Who do you believe is at fault for this situation

[darrenm]

He did and he left us a decent squad - not brilliant, but by no means as terrible as you make out. Unfortunately the man who's been installed as manager is making them look pretty terrible.

Bottom line - nearly all the players are underperforming massively. We know they're not nearly as bad as they're playing. And that's GH's fault and problem, not MON's.

Exactly. Pretty much all of these players were top players most of the time over the past few seasons:

Friedel - ex-USA no.1 keeper. Top keeper whilst at Blackburn and very solid for the last 2 seasons for us.

Luke Young - The campaign to get him playing for England after he turned them down was on for most of last season. Boro fans really didn't want to lose 'Mr Consistent' and MON was being derided for not signing him from Spurs, instead getting him from Boro for £2m extra a season later.

James Collins - Wales international CB who was our top defender last season. Not cheap from West Ham and rated very highly by their fans.

Richard Dunne - Ireland international very experienced defender, highly rated by their fans, but pushed out of City by Garry Crook.

Stephen Warnock - Outside of Bentley, the one player everyone wanted from Blackburn. ran the show against us a few times and was the stand-out player, picking up England caps before he came to us, rated by Capello as 2nd choice England LB, in front of Baines.

Stuart Downing - Harry tried to sign him. England international who was Boro's best player for years, still better than Adam Johnson and excellent again this season.

Stiliyan Petrov - Bulgarian international captain. Goes up against the best midfields in the world and competes. Player of the season 2 years ago and one of the consistent best performers of MON's reign. Outplayed England's CM in the friendly last year.

Ashley Young - Do I need to say anything?

Gabby Agbonlahor - Always on the verge of an England call-up. Always dangerous when not injured. For years we've been saying he should be no.2 behind Rooney.

Heskey - Vastly experienced CF for England, highly rated by everyone, including Fabio Capello.

Then he bought Milner for £12M, who got pulled into the City black hole along with Barry, who MON got playing for England (along with Milner of course)

So yeah, I'd say most of our first team would walk into half of the teams in the PL. They don't suddenly become shit overnight so something else is going on.

[Big_John_10]

They don't suddenly become shit overnight

Some actually believe this though.

[dudevillaisnice]

They don't become shit overnight but some have been shit for a while and there is no denying it like Warnock and Dunne isn't helping himself with his weight since the start of the season and I don't want to hear "oh its the managers/fitness coach job to look after his weight" ah bollocks he isnt five/six that he has to be told what to eat and what not to eat.

[QuintonK6]

A combination of all 4 for me.

[CBGB]

MON's departure had an affect, but you can't keep blaming everything on him.

At some point you have to look at the current situation.

Houllier is making a difficult job look impossible.

[Straygoat]

Friedel - ex-USA no.1 keeper. Top keeper whilst at Blackburn and very solid for the last 2 seasons for us.

The warning signs were starting to show towards the end of last season. Unfortunately, age is catching up with him. He is still a decent number 1, but on a downward curve now.

Luke Young - The campaign to get him playing for England after he turned them down was on for most of last season. Boro fans really didn't want to lose 'Mr Consistent' and MON was being derided for not signing him from Spurs, instead getting him from Boro for £2m extra a season later.

Not sure what has happened with Young, but his form has been erratic to say the least.

James Collins - Wales international CB who was our top defender last season. Not cheap from West Ham and rated very highly by their fans.

Not at his best and suffering from lightweight midfield right in front of him.

Richard Dunne - Ireland international very experienced defender, highly rated by their fans, but pushed out of City by Garry Crook.

Shocking. Hasn't looked fit or sharp all season. You've got to question his professionalism when he looks like he's been on the wedding cake a day diet.

Stephen Warnock - Outside of Bentley, the one player everyone wanted from Blackburn. ran the show against us a few times and was the stand-out player, picking up England caps before he came to us, rated by Capello as 2nd choice England LB, in front of Baines.

Now Warnock is one player I think just doesn't want to play for Houllier for whatever reason.

Stuart Downing - Harry tried to sign him. England international who was Boro's best player for years, still better than Adam Johnson and excellent again this season.

I'd swap him for Johnson any day of the week. Has done well this year though.

Stiliyan Petrov - Bulgarian international captain. Goes up against the best midfields in the world and competes. Player of the season 2 years ago and one of the consistent best performers of MON's reign. Outplayed England's CM in the friendly last year.

You what? Outplayed? Not in the game I saw. Far too pedestrian.

Ashley Young - Do I need to say anything?

No, he is class. But the doubts over his future must be affecting him, even though he's been playing quite well.

Gabby Agbonlahor - Always on the verge of an England call-up. Always dangerous when not injured. For years we've been saying he should be no.2 behind Rooney.

Missed most of pre-season. Hard to get back to peak form after that.

So yeah, I'd say most of our first team would walk into half of the teams in the PL. They don't suddenly become shit overnight so something else is going on.

When you consider all of the above, do you really think they'd 'walk' into other teams? No manager would put up with Dunne's weight or attitude, Warnock's apparent disinterest, or Young's yo-yo form. Most teams have a keeper as good as Friedel if not better and I don't think Petrov would get in most teams' midfield either.

[AstonMartin82]

Personally I think we should stop living in the past. The 50% who have voted for O'Neill would nearly all vote for Houllier. I think we should be looking into the future rather than the past right now and I think we will all find that Houllier will not / should not be in our future.

[redrum]

1) Lerner - his lack of ambition paved way for O'Neill's departure.

- he signed the useless frog Houllier

2) Houllier - completely useless

3) O'Neill - he left us in the shit, although I dont hold it against him. I agree with him. He wanted to turn the club into a top club. This was not Lerner's top priority.

4) The players - some have been fairly crap lately. But who'd want to be a club with a useless manager and a complete lack of ambition.I don't blame them for not wanting to play for Villa.

All in all, everything lies at the feet of the owner. His presumed great knowledge of football after a few years in charged forced a top manager, he signed a manager to replace him who was never going to be the solution. The players as a result dont want to play with a club who have no ambition and are managed by a moron.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

1) Lerner - his lack of ambition paved way for O'Neill's departure.

- he signed the useless frog Houllier

2) Houllier - completely useless

3) O'Neill - he left us in the shit, although I dont hold it against him. I agree with him. He wanted to turn the club into a top club. This was not Lerner's top priority.

4) The players - some have been fairly crap lately. But who'd want to be a club with a useless manager and a complete lack of ambition.I don't blame them for not wanting to play for Villa.

All in all, everything lies at the feet of the owner. His presumed great knowledge of football after a few years in charged forced a top manager, he signed a manager to replace him who was never going to be the solution. The players as a result dont want to play with a club who have no ambition and are managed by a moron.

Yes it is. There are several ways of going about it though. Spending money you don't have isn't a clever one.

[Chindie]

I think it's Lerners top priority.

I also think it's one even he, today, would file firmly under 'Dreams'.

Even way back at the start he had to know it'd take a fair whack of money and luck to do.

Now we're trying to do it on luck alone, and luck doesn't carry much of a punch in these things, only sometimes landing the knock out blow that money has softened the target up for.

[paulanddonya]

I started this topic and I have purposely left my opinion until now to judge what others thought.

I personally voted for Lerner / the board.

Over the past six months the Villa, on and off the pitch has been a catastrophe - whether that be shirts / team / manager walking / Krulak being in press having public slanging matches / lack of investment / selling best players / pulling out of Olympic bid for next year quaoting ground improvements (where are they then - they would have to take place in 6 months to have affected the olympics ?)

and many more that other people could bring up.

Now, go back three or four years and remember what Browns fans were saying "He did the same to us - came in , blaze o glory, then shut up shop, bought the Villa and now spends all his money on them"

And guess what has happened in the last 6 months - the Browns have started to spend - and we haven't !

The guy clearly cannot afford to run both , or give his time to both. You saw what happened with Gillett and Hicks when they tried to run both.

All I will say, can you imagine what the hell would have been going on down Villa Park now if Ellis was in charge over this - the mind boggles.

I HATED O'Neill - even when he was manager, I never warmed to him. But for him, and ALL his backroom team to walk out 5 days before the season - there HAS to be a reason no matter what spin Mr Krulak wants to put on it.

Me

1. Lerner

2. Players - I just think they won't give their all for GH

3. MON - Even Mourinho would have struggled with the chaos he left behind

4. GH - strage decisions yes - but as said, I don't think even the best ever could have sorted this, that quickly

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

I think it's Lerners top priority.

I also think it's one even he, today, would file firmly under 'Dreams'.

Even way back at the start he had to know it'd take a fair whack of money and luck to do.

Now we're trying to do it on luck alone, and luck doesn't carry much of a punch in these things, only sometimes landing the knock out blow that money has softened the target up for.

I think we'll spend again. I just think we are taking a different route and a route we have to take.

[Chindie]

We've been having to take a different route from day one - we didn't have the sheer financial brute force to get us very far, we never had that. It took us to 6th and even then it wasn't quite enough to really cement us there, because we had to constantly spread that cash thinly as we tried to evolve. We never got the point we had a solid base to add diamonds to. We almost did, and then we started to wither the foundations and ended the investment.

[MR.Smalljob]

It's understandable Randy wouldn't waste more money on MON's signings.

the real test comes now.

and 37% can't be wrong :-)

[paulanddonya]

AVFC- come on, be real.

Even if Lerner turned round now and said "Go on, I will bankroll you so you can spend 200m on your own squad.

Who the hell of any salt is going to join a club who could be bottom of the league on Sunday !

Sorry AVFC - but its an old saying "buy from a position of strength"

I had this arguament with Krulak and got called disrespectful. Our chance has GONE. We had two chances at this- we needed a top class goalscorer which would have cost about 15m to put us champions league - we bought Heskey

I said then - that decision cost us at lesat 5 yrs !

Then, somehow, against all odds after selling our best player - we managed to stay in the top 6 (mainly down to crap seasons by Liverpool and Everton - but we did it none-the less) - and we STILL didn't invest.

Not only that - but we AGAIN sold our best player.

Thats it - Finished , Finite , gone, disappeared !

We have had our time, Lerner did what Ellis did time after time, got so far, and then wouldn't go that little bit more to finish it.

10yrs ago - John Gregory put the Villa top of the league, he wanted juninho - we didn't get him. It took us 7 yrs to get anywhere near that position again (having nearly been relegated twice) and we did EXACTLY the same thing again.

He has missed the boat , and he will have to spend another 140m just to get us back into Top 6 contention - and he won't even do half of that.

If you think otherwise - you are niave !

[peterms]

I had this arguament with Krulak and got called disrespectful.

As I saw it, the issue was not the content of your views, but they way you expressed them. Views are not inherently disrespectful. How they are expressed, can be.

In saying that, I'm not coming from the school of thought that because Krulak attained a certain rank in the armed forces or holds a directorship, he should be fawned on; he deserves no more nor less respect than anyone else. I think the criticism of your posts was that they were expressed poorly and disrespectfully, quite apart from whatever disagreement people had with the content.

But that's a bit off topic - sorry, everyone.

[Neil]

O'Neil is mostly to blaime for the situation we find ourselves in now, he took a big fat poo from a great height right on our club.

Though since his departure our players / new manager havnt done us any favours in making things better as yet. I thought I saw signs how things had potential to improve but right now I'm a little dumbfounded.

[claret75]

Friedel - ex-USA no.1 keeper. Top keeper whilst at Blackburn and very solid for the last 2 seasons for us.

The warning signs were starting to show towards the end of last season. Unfortunately, age is catching up with him. He is still a decent number 1, but on a downward curve now.

Luke Young - The campaign to get him playing for England after he turned them down was on for most of last season. Boro fans really didn't want to lose 'Mr Consistent' and MON was being derided for not signing him from Spurs, instead getting him from Boro for £2m extra a season later.

Not sure what has happened with Young, but his form has been erratic to say the least.

James Collins - Wales international CB who was our top defender last season. Not cheap from West Ham and rated very highly by their fans.

Not at his best and suffering from lightweight midfield right in front of him.

Richard Dunne - Ireland international very experienced defender, highly rated by their fans, but pushed out of City by Garry Crook.

Shocking. Hasn't looked fit or sharp all season. You've got to question his professionalism when he looks like he's been on the wedding cake a day diet.

Stephen Warnock - Outside of Bentley, the one player everyone wanted from Blackburn. ran the show against us a few times and was the stand-out player, picking up England caps before he came to us, rated by Capello as 2nd choice England LB, in front of Baines.

Now Warnock is one player I think just doesn't want to play for Houllier for whatever reason.

Stuart Downing - Harry tried to sign him. England international who was Boro's best player for years, still better than Adam Johnson and excellent again this season.

I'd swap him for Johnson any day of the week. Has done well this year though.

Stiliyan Petrov - Bulgarian international captain. Goes up against the best midfields in the world and competes. Player of the season 2 years ago and one of the consistent best performers of MON's reign. Outplayed England's CM in the friendly last year.

You what? Outplayed? Not in the game I saw. Far too pedestrian.

Ashley Young - Do I need to say anything?

No, he is class. But the doubts over his future must be affecting him, even though he's been playing quite well.

Gabby Agbonlahor - Always on the verge of an England call-up. Always dangerous when not injured. For years we've been saying he should be no.2 behind Rooney.

Missed most of pre-season. Hard to get back to peak form after that.

So yeah, I'd say most of our first team would walk into half of the teams in the PL. They don't suddenly become shit overnight so something else is going on.

When you consider all of the above, do you really think they'd 'walk' into other teams? No manager would put up with Dunne's weight or attitude, Warnock's apparent disinterest, or Young's yo-yo form. Most teams have a keeper as good as Friedel if not better and I don't think Petrov would get in most teams' midfield either.

You beat me to it. Agree with most of this. How GH is getting stick for the form of Warnock and Dunne is beyond me, they've been terrrible all season and Warnock was poor towards the end of last season also. Collins has struggled because of Dunne's form IMO.

Friedel is only going one way and I think the same can be said of Luke Young.

Gabby's been injured, Petrov's been injured.

Downing and Ashley Young have been OK.

Heskey started brilliantly under GH till he got injured.

[dudevillaisnice]

You've got to question his professionalism when he looks like he's been on the wedding cake a day diet.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

We've been having to take a different route from day one - we didn't have the sheer financial brute force to get us very far, we never had that. It took us to 6th and even then it wasn't quite enough to really cement us there, because we had to constantly spread that cash thinly as we tried to evolve. We never got the point we had a solid base to add diamonds to. We almost did, and then we started to wither the foundations and ended the investment.

Actually, it's debatable. Had Man City not come along, I'm not sure we would of stopped the spending sort of so abruptly.

In my opinion, spending millions right now is just ultimately pointless. That doesn't mean, we should somehow soon turn into a bottom 5/6 club but I think looking to reduce the wage bill, not so much spending but wage bill right now and investing in younger players is the way forward. Even if we spent £30 million next 3 years, I'm not even sure we'd break the top 4 so just don't really see the point of doing it, especially when I'm not even sure the owners could do it.

I suppose being first years in football, they can only learn from mistakes and make better decisions in the future.