Who do you believe is at fault for this situation

[steven]

dirk1978 spot on. I can't see how MON can be blamed for the team getting worse.

Last season we had one if not the strongest back 4 up and down the country. Now with the same team we struggle to keep a clean sheet.

MON was loyal to us, until we stabbed him in the back. Never slagged the team even when we played at our worst. Not a bad word spoken even when he left. He had the opportunity to have his own cheap dig in a press release/statement, but nothing...remained a true gentleman keeping his loyalty and dignity.

As a fan you can't deny under MON we was climbing. From the likes of seeing Ridgewell, Lee Hendry, Mark Delaney, Jay Lloyd Samuel, Thomas Sørensen and Gavin McCann week in week out.

We became a fresh looking squad, the ground, the kits, sponsors all started to look up. Not taking anything away from RL, he has been a massive part to the 5 year master plan. But it was the football we played that made us exciting...looking back to Youngs late winner against Everton. That goal had MON all over it. The fans now known as a 12th man across the country. Seeing Wembeley carpeted in claret and blue.

It was all a big dream...we are back to reality, we have even replaced our out dated Patrik Berger for a new spring chicken...Pires.

MON done more in a month than this French Terry Wogan we have as a manager. I wonder if the money we got for Milner balances the books as we clutch on to the premier league.

MON loyal, us stabbing him in the back? lol the guy quit the first time he didnt get his own way, at a time designed to cause maximum disruption.

yeah the first couple of season under MON were good- exciting counter attacking football, we looked like we were on the up. but then teams got wise-play tight and we had nothing. the football became crap. we could get wins but that was because we had players like ash, gabby, milner getting goals out of nothing.

the 08/09 season we were 3rd at xmas. a perfect time to get 1 key player who can ensure we get 4th. MON decides the one key player is heskey (and arsenal go and get arshavin). a few months later after MON decides to chuck away europe we bottle it against Stoke and its all down hill. the first 11 which has been run into the ground burn out and we somehow finish 6th, behind everton who were miles behind only a few months earlier.

after that season MON goes to Randy, i need to improve the squad so we dont burn out and fall short next year. Randy gives him the funds he wants. that season we throw away europe again, and MON again runs the 1st 11 into the ground. while this is happening players on large wages, who he wanted are not being played and sitting on the bench not contributing.

Randy quite rightly questions MON when again in the summer he wants large funds, MON gets the huff and walks. and as Celtic and Leicester fans warned he left us with lots of aging, average players on large wages.

MON did a lot of good, but in his 4 seasons he spent a lot and yet what have we got to show? we bottled 4th from an unbelievably good position, im pretty sure that no team before had been top 3 at xmas and failed to get champs league. we threw away europe every year. and 1 final and semi final in which we lost isnt very good for domestic cup competitions.

he left us some very good young players, but he left us some right shite and, expensive shite at that.

of course, Houllier takes a lot of responsibility, any manager should be able to get our team higher than they are at the moment. But MON doesnt get a free pass at all

I find it hard to understand how somebody who hasn't had any influance on the squad for the whole of the season can be blamed.

Typical humble Villa fans, I bet you wasn't saying this whilst waving your flag a Wembely.

I played his best players week in and out. The reason for this is because when you stick a team of kids outs to play, you lose, as proven this season and in europe.

Europe is a lot of games to play with a small squad and the money you get is pointless, we wanted Champions League and finishing 4th was our only way.

Be greatful for finishing 6th, because that's a million miles away from where we are heading. Lets see how many Villa players make the next England squad.

[dudevillaisnice]

I find it hard to understand how somebody who hasn't had any influance on the squad for the whole of the season can be blamed.

Typical humble Villa fans, I bet you wasn't saying this whilst waving your flag a Wembely.

I played his best players week in and out. The reason for this is because when you stick a team of kids outs to play, you lose, as proven this season and in europe.

Europe is a lot of games to play with a small squad and the money you get is pointless, we wanted Champions League and finishing 4th was our only way.

Be greatful for finishing 6th, because that's a million miles away from where we are heading. Lets see how many Villa players make the next England squad.

So we should've sold the kids off and not risk playing them? there is a reason we keep playing kids. We could barely get passed the first stage of europa league let alone being ready for CL.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

AVFC- come on, be real.

Even if Lerner turned round now and said "Go on, I will bankroll you so you can spend 200m on your own squad.

Who the hell of any salt is going to join a club who could be bottom of the league on Sunday !

Sorry AVFC - but its an old saying "buy from a position of strength"

I had this arguament with Krulak and got called disrespectful. Our chance has GONE. We had two chances at this- we needed a top class goalscorer which would have cost about 15m to put us champions league - we bought Heskey

I said then - that decision cost us at lesat 5 yrs !

Then, somehow, against all odds after selling our best player - we managed to stay in the top 6 (mainly down to crap seasons by Liverpool and Everton - but we did it none-the less) - and we STILL didn't invest.

Not only that - but we AGAIN sold our best player.

Thats it - Finished , Finite , gone, disappeared !

We have had our time, Lerner did what Ellis did time after time, got so far, and then wouldn't go that little bit more to finish it.

10yrs ago - John Gregory put the Villa top of the league, he wanted juninho - we didn't get him. It took us 7 yrs to get anywhere near that position again (having nearly been relegated twice) and we did EXACTLY the same thing again.

He has missed the boat , and he will have to spend another 140m just to get us back into Top 6 contention - and he won't even do half of that.

If you think otherwise - you are niave !

Because as someone says, your disrespectful in the way you express your comments, as if these owners have done absolute **** all for this club. When they've done alot.

When we needed a £15 million goalscorer and signed Heskey? That was O'NEILL'S DECISION. Do you want Randy to tell O'Neill who to sign?

We also sold Barry, we could do nothing about it? What realistically are you going to do tell him? We spent £40 million the previous season and another £25 million the season we sold Barry? so we spent money, we showed we were willing to spend but he wanted to go.

AGAIN, we spent £5 million on Collins, £6 mil on Dunne, £8 mil Delph, £8 mil on Warnock, £12 Million on Downing.

We then finished with 65 points, our highest points total, nothing to do with Liverpool, Everton.

£140 million just to be in top 6 contention?

Are you absolutely barmy? We finished 6th last year and sold Milner. Had O'Neill not left and we'd of spent absolutely **** all, we'd of still been at least competing in the top 6, We'd definitely be finishing top 8 for sure.

£140 million!? We're a good manager and probably 1/2 players away from being in that top 6 again?

Who the **** are these teams that are £140 million in front?

I know you mentioned Bolton and Sunderland in other threads.

OUR SQUAD IS WORTH MORE!!! than both of them, so why the **** do we need £140 million to simply try and get above them? Barmy.

[cbr600rr]

i tilting blame to randy,4 years in a 5 year project then pulled the plug so mon walked. cashing in on our best players every season FACT, (will happen again with ash).

[GaztonVilla]

You've got to question his professionalism when he looks like he's been on the wedding cake a day diet.

I have to step in here and defend him a bit.

Rich injured his knee in training before the Rep of Ireland friendly vs Argentina in the week before the PL kicked off. It never fully recovered but he continued to play regularly, at the request of management, with the aid of painkilling injections. He has NOT been training fully, taking part in approx 50% of sessions.

He has been sitting out the fitness based elements of the training, in order to allow his knee to settle down. It has been badly swollen after every game he's played in. The frustration he was feeling was that there was too much focus on fitness training (which he was unable to take part in) without any sufficient emphasis on the technical/tactical part of the game, specifically defending.

My understanding is that Rich was only able to take part in certain amounts of 8-a-side matches in training where the emphasis was always on ball retention and passing. He was frustrated that, when he was taking part in training, there was no training on the defending of set pieces or other defensive tactics.

He was frustrated that he was agreeing to play in games, to the detriment of his injury, but felt he and his defensive colleagues were not being properly prepared for those games. If he was going to play with an injury, he felt, there should be at least some preparation which would make them best able to defend not just pass the ball along the back line.

So, to sum up, he can't train to improve his fitness because of his injury. He's playing with an injury in a defensive unit which is ill prepared. He felt he was going into the game with a double handicap - poor fitness and poor technical preparation.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

i tilting blame to randy,4 years in a 5 year project then pulled the plug so mon walked. cashing in on our best players every season FACT, (will happen again with ash).

Didn't sell our best player in 06/07, 07/08, 08/09.

Only best player we've sold is Milner and that's because he wanted to go a club who will probably win the league in 3 years and be playing Champions League football next year aswell as getting double wages. Didn't Tevez reject United for City? didn't, Adebayor and Toure leave Arsenal for City. Even the biggest clubs have missed out. Everton lost Lescott. Inter lost Balotelli. Valencia, Silva. Let's be honest here, Man City are a machine that can out bid, out spend and give wages no one else in world football can give.

Anyone who remembers the 08/09 season without having an agenda would have took £12 million for Barry, he was sometimes brilliant but most of the time pretty average, especially when you compare him to the 07/08 where he was absolute magic. 08/09, a couple great games but mostly looked pretty poor in my view and was outshone by Petrov his central midfield partner.

[Big_John_10]

I wonder what the results would be if we were sitting in 6th place and someone started a poll asking who gets the credit?

Would MON get 37% of the vote? Of course he wouldn't.

Would the players get 26%? Of course they wouldn't.

Houllier would be getting most of the credit if we were doing well but because we're not the blame gets taken from him.

[smetrov]

You've got to question his professionalism when he looks like he's been on the wedding cake a day diet.

I have to step in here and defend him a bit.

Rich injured his knee in training before the Rep of Ireland friendly vs Argentina in the week before the PL kicked off. It never fully recovered but he continued to play regularly, at the request of management, with the aid of painkilling injections. He has NOT been training fully, taking part in approx 50% of sessions.

He has been sitting out the fitness based elements of the training, in order to allow his knee to settle down. It has been badly swollen after every game he's played in. The frustration he was feeling was that there was too much focus on fitness training (which he was unable to take part in) without any sufficient emphasis on the technical/tactical part of the game, specifically defending.

My understanding is that Rich was only able to take part in certain amounts of 8-a-side matches in training where the emphasis was always on ball retention and passing. He was frustrated that, when he was taking part in training, there was no training on the defending of set pieces or other defensive tactics.

He was frustrated that he was agreeing to play in games, to the detriment of his injury, but felt he and his defensive colleagues were not being properly prepared for those games. If he was going to play with an injury, he felt, there should be at least some preparation which would make them best able to defend not just pass the ball along the back line.

So, to sum up, he can't train to improve his fitness because of his injury. He's playing with an injury in a defensive unit which is ill prepared. He felt he was going into the game with a double handicap - poor fitness and poor technical preparation.

Must admit practicing free kicks in training seems entirley sensible.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

I wonder what the results would be if we were sitting in 6th place and someone started a poll asking who gets the credit?

Would MON get 37% of the vote? Of course he wouldn't.

Would the players get 26%? Of course they wouldn't.

Houllier would be getting most of the credit if we were doing well but because we not the blame gets taken from him.

(I haven't voted)

Why would Mon get the same amount of vote? I think pretty much all that percentage is the fact he left us at the time he did making it difficult for the club to find a decent replacement because many out the job had founds jobs while managers at clubs had just done all of pre-season and it's unlikely they'd leave so early in the season.

Would the players get 26% of the vote, that's pretty debatable, It could be argued yes. I think players have got this much of a vote is because they aren't performing to the same level as last year, sometimes even effort. Whoever the manager is, you expect effort and being able to do the basics right, this at times seems to have almost deserted them.

[Big_John_10]

I think pretty much all that percentage is the fact he left us at the time he did making it difficult for the club to find a decent replacement because many out the job had founds jobs while managers at clubs had just done all of pre-season and it's unlikely they'd leave so early in the season.

I could understand him being responsible for some early poor results but some still blame him for our last result.

Theres been enough time to get over him going now, redknapp is a perfect example of a new manager not needing the no pre season excuse.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

(just voted for Houllier) Overall he is the worst simply because the job he's done is below the level that's expected.

The Board didn't make a good call in appointing him, HOWEVER....I'd of expected whoever the manager was to at least have more points than this, even with all the problems and tough fixture list, not even as much points, I defend some performances, Spurs away, Fulham, United etc...thought we deserved more but the recent games, Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Spurs just completely out played.

When Houllier was first linked, I said I don't want him here. When he got the job, I was fully for backing him and giving him time. Any negative mind set had completely gone out the window, I thought completely positive and looked at his record and started believing in him, we started quite well under him, at times like the United game, looked as if we were going to really kick on but it's just been downhill from there and even the fair excuses, it's hard to say they can be used at this moment, although injuries still have had it's toll. All in all, he's been poor and deserves most the blame for me. However all have contributed.

[fran_villa]

You've got to question his professionalism when he looks like he's been on the wedding cake a day diet.

I have to step in here and defend him a bit.

Rich injured his knee in training before the Rep of Ireland friendly vs Argentina in the week before the PL kicked off. It never fully recovered but he continued to play regularly, at the request of management, with the aid of painkilling injections. He has NOT been training fully, taking part in approx 50% of sessions.

He has been sitting out the fitness based elements of the training, in order to allow his knee to settle down. It has been badly swollen after every game he's played in. The frustration he was feeling was that there was too much focus on fitness training (which he was unable to take part in) without any sufficient emphasis on the technical/tactical part of the game, specifically defending.

My understanding is that Rich was only able to take part in certain amounts of 8-a-side matches in training where the emphasis was always on ball retention and passing. He was frustrated that, when he was taking part in training, there was no training on the defending of set pieces or other defensive tactics.

He was frustrated that he was agreeing to play in games, to the detriment of his injury, but felt he and his defensive colleagues were not being properly prepared for those games. If he was going to play with an injury, he felt, there should be at least some preparation which would make them best able to defend not just pass the ball along the back line.

So, to sum up, he can't train to improve his fitness because of his injury. He's playing with an injury in a defensive unit which is ill prepared. He felt he was going into the game with a double handicap - poor fitness and poor technical preparation.

no,Dunne is just a fat useless bastard isnt he.its funny that even since Carlos and Collins have been at center back we have still been pure and utter shite..its easy to pick out Dunne because most of the people on this site where just waiting for the day that Dunne had a bad run of form,its kind of funny that all our center backs have not played well..oh but wait,it couldnt be the manager or his coaching staff **** clowns..

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

No one has been waiting for Dunne on this site? Didn't he finish 2nd on our fans player of year?

He's the easiest to pick out because he's been the worst OR has made the most obvious mistakes.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

I could understand him being responsible for some early poor results but some still blame him for our last result.

Theres been enough time to get over him going now, redknapp is a perfect example of a new manager not needing the no pre season excuse.

You gotta give credit to the club PR, though, as more than a third of the people who voted still think MON is the reason for our downfall despite him being away for more than 4 months.

I could understand it if people say he should bear part of the responsibility, he does, however more than all of the people who are still at the club? This is beyond gullible and naive.

Won't be surprised if next season there are quite a lot of people still blaming him for not being able to get back to the upper part of the table, provided we stay up, of course.

That, is one well oiled PR department. Respect.

[fran_villa]

No one has been waiting for Dunne on this site? Didn't he finish 2nd on our fans player of year?

He's the easiest to pick out because he's been the worst OR has made the most obvious mistakes.

im sorry mate,but when Dunne was signed there was a massive amount of people on here sticking the boot in saying he's shit,to fat the the same type of shite thats been spouted now..Collins has been as bad if now worse than Dunne,Carlos has came in and not played any better really.imho its not the defenders fault though,its down to bad management and bad coaching.the whole team as a unit is in bits right now.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Fair enough, I agree the team isn't defending well enough and the tactics clearly aren't working, but Dunne as an individual has been fairly suspect all season, before Houllier arrived and also towards the end of last year, making errors. That's why. Collins and Cuellar both have always been pretty solid apart from well now it seems, but Dunne's individual form has been suspect for a while.

Also, I wouldn't question anyone's opinion if they wanted Dunne here. 07/08 at the beginning, the majority wanted Petrov out the team, didn't like him at all, a season later he was fans player of the season. People will judge on performances.

[Zatman]

No one has been waiting for Dunne on this site? Didn't he finish 2nd on our fans player of year?

He's the easiest to pick out because he's been the worst OR has made the most obvious mistakes.

I agree with Fran.

Their has been a lot of people waiting to say I told you so about Dunne.

Go back to his transfer thread last year and a lot of the same names are criticizing him now

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

No one has been waiting for Dunne on this site? Didn't he finish 2nd on our fans player of year?

He's the easiest to pick out because he's been the worst OR has made the most obvious mistakes.

I agree with Fran.

Their has been a lot of people waiting to say I told you so about Dunne.

Go back to his transfer thread last year and a lot of the same names are criticizing him now

Yes. Becuase he's been shit.

Go to a Petrov thread 07/08 and see how many said he was shit and then go to an 08/09 thread and see the opinions. Or even more recently, a Downing or Heskey thread.

When players play well, people praise them, when they play shit, people criticise.

Look at Carew, when he first signed, everyone wanted him here, after 07/08, 08/09, people wanted him here, praised him, loved him, fans favourite. Now? People want him gone and not playing. Not because they didn't previously like him but just his performances have been terrible.

You won't believe me simply because of your Irish connection and love in, you even said the Sunderland goal weren't Dunne's fault! No one has been waiting to have a go at Dunne, I know I certainly haven't. People on this site have judged players fairly based on performance, that's that. No one has got an agenda.

[Zatman]

Well i guarantee that if we get beaten in next 2 or 3 games badly their will be people on this board starting threads saying Dunne should never have been dropped.

[Stu_The_Villan]

Its MoNs and the playing staffs fault. Simple as that