Who do you believe is at fault for this situation

[darrenm]

Randy for listening to the wrong people.

When MON was in charge, his style, the players he bought, the wages he paid average players were criticised. It was felt from the not-very-well educated that with the players we had, if we had another more tactically astute manager who didn't invite pressure for long periods of the game and made time-wasting substitutions at the end of games where we conceded late on that we would be top-4 and would be able to win trophies. MON, it was thought, was standing in the way of us going further.

My belief is that after the wage bill had gotten so high on players that MON never played, Randy and his advisers decided that he didn't really know what he was doing with transfers, and his training methods and playing style were antiquated so they decided to pull the plug by making a few of the decisions for him with transfers and effectively taking his power away to negotiate contracts himself. As this happened, MON decided his position was untenable and walked. I don't believe it was done out of spite, it was simply unfortunate timing.

Now, anyone with a balanced viewpoint could see that the stakes were simply so high for MON during his 3 years here that to really have a crack at the top 4 it needed significant investment and a lot of financial speculation before reaping the rewards later down the line. Players don't want to come to the Midlands to live or play. Even the North-East is seen as a nicer place to be than Birmingham. Therefore, to even get mediocre players they would have to be paid over the odds wages. I believe this was part of the deal that MON and Randy had when he was first brought to the club, and why I believe the relationship starting breaking down, when Randy starting reneging on the deal. He couldn't afford to take a chance on young players he wanted to bring through, he couldn't afford to lose a single game more than he had to.

MON was entirely a pragmatist. Attractive, free-flowing, passing football was discounted in favour of counter-attacking and wing-play. From my own point of view, these are perfectly acceptable tactics for levelling teams. How many times did you see us match the 'big 4', only to be humbled by relegation fodder the next week? Year upon year we saw progress, but with moneybags City turning cheat-mode on and Spurs suddenly seeing their investments come to fruition I think significant investment was required to make the next step, which is what Randy withdrew from.

The point where it needed a fair bit of money thrown at it to make the next step and continue challenging the outside of the top 4, Randy withdrew, after the general viewpoint of the majority of the fans reinforced his own suspicions.

It was then a valiant attempt to use our main asset of youth, and bring in a youth developer such as Houllier to set us up well for the future, but Houllier is not the pragmatist that MON was, he's an idealist. With the right continental flair players his teams will play beautiful football, but in the meantime we will get some hammerings. If MON was still here in this situation we would have had almost no kids in over these months, but we would be in the top half. Sidwell would have featured a lot more, but we would have had a few more 0-0 draws.

So right now, Houllier is trying to be Arsenal with inexperienced players when more experienced, less skilful players would have been more solid.

Sorry for harping on about MON so much in this, but he really knew what he was doing. Randy lost faith too early, took his support away and now we're suffering the consequences.

[Zatman]

As i said in other thread even if they change manager I hope every senior player except Downing and Heskey are sold as they have been a disgrace.

They are professional footballers. I dont get along with my manager but i still do my **** job the best i can

[Hanky]

Any decent manager could have us playing better than we are now.

Definitely. Players like Albrighton, Downing, Agbonlahor, Cuellar, Petrov, Friedel and the rest are good players and are not at their best at all. There must be a reason for this.

[fran_villa]

A bit of everything isn't it but facts are we are where we are no good looking at whose to blame or ifs buts and **** maybes.

The board made a major **** up appointing Houllier but I honestly don't have too much of a problem with that as shit happens and we all make mistakes. They need to put that mistake right though and do it NOW. Houllier is yesterdays man, doesn't command the respect of the vast majority of the players in my opinion and is the last bloke you'd want managing you in a relegation fight which is exactly what he as led us in to.

Time for the board to act and put Houllier and more importantly us out of our misery.

i agree,good post.

[Big_John_10]

We're in a complete mess and some people are still trying to put the blame on a bloke who has had nothing to do with the club for the last 5 months.

MON's departure was at an awkward time but there has been enough time gone now to sort things out enough so that we shouldn't be down the bottom.

Lerner has to take a lot of the blame, he chose to stop backing a manager who delivered a higher points total each season, MON was trying to move players on and funds still weren't available. I bet Randy wishes he could go back and allow MON to sign 1 or 2 players in the summer now. Also Randy is the one man who should know every financial detail to do with the club, he knew our turnover and he knew what we were spending on wages, he shouldn't have allowed it to get to a point where a sell to buy policy had to be put in place. He then had to make his most important decision as owner of aston villa and he decided houllier was the best man for the job.

Houllier has to also take a lot of the blame, i won't go into detail its clear he's shit.

The players need to take some responsibility but if players could perform on their own there would be no need for any team to have a manager. They've shown that a decent manager can get performances out of them and a shit one can't.

[Big_John_10]

he also signed a lot of players which are not up to scratch unless they are being shouted at by MON

Like who?

[imavillan]

MON...He left knowing that this season would be a struggle so he could keep his ''value'' to a premium....

for all the good things he did for us he undid in August when he shit on us from a great height to make him self look good.....a master spin doctor..aka cock

[ChrisNichollsToe]

MON...He left knowing that this season would be a struggle so he could keep his ''value'' to a premium....

for all the good things he did for us he undid in August when he shit on us from a great height to make him self look good.....a master spin doctor..aka cock

Why dident he walk in May, then?

[Big_John_10]

MON...He left knowing that this season would be a struggle so he could keep his ''value'' to a premium....

for all the good things he did for us he undid in August when he shit on us from a great height to make him self look good.....a master spin doctor..aka cock

He knew somehow that all the players that performed for him to produce the best season in years would all of a sudden become shit? Yeah that sounds likely.

[thetrees]

MON...He left knowing that this season would be a struggle so he could keep his ''value'' to a premium....

for all the good things he did for us he undid in August when he shit on us from a great height to make him self look good.....a master spin doctor..aka cock

Why dident he walk in May, then?

Maximum effect?

[ChrisNichollsToe]

MON...He left knowing that this season would be a struggle so he could keep his ''value'' to a premium....

for all the good things he did for us he undid in August when he shit on us from a great height to make him self look good.....a master spin doctor..aka cock

Why dident he walk in May, then?

Maximum effect?

That would be a massive betrayel to his former players and the Fans.

Something happened, that forced him out.

Weve heared all the PR stuff from one side, but do we really know what happened?

Im not an Oneil devotee btw :winkold:

[imavillan]

MON...He left knowing that this season would be a struggle so he could keep his ''value'' to a premium....

for all the good things he did for us he undid in August when he shit on us from a great height to make him self look good.....a master spin doctor..aka cock

Why dident he walk in May, then?

Maximum effect?

That would be a massive betrayel to his former players and the Fans.

Something happened, that forced him out.

Weve heared all the PR stuff from one side, but do we really know what happened?

Im not an Oneil devotee btw :winkold:

Why didnt he walk in May??

He thought he was still top dog and by walking when he did he keeps his kudos high with the media and press on what a good job he did at Villa.

I have posted this on another site, just take a look at what he left us and ask

Friedal, please let me play forever too old,

Young, me go to Liverpoo for that money you must be joking,

Dunne, i’m the captain and bigger than the club and to old,

Ireland, signed by who ever and never wanted to be at the club,

Carew, i’m bigger than the club cause the fans sing my name, to old,

Heskey, i need a rest after being kicked again, to old,

Gabby, i used to be a forward when i was interested,

A Young, i love this club (and myself) and i’m going to sign a new contract (for someone else),

Beye, please play me cause i used to play for Newcastle before they were relegated,

Davies, i’m great, i must be because i cost 9.5m,

Sidwell, i can still trap a ball like i did for Chelski honest i can,

Salifou, i will be a good player one day,

Osbourne, i’ve been on loan at Middleboro and played for the first team under Strachan

NRC, you want a scrap Martin i’ll give you one.

take a look here and you will realise how much of a good squad we have…and why we are playing so many kids.

Not exactly world beaters are they...that what MON left us and it was no bettewr under Kevin Mac

[R.I.C.O.]

The blame has to lie with our pisspoor manager who should be getting way, way more out of this team than he is.

The sooner he is sacked the better. Time to end this mistake!!!

[TrentVilla]

I can't vote as I believe all 4 options to be in part correct.

[steve-67]

It's a mixture of several things. GH is out of his depth having spent several years away from the Premier league. Randy for allowing O'Neill too much say and then getting caught out when he walked out. O'Neill for walking at a time when he knew it would cause so much shit, also knowing that Mark Hughes had accepted the Fulham job. There could be an argument that Randy may have already targeted Hughed but then thought that O'Neill was going to stay. I also blame some of the players for not earning their huge salary because they clearly couldn't care less.

[Bazdavies79]

Houllier, the buck stops square with him.

[Mantis]

Can't believe so few people seem to think the players are to blame as well. I don't care if you don't approve of the manager. You are employed by the club and paying fans fund your wages. You wear the shirt you should do your best for the club.

[Big_John_10]

Can't believe so few people seem to think the players are to blame as well. I don't care if you don't approve of the manager. You are employed by the club and paying fans fund your wages. You wear the shirt you should do your best for the club.

No need for any club to have a manager then

[villadude]

It's a combination of all four.

[Mantis]

Can't believe so few people seem to think the players are to blame as well. I don't care if you don't approve of the manager. You are employed by the club and paying fans fund your wages. You wear the shirt you should do your best for the club.

No need for any club to have a manager then

What? :?

All I'm saying is that regardless of the managerial situation as paid professionals they should always give 100%, something they don't seem to be doing at the moment.