The Wrestling Topic

[Villaphan04]

35 minutes ago, Daweii said:

So Smackdown went all in this week.. Holy shit.

For those that haven't watched it yet I will say go watch it as some parts are great, like really really great. Those that have my thoughts are spoilered below; 

  Reveal hidden contents

The opener;

Only Smackdown Live could make a throwaway potentially final feud for Nikki Bella (she might be retiring) at WrestleMania feel like must-see TV. John Cena and The Miz were on fire last night. We all know John Cena is incredible on the mic, but The Miz just injects so much to every feud as the heel with his impeccable promo delivery. He is the guy you love to hate and the perfect foil for a baby face like Cena to dismantle. The promo was so good and it has set up the mixed tag Cena/Bella vs Miz/Maryse at WM33. The match was a typical throwaway mid-card match no one would care about, but now it all feels personal and in one single promo feels like it's a feud that has been building for a decade. Great writing.  

AJ Styles vs Luke Harper;

Now I'll get this out of the way. Harper looked weak the way the match finishes as he took the pin twice last night which isn't helping him. Yes each finish was dusty, but he's still the guy that ate two pins in one night. As for AJ Styles winning it makes sense as he is the main event right now as very few are better than him. I'm still unsure if this is the end of tale or if there are more twists and turns to be had (more on that in a bit), but for now AJ Styles vs Bray Wyatt feels like a main event worthy of WrestleMania.

The closer;

This was straight out of the Attitude Era playbook and it was brilliant. Randy Orton put on the promo of his entire career as he revealed that it was all part of his plan to destroy Bray Wyatt and the Wyatt family. This promo was dark Orton had tried to dig up the corpse of the fabled Sister Abigail, but later resorted to burning down her final resting place to get into the head of Bray Wyatt. I haven't seen a promo like that since the Attitude Era where it was pretty common place to touch on dark themes and risque themes, but this was completely unexpected. Though that brings me to WM33 what is the main event going to be? Is Orton back in the main event? Where are they going next with this on the road to WM33.

Overall Smackdown Live was solid. I missed out some things, but they were largely not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

 

Spoiler

After last night's "Miz TV" it brings me some shame to say that I already am more invested in that potential Miz/Maryse and Cena/Bella match then any of the current feuds on Raw. I just cannot comprehend how one show is consistently booked so much better than the other. 

Also- I think that the Miz is experiencing the best part of his career. I can definitely see him getting a world title shot later in the year. He has been on fire since that Talking Smack promo on DBry

 

[Demitri_C]

The Nikki Bella line was fantastic. Love it

[Daweii]

So RAW just put on one of the worst PPV's I've seen in a while.

I don't get how a PPV with 3-4 weeks of building can feel so thrown together.

The only good match was Reigns vs Strowman a match with incredible storytelling and selling from both men.

The main event wasn't even an event, it was a complete waste of time; SPOILER

Spoiler

It lasted 21 seconds..

I don't understand how RAW books shows anymore. I really fear for the quality of WM33 solely because RAW is part of the event. 

[Villanun]

1 hour ago, Daweii said:

So RAW just put on one of the worst PPV's I've seen in a while.

I don't get how a PPV with 3-4 weeks of building can feel so thrown together.

The only good match was Reigns vs Strowman a match with incredible storytelling and selling from both men.

The main event wasn't even an event, it was a complete waste of time; SPOILER

  Reveal hidden contents

It lasted 21 seconds..

I don't understand how RAW books shows anymore. I really fear for the quality of WM33 solely because RAW is part of the event. 

I enjoyed the Cruiserweight match, especially given how beaten up Gallagher looked at the end, and the Reigns/Strowman match was surprisingly good, but the rest of it was shit. Dull, predictable and disappointing. When even a Samoa Joe match is a let down you know you're in for a bad night.

And how can a PPV have space for two bonus matches? Did they just leave a big gap in the middle of the schedule just case? It makes zero sense. Oh, and way to bury Rusev in favor of a young up-and-comer like Big Show. Show needed the push.

Still, the promise of Austin Aries returning to the ring fills me with joy, and Corey Graves on commentary is SO good.

[Villaphan04]

I continue to be baffled by how bad one show can be while the other one looks so good. I really want to know if they are booked by the same person because it looks to me that they are not. Smackdown Live! is booked 100 times better than raw. I said this before but I have more interest in Cena/Bella v Miz/Maryse at WM just because of last week's show than I did for any of the storylines yesterday. 

[Daweii]

54 minutes ago, Villaphan04 said:

I continue to be baffled by how bad one show can be while the other one looks so good. I really want to know if they are booked by the same person because it looks to me that they are not. Smackdown Live! is booked 100 times better than raw. I said this before but I have more interest in Cena/Bella v Miz/Maryse at WM just because of last week's show than I did for any of the storylines yesterday. 

They have different writers.

RAW is written largely by Edward Koskey (lead writer) and Robert Evans. The issue RAW is having is Edward Koskey has been around a while and he's just not very good.

Smackdown Live is written largely by Ryan Ward and Steven Guerreri. These two were an important part in why NXT was great a couple years ago and now they are the reason Smackdown Live is so great now. Ryan Ward is largely considered the best writer WWE have currently and it shows in the product.

What confuses me is that Stephanie McMahon and Vince McMahon still have executive control over any creative decisions, so they are letting this happen.

[sharkyvilla]

They couldn't really make the Universal match any longer because of what happened at Survivor Series.  I think they should have had Lesnar eliminate Goldberg in the Royal Rumble so that it's effectively 1–1 and then yesterday they could have had Owens at least put on a match.  Goldberg v Lesnar doesn't need a title anyway.

[Dr_Pangloss]

The product has really gone down the pan IMO. It has flirted with a bit of a revival with the signing of talent such as AJ Styles, Finn Balor, Samoa Joe etc and who knows, if they resign Matt and Jeff Hardy then that could give an interesting dimension (but then they probably won't know what to do with them), but ultimately the product sucks for the most part. You really do have the be desperate to give a 50 year old relic a title.

I wonder how sustainable the WWE is. It's share price seems to just bounce around with no real long term growth at all, it's TV ratings in the US are a fraction of what they were in it's prime (some of that undoubtedly down to shifting viewing habits but surely a lot of it down to declining interest, especially among 18-34 males), so I guess a lot of it depends on the success of the WWE Network (seems to be growing modestly) and whether it can grow it's popularity more outside of the US.  

Whenever I watch you seem to have a show which has been thrown together haphazardly, matches seldom tell a story and the entire thing just lacks energy - the atmosphere sucks, it's as though the crowd are rarely isn't even into, even the commentators sound labored and with forced enthusiasm. I reckon the WWE is on it's last legs. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss

[Demitri_C]

Fastlane was terrible

[Villanun]

16 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

The product has really gone down the pan IMO. It has flirted with a bit of a revival with the signing of talent such as AJ Styles, Finn Balor, Samoa Joe etc and who knows, if they resign Matt and Jeff Hardy then that could give an interesting dimension (but then they probably won't know what to do with them), but ultimately the product sucks for the most part. You really do have the be desperate to give a 50 year old relic a title.

I wonder how sustainable the WWE is. It's share price seems to just bounce around with no real long term growth at all, it's TV ratings in the US are a fraction of what they were in it's prime (some of that undoubtedly down to shifting viewing habits but surely a lot of it down to declining interest, especially among 18-34 males), so I guess a lot of it depends on the success of the WWE Network (seems to be growing modestly) and whether it can grow it's popularity more outside of the US.  

Whenever I watch you seem to have a show which has been thrown together haphazardly, matches seldom tell a story and the entire thing just lacks energy - the atmosphere sucks, it's as though the crowd are rarely isn't even into, even the commentators sound labored and with forced enthusiasm. I reckon the WWE is on it's last legs. 

The Network's doing okay, so I doubt WWE is going anywhere soon. As for putting the belt on a 50 year old, it's all about nostalgia during the build to Wrestlemania. Like it or not, Goldberg is more likely to draw in people who gave up wrestling a while ago, and having a belt on the line supposedly adds to the drama. Unfortunately that means burying the young up-and-coming talent in favour of a couple of part-timers, one of whom has wrestled less than six minutes since return. But hey, at least it means that they can have Roman Reigns beat Lesnar for the belt at Summerslam - then we'll all finally realise we've loved Roman all along, right?

[hogso]

I've started keeping up with NXT again, there's been some decent 'UK' matches recently. I call them 'UK' matches cos they've featured participants from the UK title tournament. It'd be nice if they formed a Nexus/Shield style stable and **** stuff up, but, knowing how WWE books wrestlers like these there isn't really a chance - they'll end up in the Cruiserweight division, or at best a couple of them might have a tag title run.

No Kimber Lee the past few weeks though (they're pushing this pretty young blonde whose name escapes me, who is rubbish, and Ember Moon, who is OK), but Roddy is looking great - when he gets a chance. The roster is stacked and I think there's a good case for them having a 90 minute show, really don't think it would dilute the quality at all.

I see that OI4K are getting booked regularly in PWG which is excellent as they're a great team and have some real wars in CZW over the years. Speaking of which, Shane Strickland, Lio Rush, Sami Callihan and OI4K are all booked for the next PWG show. I haven't kept up with CZW for some time, but there has been real talent in the organisation recently, and it's nice to see the individuals that should are getting more exposure. What I have seen of CZW recently though is Joey Janela, who is excellent, and does work deathmatches too. He'll go far. He did a roof spot with Zandig a while back in GCW (Game Changing Wrestling - they did a 'Zandig invitational tournament') which was reminiscent of the classic Mother F'n Bomb Nick Mondo took a ToD 2. Fortunately Janela didn't have to retire as a result of it, unlike Sick Nick.

Had the opportunity to go to the RevPro event in London earlier in the month, didn't - and boy do I regret it. Zack Sabre and Mike Bailey brought the roof down in the main event I hear.

Also, has anyone watched any of WCPW (What Culture Pro Wrestling)? They put on more or less a card a week, and stream them for free on Youtube. It's a decent product, the card from yesterday's event was;

• Drew Galloway (c) vs Will Ospreay – WCPW Title
• Cody Rhodes (c) vs Liam Slater – WCPW Internet Title
• Martin Kirby vs BT Gunn
• Primate vs Rampage – Best Of Seven Series
• Delirious vs Silas Young – ROH Guest Match
• Marty Scurll vs David Starr – In Association With RevPro

Very solid stuff. They're doing a 64 man 'World Cup' tournament, here is the card for the Nottingham event for the England section of the bracket, which takes place later this month;

First Round:

• Will Ospreay vs Martin Kirby
• Rampage vs Nick Aldis
• Marty Scurll vs Zack Sabre Jr
• Jimmy Havoc vs Zack Gibson

+ Semi's

• Drew Galloway vs Ricochet
• Bullet Club (The Young Bucks, Adam Cole, Cody Rhodes)
• Joe Hendry
• Joe Coffey
• Travis Banks
• BT Gunn
• Gabriel Kidd
• El Ligero

Stacked! Tempted to go, the Mexico qualifier is in Cov so that's handy too.

[Demitri_C]

The best thing about raw at the monent is Chris jericho. The guy is a absolute ledge 

 

[Daweii]

So Smackdown Live just put on one of the worst episodes of Smackdown Live since the brand split.

Smackdown Live normally gets it so right, but here they got it so wrong on numerous occasions that several spots felt rushed or pointless. It was only last week that Smackdown Live put on one of the greatest televised episodes of WWE programming in years and they follow it up with this, I'm confused as this was not of the quality we have come to expect from the Blue brand post-brand split. 

The good;

Spoiler

 

The Miz is yet again on fire and just knows how to generate heat and hatred towards his character. The match that proceeded his attack on Cena/Bella and promo was a throw away alarmingly bad match. Cena and Bella have no in-ring chemistry and they only have three weeks to get their shit together otherwise this could be a must-see match that is must-see for all the wrong reasons. The Miz saved this segment as he typically always does, but the feud may be the best part of this match at WM33 as the in-ring quality so far isn't great.

Baron Corbin is a beast. I really hope that WWE Creative keep going with the unhinged Dean Ambrose set on revenge constantly getting outsmarted. Yes it doesn't make Ambrose look great, but I feel this feud is in the business of building a future star in Corbin than raising Ambrose up further. Either way this segment was decent and Corbin looked like a monster yet again with his backstage attack. I hope Creative do more with this as it could be a great match at WM33 and perhaps one of the matches of the night for what is fast becoming a rather underwhelming WrestleMania.   

Randy Orton vs AJ Styles was absolute gold. These two have a chemistry together that you just can't teach, they are both veterans of their craft and it showed. This match was phenomenal and not just because AJ Styles was in it. It's a shame in a way that they don't seem to be pushing a Triple Threat angle for WM33 as I feel Orton vs Styles vs Wyatt would be a bigger, potentially better match than Orton vs Wyatt alone. All in all though this match was quality and it's crazy a match this good was main eventing a televised mid-week show. 

 

The bad;

Spoiler

 

The opening segment was terrible. They wasted almost 15 minutes to recap and announce a match on the show that had been announced almost a week prior to Smackdown Live this week. I know WWE like to waste time sometimes, I don't know why because they could just make more important segments a bit longer, but they do and this was one of the worst waste of time segments I have ever seen. Also if the plan is still AJ Styles vs Shane McMahon then having Shane in support of AJ to main event WM33 because he won last week doesn't give AJ Styles much ammo to work with. He can be angry at Daniel Bryan, but not Shane, not really. Pointless and pathetically written.

The Blissertation was probably bad enough to have set back the Women's Division on Smackdown Live a bit. It was petty bitchy one liners that felt more Diva's Era than Women's Revolution Era. This was a very very poor segment and just shouldn't have happened. I also don't get why Smackdown Live are rushing any feud for the Women's Title when they have three weeks to play with. I didn't like this segment at all and it hurt that Smackdown Live would air anything this bad, it was possibly the worst segment on WWE TV this year (yeah I said it).

Lynch/Natalya vs Bliss/James was more of the same rushing to get stuff done. This match followed the absolutely dire Blissertation segment and just felt rushed. There is no build here just four Women that all want the Title, but perhaps don't deserve it aside from maybe Becky Lynch. The kicker here is that they tried to rush in a Fatal 4 Way angle to a feud that doesn't even make sense to begin with. Natalya turned on Lynch which isn't surprising as Natalya is a heel, but James turning on Bliss for something as innocuous as Bliss tagging herself in was a little weak. They should have spent at least another week or two building that tension between James and Bliss because it just feels rushed as it stands. Hopefully Smackdown Live have some plans to build this feud up, maybe adding a stipulation like a Fatal 4 Way Ladder Match or something will get people excited regardless, but for now this isn't great.

 

Now the plus side is Smackdown Live have three weeks to turn around this shit show and make us care about some of the matches teased for WM33 last night, but they have a hell of a job on their hands as they screwed up so badly this week. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Daweii

[Demitri_C]

51 minutes ago, Daweii said:

So Smackdown Live just put on one of the worst episodes of Smackdown Live since the brand split.

Smackdown Live normally gets it so right, but here they got it so wrong on numerous occasions that several spots felt rushed or pointless. It was only last week that Smackdown Live put on one of the greatest televised episodes of WWE programming in years and they follow it up with this, I'm confused as this was not of the quality we have come to expect from the Blue brand post-brand split. 

The good;

  Hide contents

 

The Miz is yet again on fire and just knows how to generate heat and hatred towards his character. The match that proceeded his attack on Cena/Bella and promo was a throw away alarmingly bad match. Cena and Bella have no in-ring chemistry and they only have three weeks to get their shit together otherwise this could be a must-see match that is must-see for all the wrong reasons. The Miz saved this segment as he typically always does, but the feud may be the best part of this match at WM33 as the in-ring quality so far isn't great.

Baron Corbin is a beast. I really hope that WWE Creative keep going with the unhinged Dean Ambrose set on revenge constantly getting outsmarted. Yes it doesn't make Ambrose look great, but I feel this feud is in the business of building a future star in Corbin than raising Ambrose up further. Either way this segment was decent and Corbin looked like a monster yet again with his backstage attack. I hope Creative do more with this as it could be a great match at WM33 and perhaps one of the matches of the night for what is fast becoming a rather underwhelming WrestleMania.   

Randy Orton vs AJ Styles was absolute gold. These two have a chemistry together that you just can't teach, they are both veterans of their craft and it showed. This match was phenomenal and not just because AJ Styles was in it. It's a shame in a way that they don't seem to be pushing a Triple Threat angle for WM33 as I feel Orton vs Styles vs Wyatt would be a bigger, potentially better match than Orton vs Wyatt alone. All in all though this match was quality and it's crazy a match this good was main eventing a televised mid-week show. 

 

The bad;

  Hide contents

 

The opening segment was terrible. They wasted almost 15 minutes to recap and announce a match on the show that had been announced almost a week prior to Smackdown Live this week. I know WWE like to waste time sometimes, I don't know why because they could just make more important segments a bit longer, but they do and this was one of the worst waste of time segments I have ever seen. Also if the plan is still AJ Styles vs Shane McMahon then having Shane in support of AJ to main event WM33 because he won last week doesn't give AJ Styles much ammo to work with. He can be angry at Daniel Bryan, but not Shane, not really. Pointless and pathetically written.

The Blissertation was probably bad enough to have set back the Women's Division on Smackdown Live a bit. It was petty bitchy one liners that felt more Diva's Era than Women's Revolution Era. This was a very very poor segment and just shouldn't have happened. I also don't get why Smackdown Live are rushing any feud for the Women's Title when they have three weeks to play with. I didn't like this segment at all and it hurt that Smackdown Live would air anything this bad, it was possibly the worst segment on WWE TV this year (yeah I said it).

Lynch/Natalya vs Bliss/James was more of the same rushing to get stuff done. This match followed the absolutely dire Blissertation segment and just felt rushed. There is no build here just four Women that all want the Title, but perhaps don't deserve it aside from maybe Becky Lynch. The kicker here is that they tried to rush in a Fatal 4 Way angle to a feud that doesn't even make sense to begin with. Natalya turned on Lynch which isn't surprising as Natalya is a heel, but James turning on Bliss for something as innocuous as Bliss tagging herself in was a little weak. They should have spent at least another week or two building that tension between James and Bliss because it just feels rushed as it stands. Hopefully Smackdown Live have some plans to build this feud up, maybe adding a stipulation like a Fatal 4 Way Ladder Match or something will get people excited regardless, but for now this isn't great.

 

Now the plus side is Smackdown Live have three weeks to turn around this shit show and make us care about some of the matches teased for WM33 last night, but they have a hell of a job on their hands as they screwed up so badly this week. 

Spoiler

Your absolutely right why was he angry at Shane when he should be angry at Bryan.  It's so stupid

and surely after what AJ had been though a triple threat would have been a much better answer? What a match that would be. Instead we get a yawn fest in watching Orton win another title. AJ styles is the best thing about smack down and wwe at the moment

 

[Wainy316]

Raw was actually decent as a stand alone show this week.

[Phumfeinz]

This is the first year in a long time I'm not going to bother watching Wrestlemania live. Just zero interest whatsoever and it absolutely creases me up that their answer to Omega vs Okada is Lesnar vs Goldberg.  

[The_Rev]

 

Sometimes I get all nostalgic, this is the version of Wrestling I watched as a kid.  The opening minute where McMahon and Perfect talk in front of a really bad green screen is hilarious, though it would have gone totally over my head at the time (I'd have been 13). Amazing stuff. Watch it. 

[Villaphan04]

Spoiler

Rumors have Reigns v Lesnar for the title in the main event of WM 34 next year. 

Anddd Chris Jericho is apparently going to be taking off some time over the summer. Will be a huge blow to Raw. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Villaphan04

[hogso]

Some homemade Paige porn has been leaked, allegedly by her ex Brad Maddox. In one she has him finish on her face and the NXT Women's Title. Talk about degrading a championship! 

Surely she'll be sacked now? Seems to have had a number of issues over the years, and I'm sure she's only 23.

Xavier Woods is involved in a threesome with her too, with some suggestion New Day may be kept backstage - not as punishment, the porn may have been stolen after all - but to protect them from some of the more, uh, vocal and lively crowds. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by hogso

[Dr_Pangloss]

9 minutes ago, hogso said:

Some homemade Paige porn has been leaked, allegedly by her ex Brad Maddox. In one she has him finish on her face and the NXT Women's Title. Talk about degrading a championship! 

Surely she'll be sacked now? Seems to have had a number of issues over the years, and I'm sure she's only 23.

Xavier Woods is involved in a threesome with her too, with some suggestion New Day may be kept backstage - not as punishment, the porn may have been stolen after all - but to protect them from some of the more, uh, vocal and lively crowds. 

Thanks for the heads up, frantically opening up Google as we speak.