Stephen Ireland

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Don't forget Biscan.

[PompeyVillan]

"If you like Croatian players,

We've got Biscan in our club"

[barry'sboots]

it's not worth arguing. if you truly believe everything you've written there then it doesn't matter what i write because you're blind to it.

Seems a bit of a kop out? You are probably right that you will struggle to convince me (as it appears I with you) but I would like to hear why you think that he is our best CM'er and your counter arguments to mine about balance etc..

In short I think he's our best all round central midfielder. NRC may tackle better and have a bit more energy, but he's shite at passing and is much less creative. Ireland might pass better but he has less energy and can't tackle as well.

Couple that with some of the best technique out of anyone on the team coupled with some decent leadership skills (although Dunne should be captain IMO) and you have our best central midfielder.

Over the past 2 and a bit seasons he's been on eo four most consistent performers.

Do you really think NRC or Ireland (at the moment, I recognise Ireland's potential once he's settled) or Delph (again I recognise his potential but whilst he's shown prommise fo rus he's far from the finished article) are better than petrov? (I'm assuming our other CMs don't come into the equation)

I struggle to understand it if you do.

Firstly I don't think Petrov is anywhere near as good as I think you do. I think he is not fit enough to play 90 minutes in a 4-4-2 and fades in the second half. I believe that this was partially masked last season by Milner's fantastic engine. I think he can play in a 4-3-3/4-5-1 but even there I would prefer someone with more energy.

Again, I am not sure what attributes you think he has that make him our best CM'er. You talk of technique but I am not sure how this manifests itself.

He does slow things down and retain possession but I think this loses us the momentum against poorer sides allowing them to re-group and I think this was evidenced in several home and away games last year against this category of team e.g. Wigan H, Wolves H, Wet Spam H & A. I do think his ball retention is useful against better sides although again, I think Delph is better at this as evidenced in his display against Man U at home.

Our ideal CM for me with everybody fit would be:

--------------- NRC ---------------- Agressive tackling

---------------------- Delph ------- Controlling the game/keeping things ticking over

------- SI -------------------------- Getting around the striker

[barry'sboots]

Not sure if I like commnts like that "He can get the most out of me"

Sounds a bit like he's been reading too many papers saying manager might struggle to get him playing and believes it. It's something others can say, but I personally want our players to be driven and want to play well themselves, not let someone else sort a system that works round them.

Having said that, I think Ireland has looked OK so far. He's got such good control of the ball and once we have a settled team I think he should shine.

Maybe he means play a formation that utilises SI's skills to the max i.e. not a 4-4-2 with him and Stan as the CM'ers??

[Tomaszk]

Not sure if I like commnts like that "He can get the most out of me"

Sounds a bit like he's been reading too many papers saying manager might struggle to get him playing and believes it. It's something others can say, but I personally want our players to be driven and want to play well themselves, not let someone else sort a system that works round them.

Having said that, I think Ireland has looked OK so far. He's got such good control of the ball and once we have a settled team I think he should shine.

Maybe he means play a formation that utilises SI's skills to the max i.e. not a 4-4-2 with him and Stan as the CM'ers??

Possibly, but I don't like to hear players talking like this. He may have been very unlucky with what the journos are using from a longer interview to be fair, and I'm not having a go, he's been good so far I think. Decent performances, and a great attitude.

It just sounds like he's saying he's playing the best he possibly can, and needs more help before he can possibly play any better. I'd rather he'd not mentioned getting the best "me" but rather the "team".

[Rob182]

Tomaszk, I see where you're coming from and I agree to a point. But I just think that the comments are pretty generic and in the spirit of "Aston Villa have a new manager, the players get behind him". I'm sure we'll see a few more positive interviews from our players regarding the new staff at VP in the next few days.

We all know Ireland is a bit of an oddity, I don't think anything he says matters as long as he performs on the pitch.

I agree with you though, so far he's performed well.

[claret75]

Reading this thread is like reading Bluemoon a year or so ago, with the same opinions on Ireland being trotted out.

The fact is, Ireland can play in a small patch of the pitch just behind and to the right of the striker. Even then, he blows hot and cold. Ireland had his best ever time at City when he had the flair of Robinho to play off of, without this he mostly looks lost.

Also, don't talk about his fishtank, he's a sensitive lad on that issue.

I'd like to see Ashley Young back on the left wing, with Ireland in the middle and try to replicate the kind of synergy Robinho and Ireland had at Citeh.

Don't understand why this didn't happen.

[DiegoD]

In short I think he's our best all round central midfielder. NRC may tackle better and have a bit more energy, but he's shite at passing and is much less creative. Ireland might pass better but he has less energy and can't tackle as well.

Couple that with some of the best technique out of anyone on the team coupled with some decent leadership skills (although Dunne should be captain IMO) and you have our best central midfielder.

Over the past 2 and a bit seasons he's been one of our most consistent performers.

Do you really think NRC or Ireland (at the moment, I recognise Ireland's potential once he's settled) or Delph (again I recognise his potential but whilst he's shown prommise fo rus he's far from the finished article) are better than petrov? (I'm assuming our other CMs don't come into the equation)

I struggle to understand it if you do.

Firstly I don't think Petrov is anywhere near as good as I think you do. I think he is not fit enough to play 90 minutes in a 4-4-2 and fades in the second half. I believe that this was partially masked last season by Milner's fantastic engine. I think he can play in a 4-3-3/4-5-1 but even there I would prefer someone with more energy.

Again, I am not sure what attributes you think he has that make him our best CM'er. You talk of technique but I am not sure how this manifests itself.

He does slow things down and retain possession but I think this loses us the momentum against poorer sides allowing them to re-group and I think this was evidenced in several home and away games last year against this category of team e.g. Wigan H, Wolves H, Wet Spam H & A. I do think his ball retention is useful against better sides although again, I think Delph is better at this as evidenced in his display against Man U at home.

Our ideal CM for me with everybody fit would be:

--------------- NRC ---------------- Agressive tackling

---------------------- Delph ------- Controlling the game/keeping things ticking over

------- SI -------------------------- Getting around the striker

I think he's our best CM because he has the best positional sense by far. He gets himself into positions to make tackles and receive the ball. He is our only CM that can sit on the ball and more importantly control the tempo. NRC is very much a 1 tempo player and when you aren't retaining the ball most of the time he is just going to help it come straight back.

I don't agree at all with your loses us momentum argument. Against poorer sides we should be aiming to dominate possession and only counter at the right times. When Petrov thinks the counter is on he releases the ball quickly (I will concede that i think that he could play for the counter a little more often) but I don't understand how not trying killer passes and simply ticking the ball over as well as he does is bad for momentum.

Delph is promising but still learning, but i thought one of our best midfield performances last season was with Delph and Petrov against Bolton. Hopefully when he comes back we can rotate him in for a few games. Sidwell hasn't shown anything for us to consider him as anything more then back-up with a good long shot.

SI hasn't shown ability to work in a midfield duo, so lets bother with him for now.

[Stu_The_Villan]

NRC may tackle better and have a bit more energy, but he's shite at passing and is much less creative.

Than Petrov you mean?? The reason i ask i because ive NEVER seen this creative Stan Petrov play in Claret and Blue!! In green and white hoops he may have looked like Ronaldinho but i honestly cant recall him doing anything creative whilst hes been here.

Not having a dig at Petrov, but creative player he is not.

[Risso]

NRC may tackle better and have a bit more energy, but he's shite at passing and is much less creative.

Than Petrov you mean?? The reason i ask i because ive NEVER seen this creative Stan Petrov play in Claret and Blue!! In green and white hoops he may have looked like Ronaldinho but i honestly cant recall him doing anything creative whilst hes been here.

Not having a dig at Petrov, but creative player he is not.

Maybe not, but his passing is a lot better and more varids than NRC's.

[Stu_The_Villan]

I think NRC is the better all round player tbh

[PaulTheVillan]

I think we need NRC and Delph playing deeper than Ireland, Downing and Young.

They'll cover more ground than Petrov.

Sidwell is just not an option.

[barry'sboots]

I think he's our best CM because he has the best positional sense by far. He gets himself into positions to make tackles and receive the ball.

For positional sense I would say that Stan doesn't really move from his "sitting" position. I do not see him passing and moving to receive a return pass ever. For me, NRC demonstrated that he can play this role against Bolton H last year (the only chance MON gave him as the sitting midfielder in the last two years) but when he is played alongside Stan he has to be the box to box midfielder as Stan couldn't do that role.

He is our only CM that can sit on the ball and more importantly control the tempo. NRC is very much a 1 tempo player and when you aren't retaining the ball most of the time he is just going to help it come straight back.

Stan is also one tempo IMO, just a lot slower than NRC. I think you are not reflecting NRC's recent performances when you say he gives it away continually. He has to be much more forward looking than Stan because of the role he is asked to play when alongside Stan. Going forward means that there is a risk of losing the ball BUT he does this much less than he is credited with IMO.

I don't agree at all with your loses us momentum argument. Against poorer sides we should be aiming to dominate possession and only counter at the right times. When Petrov thinks the counter is on he releases the ball quickly (I will concede that i think that he could play for the counter a little more often) but I don't understand how not trying killer passes and simply ticking the ball over as well as he does is bad for momentum.

I think this is evidenced in performances against bottom half teams last season - the likes of Wigan H, Wolves H&A, West Ham H&A, Burnley A etc. where our performances were lacklustre and lacked any drive. Compare this to the one game that NRC played the DCM role - Bolton H -when we dominated throughout the whole 90 minutes. I can't think of another home game where we did this playing 4-4-2?? Small sample I know but I can only refer to the games he is given a chance to play this role and, IMO, he deserves a run of being able to show this.

Delph is promising but still learning, but i thought one of our best midfield performances last season was with Delph and Petrov against Bolton. Hopefully when he comes back we can rotate him in for a few games. Sidwell hasn't shown anything for us to consider him as anything more then back-up with a good long shot.

I assume that was the away game that I can't claim to remember. I thought Delph was assume in the first 30 minutes against Man U H when he stole the show. We lost the impetus when MON failed to respond to Man U going down to 10 men. I really rate Delph and think he has England international potential but in a 3 IMO or with a good link striker. Agree on Sidders.

SI hasn't shown ability to work in a midfield duo, so lets bother with him for now.

Like most, I see him as a second striker or ACM in a three although I wouldn't mind seeing him with NRC in a pair against poorer teams. I think NRC could bring the energy to that pairing.

[ChrisNichollsToe]

I think NRC is the better all round player tbh

Really?

I triied doing a search for NRC, but alas......nothing

[claret75]

wrong thread

[bannedfromHandV]

Fully appreciate that he's made only three appearances and is still settling in, this is not in question but, can anyone genuinely say that they've been impressed with him so far?

Honest appraisals would be appreciated, i.e. take away the fact that he's new to the club etc as those things are given already.

[Mr_Dogg]

Fully appreciate that he's made only three appearances and is still settling in, this is not in question but, can anyone genuinely say that they've been impressed with him so far?

Honest appraisals would be appreciated, i.e. take away the fact that he's new to the club etc as those things are given already.

Completely misused in fairness.

[bannedfromHandV]

Fully appreciate that he's made only three appearances and is still settling in, this is not in question but, can anyone genuinely say that they've been impressed with him so far?

Honest appraisals would be appreciated, i.e. take away the fact that he's new to the club etc as those things are given already.

Completely misused in fairness.

True, but I reckon you could put Wayne Rooney at right back and still be in awe of his ability.

A top player will come across as being a top player wherever he's played....within reason.

Playing SI, who is a midfielder, in midfield should not pose a massive problem to him.

[Condimentalist]

Fully appreciate that he's made only three appearances and is still settling in, this is not in question but, can anyone genuinely say that they've been impressed with him so far?

Honest appraisals would be appreciated, i.e. take away the fact that he's new to the club etc as those things are given already.

He has shown glimpses of his ability, but to remove the other factors would be silly. He definitely isn't match fit, I thought that was blindingly obvious from the game on Saturday.

He can be a good player for us, but we have to use him right.

[Anything11]

He makes some brilliant runs - i watched him closely all of the bolton game and he seemd to be popping up at the wrong time. He'd come for the ball and it wouldn't get played to him and then he'd move to a new position and it'd go to where he just was. I think it's just a matter of adjusting to the way the team plays and knowing when and where to pop up and make those runs which will come with time.

He is a quality player and will do very well for villa if he can adjust - was pretty close to getting a goal against bolton as well.