Who do you believe is at fault for this situation

[Seat68]

Some one is spreading dissent. John Carew, J'accuse!

[Hanky]

I've come to the conclusion we need to act now or after the Chelsea game. Either give Houllier the money to spend and back him or get rid of him and start again. I'd probably go for the second option but we seem to be in limbo at the moment and I think the board are playing a dangerous waiting game.

[markavfc40]

But I think our form since his departure has maybe just emphasised how well he was doing with the players at his disposal.

There were a couple of times last year when commentators such as Gray & Redknapp were saying how we were over-achieving with the group of players and that this was down to O'neill. We all laughed, but they were arguably right.

No doubt that Houllier has made O'Neill look a far better manager than he probably is.

Back on topic I do think we need to get over this blaming O'Neill for what is happening now.

He contributed to what has happened but it would be far better if people moved on and accepted that those now at the club need to take responsibility for what is happening now and show some leadership.

It actually doesn't really matter though if the fans don't like him and therefore use him as a scape goat. Whats far more worrying is that I sense some at the club blame him and it is very dangerous passing responsibility for the here and now on to someone who can do **** all about it and hasn't been able to all season.

[dudevillaisnice]

Back on topic I do think we need to get over this blaming O'Neill for what is happening now.

He contributed to what has happened but it would be far better if people moved on and accepted that those now at the club need to take responsibility for what is happening now and show some leadership.

So we shouldn't mention his name now because it was 6 months ago? Sorry as much as i thought MON was a good manager he'll continue to get the blame and so will the board and the current manager. If we don't spend in January then I'll blame the board way more then i do the rest.

[Shillzz]

Cant agree with continuing to blame Oneill for our troubles.

It sounds a bit like when 2 people divorce and they continue to bitch for some time after.

Oneill left us with a good squad and believe it or not, time to replace Milner. Oneill is in no way responsible for the tactics that have turned our defense from one of the best to one of the worst in the premiership, nor is he responsible for the collapse in motivation throughout the squad.

[UpTheVilla26]

You can't blame O'Neill for what is happening.

Granted, he made certain mistakes and maybe had a bit of luck with injuries etc... but watching Villa under O'Neill, I never once felt like they didn't care or were not trying.

Houllier took over a decent squad and has proceeded to make them serve up the toss we are witnessing this season.

[Hughes]

I cannot believe why so few points at the players. Sure, MON's actions right before the season started was unforgiveable (at least for me). Sure, GH has been a mess and I think the best thing would be for him to go now rather than later. BUT, the players must take most of the blame. Not wanting to play for a manager? Being "on strike"? Seeing some of the rumours about how some of them just do not give a shit (see for example one of the last post on Ianrobo's site), I cannot help thinking what the hell is going on. They are fooking employees after all, if they don't accept or adhere to the rules of the boss then get them the **** out of my club. If the boss cannot deliver results, he will have to go as well. This shit about player power is probably a reality but it is eating me up. Seriously, these players need to grow the hell up and take responsibility for shit performances.

[dudevillaisnice]

I cannot believe why so few points at the players. Sure, MON's actions right before the season started was unforgiveable (at least for me). Sure, GH has been a mess and I think the best thing would be for him to go now rather than later. BUT, the players must take most of the blame. Not wanting to play for a manager? Being "on strike"? Seeing some of the rumours about how some of them just do not give a shit (see for example one of the last post on Ianrobo's site), I cannot help thinking what the hell is going on. They are fooking employees after all, if they don't accept or adhere to the rules of the boss then get them the **** out of my club. If the boss cannot deliver results, he will have to go as well. This shit about player power is probably a reality but it is eating me up. Seriously, these players need to grow the hell up and take responsibility for shit performances.

Top post.

[Hanky]

I cannot believe why so few points at the players. Sure, MON's actions right before the season started was unforgiveable (at least for me). Sure, GH has been a mess and I think the best thing would be for him to go now rather than later. BUT, the players must take most of the blame. Not wanting to play for a manager? Being "on strike"? Seeing some of the rumours about how some of them just do not give a shit (see for example one of the last post on Ianrobo's site), I cannot help thinking what the hell is going on. They are fooking employees after all, if they don't accept or adhere to the rules of the boss then get them the **** out of my club. If the boss cannot deliver results, he will have to go as well. This shit about player power is probably a reality but it is eating me up. Seriously, these players need to grow the hell up and take responsibility for shit performances.

Agree. Although they shouldn't be doing this under any manager whether they like it or not, I think Houllier is the problem and will continue to be the problem until he leaves.

[Villarocker]

The players attitudes are obviously very worrying but I do sympathise with some of the issues that have been raised recently. If it is true that Dunne was playing with injury and then questioned the training methods for the defence then surely he has a right to do that? It's obvious that the defence has massive problems this season and yet last season we looked really solid. Is that down to the players or the coaching they are getting? You can't make players at the wrong end of their careers become a different player over night. They are rugged, clear the danger type centre backs. They are not stylish, play the ball around types that they have on the continent.

Also, don't we have the same fitness coach that was at the World Cup during the French fiasco? Surely that says something in its own right. Petrov was bemoaning the fitness training earlier in the season, when he said that the next step up from this was death! Surely all of the injuries cannot be down to pure bad luck or coincidence? There is also the fact of moving the players closer to the club. I don't know about the rest of you but I couldn't give a toss if they lived on the moon as long as they play their hearts out when it comes around to kick-off on match day.

I also think that the players will feel cheated. They were sold a vision of where the club was supposed to be going. Imagine joining a club that had 2 x 6th place finishes and being told of the ambition of getting into the Champions League, only to find that the manager then has a sell-to-buy policy and then has to offload the clubs best player to one of our biggest rivals for a top 4 place! Then the manager leaves you all to it and decides that being unemployed is a better option than leading you lot into battle again. He and the players know that reaching the CL is just impossible without further investment and that baby lies with the owner.

All these things add up and will inevitably lead to an unhappy atmosphere around the camp so I personally have sympathy for the players. OK, I know they have a big salary to ease those nasty little surprises but doesn't questioning the tactis and training methods show that they do actually care? Sometimes it is better to make the man who makes these decisions look a fool than it is to try your best and still come up short.

I think it is clear for all to see that we will not have enough funds to bring in enough players to replace the troublemakers so really it is going to be a case of play them and hope for the best from them. If the training methods don't change, and you would have to think that as unlikely, we have to hope for a change of heart from the players. Given the fact most are facing the axe anyway, why would they give their all? Surely the best way out of this is to change the management set up and bring in someone who can get the best out of the players from now until the end of the season?