiership teams so yeah the Champ example was a step to far. They wouldn't get into half the teams in the Prem though, no chance. We will see how valuable and talented they are when they are shipped out, the internationals you mention that are so brilliant will get us how much ? 40,60,120 M between them if sold tomorrow ? What shall we do after the sales, buy a new ground or Garath Bale or maybe even both.

If the squad is so bursting with quality just trying to get out, why did he leave. He left because he did not fancy a relegation scrap, simple as that really.

Or not quite that international ? Robbie Savage was an international, means **** all in my world.

[SwanVsDalton]

The idea that this is mostly MON's fault is so ludicrous it blows my mind.

I wouldn't say its mostly MON's fault.. but he has take some fault from the situation, so do the board and the players and of course the current manager.

Obviously some of it can be but I think people should get real - that was six months ago and that's a long time in football.

[Big_John_10]

If the squad is so bursting with quality just trying to get out, why did he leave. He left because he did not fancy a relegation scrap, simple as that really.

You think MON left because he thought the squad that had just delivered our best points total in years would be in a relegation fight? What a joke?

No doubt MON thought without investment we'd drop but to think he believed we'd be in a relegation fight is laughable, milner is good but he's not that good.

[SwanVsDalton]

Fair enough, I was replying to someone who said they would walk into over half the premiership teams so yeah the Champ example was a step to far. They wouldn't get into half the teams in the Prem though, no chance. We will see how valuable and talented they are when they are shipped out, the internationals you mention that are so brilliant will get us how much ? 40,60,120 M between them if sold tomorrow ? What shall we do after the sales, buy a new ground or Garath Bale or maybe even both.

If the squad is so bursting with quality just trying to get out, why did he leave. He left because he did not fancy a relegation scrap, simple as that really.

Or not quite that international ? Robbie Savage was an international, means **** all in my world.

Since when do teams automatically drop from 6th to relegation battle? Is MON that much of a psychic? That's nonsensical thinking and irrelevent anyway - why he left doesn't matter. He did and he left us a decent squad - not brilliant, but by no means as terrible as you make out. Unfortunately the man who's been installed as manager is making them look pretty terrible.

Bottom line - nearly all the players are underperforming massively. We know they're not nearly as bad as they're playing. And that's GH's fault and problem, not MON's.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

If the squad is so bursting with quality just trying to get out, why did he leave. He left because he did not fancy a relegation scrap, simple as that really.

You think MON left because he thought the squad that had just delivered our best points total in years would be in a relegation fight? What a joke?

No doubt MON thought without investment we'd drop but to think he believed we'd be in a relegation fight is laughable, milner is good but he's not that good.

If we are not in a relegation fight where are we, in my original post i said it would be a bitter pill for some people to swallow. Have you tried water or putting it in a biscuit or something ?

Sleepwalking into the championship and some people don't even care, now that's not a joke that's heartbreaking.

[Big_John_10]

If the squad is so bursting with quality just trying to get out, why did he leave. He left because he did not fancy a relegation scrap, simple as that really.

You think MON left because he thought the squad that had just delivered our best points total in years would be in a relegation fight? What a joke?

No doubt MON thought without investment we'd drop but to think he believed we'd be in a relegation fight is laughable, milner is good but he's not that good.

If we are not in a relegation fight where are we, in my original post i said it would be a bitter pill for some people to swallow. Have you tried water or putting it in a biscuit or something ?

Sleepwalking into the championship and some people don't even care, now that's not a joke that's heartbreaking.

we're in a relegation fight because of the shit manager currently running the show.

Do you watch football? Since when do teams go from 6th to relegation fight just because they lose 1 player? Its ridiculous to think MON believed this is where we'd be.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Mon bottled a challenge but he certainly didn't leave because he knew we'd be in a relegation fight, he left because he knew we wouldn't get into the top 4 anytime soon and I don't think he could be bothered for a re-building job. Especially given his age.

He left us in the shit with that amount of time left until the season started but everyone has to take the blame for some bad decisions. Ex manager, manager, chairman, players.