If there was a general election tomorrow...

[TrentVilla]

Didn't Labour screw up the finances before and the Tories came in and sorted it out?

Yeah they sold everything that wasn't nailed down.

[Awol]

So many holes in that it looks like a tramps sock :-)

So Levi doesn't actually agree with you and therefore all is right with the world again.

In a General Election we vote in constituencies - i.e. you vote for a MP to represent your area. So therefore me living in the Peak District I do NOT vote for a MP in Walsall for example.

Yes, I am aware of that believe it or not. My point was the principle as summarised by Gringo of one man one vote. If you are citizen you should be able to register your preference somewhere, ie, wherever you are registered on the electoral role. Simples.

Hence the stupidity of allowing none domiciles to have a vote

Not a very democratic position but entirely in character

The UK has NOT ceeded responsibility to the EU and that is just your UKIP bias speaking.

A highly debatable argument but that one deserves it's own thread.

TBH you seem on one hand to be in favour of non residents voting and on the other hand object to it.

Haha, I haven't expressed an objection to it, I was trying to find out your position on the question of Britons living in the EU outside the UK and whether they should have the right to vote or not. A question you have once again tried to turn around without actually answering, again.

Didn't Labour screw up the finances before and the Tories came in and sorted it out?

Could be happening again?

Urban Myth Jez

Yes they did Jez, that's why they in 1976 the Labour Government had to call in the IMF to bail out the country. That's not an Urban Myth, it's a historical fact.

[wiganvillain]

AWOL,

dare we ask which "Benevolent Dictatorship" you're moving to (wouldn't have a Sultan would it?) and will you be registering for a postal vote, even if only to piss Drat off

[Awol]

AWOL,

dare we ask which "Benevolent Dictatorship" you're moving to (wouldn't have a Sultan would it?) and will you be registering for a postal vote, even if only to piss Drat off

PM to you mate.

[chrisp65]

interesting to see a debate about the state of things in '76 with the received wisdom trotted out that Labour screwed the economy and the tories had to put it right again.

When Wilson's Labour won in '74 they had actually presumed they would lose as the opinion polls ahd them a good 10 points behind late in the race - they had also been tipped off as to the state the conservaties and world events had left the economy in and many Labour shadow ministers didn't want to win as they would have to try and sort out a proper shit storm people didn't yet fully understand.

perhaps we shouldn't be comparing Labour's ability to press the accelerator with the tories ability to put on the breaks - perhaps we should be asking if either side are actually at all qualified to drive the bus!

[Awol]

perhaps we should be asking if either side are actually at all qualified to drive the bus!

Spot on Chris, our survey says.... X

FWIW I think we could face a second election within 12 months of the next one anyway, running UK plc in 2010 is a poisoned chalice imo.

[drat01]

Jon you must read things in a totally different way to others that's all I can say

So Levi doesn't actually agree with you and therefore all is right with the world again.

I don;t get the relevance of that at all - so Levi - A US citizen with a totally different way of electing people has said something and that makes it right? Again you fail to grasp the fact that in this country you vote in your own little patch, i.e. a constituency. What gives you teh right to vote there exactly? Why can I not vote in say Aldridge, where I lived a good chunk of my life? I will agree with one thing you say - simples

My point was the principle as summarised by Gringo of one man one vote. If you are citizen you should be able to register your preference somewhere, ie, wherever you are registered on the electoral role. Simples.

Did Gringo say that? I have him saying

Democracy is one person one vote. Not one person, one vote per country. So if you vote in new zealand, dubai, spain, iom, gibralter, jersey, ireland or antigua you forgo any democratic right to vote in the uk.

I think that's a simple test.

Again backing up the feeling that you should not have a vote in the UK plus one in another country. Are you supporting the idea of PR?

Gringo also then addds

Overseas voters

If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the register of electors. This means that you cannot vote in an election or referendum here in Ireland. (The only exception to this is in the case of Irish officials on duty abroad (and their spouses) who may register on the postal voters list).

which seems pretty consistent with the live in the country - vote there stance

Not a very democratic position but entirely in character

Oh dear oh dear oh dear - resorting to that sort of argument are we? Why exactly is it none democratic? Using Gringo's example then and probably a lot of other countries world wide are they none democratic - or is it if it doesn't agree with Jon's stance it can't be democratic

A highly debatable argument but that one deserves it's own thread.

Been done million times and it seems that the Tory party even agree that not to be the case hence their shift in views.

Haha, I haven't expressed an objection to it, I was trying to find out your position on the question of Britons living in the EU outside the UK and whether they should have the right to vote or not. A question you have once again tried to turn around without actually answering, again.

Again confusing and maybe more a case of posting for a reaction? :-) - come on Jon you are better than that. The EU has **** all to do with it other than you are trying to back up your UKIP stance. I can't think of many more ways of answering your question, I have said about living in a constituency and rights to vote, given examples of where it is wrong (it depends **** all on which country etc) - I will throw another one at you - if you work in London should you be able to vote for the Mayor there?. I really am struggling to see what your question is, all I can see is some loaded one about the EU, when this has nothing at all to do with that.

Yes they did Jez, that's why they in 1976 the Labour Government had to call in the IMF to bail out the country. That's not an Urban Myth, it's a historical fact.

Ah the Torygraph book of politics was delivered at Xmas I see :-) - Funny you would think that the slick Tory marketing would have grasped that if there was an ounce of truth but surprisingly not. Ah well as you have said you are too young to have lived through a Conservative gvmt, maybe the few of us who have may well have differing views, especially when Dave and Gideon and Hanna get going - long live the Privatised NHS :-)

[Awol]

Ian, you're funnier than a Fawlty Towers box set. In the interests of sanity I'll stop dancing around in cirlces with you and simply look forward to casting my vote from a sunnier location

[tonyh29]

well as you have said you are too young to have lived through a Conservative gvmt, maybe the few of us who have may well have differing views

Interesting if you search under Britain's best PM the results tend to show Thatcher in either first or second place

A few Northerners and scruffy Che Guevara t-shirt wearing students not satisfied with one government doesn't make it a bad one

NHS is an interesting one , as cameron has made big pledges on the NHS and if he fails to deliver on them he could find himself vying with Brown for the title of Britain's worse ever PM

[snowychap]

Interesting if you search under Britain's best PM the results tend to show Thatcher in either first or second place

I dare say Berlusconi and Mussolini might do quite well in an Italian poll of their leaders, too.

[LJRM050389]

With regards the young NUS is majority left. Infact the two top boys are Labour! At my uni the Guardian is the best selling newspaper too!

[TrentVilla]

NHS is an interesting one , as cameron has made big pledges on the NHS and if he fails to deliver on them he could find himself vying with Brown for the title of Britain's worse ever PM

Well it appears that he has started early as he is already going back on pledges on the NHS according to the Independant today.

Mr Cameron also conceded the Tories had downgraded a pledge to provide 45,000 single rooms in NHS hospitals within five years. He described it as "an aspiration" but added: "It is not a pledge we can guarantee for a [five-year] parliament."

Here

[tonyh29]

Interesting if you search under Britain's best PM the results tend to show Thatcher in either first or second place

I dare say Berlusconi and Mussolini might do quite well in an Italian poll of their leaders, too.

depends who you ask in the poll i guess ...

"I sincerely believe I am by far the best prime minister Italy has had in its 150 year history (since unification in 1861)," Berlusconi said in televised news conference

[snowychap]

depends who you ask in the poll i guess ...

"I sincerely believe I am by far the best prime minister Italy has had in its 150 year history (since unification in 1861)," Berlusconi said in televised news conference

Ha ha, good find.

Not exactly wanting for self-confidence is Silvio.

[blandy]

...In a General Election we vote in constituencies - i.e. you vote for a MP to represent your area. So therefore me living in the Peak District I do NOT vote for a MP in Walsall for example. Hence the stupidity of allowing none domiciles to have a vote..

Plenty of other Countries allow/encourage ex-pats to vote in their Elections - France, the USA etc. It seems a good thing to me.

As a UK citizen by birth and so on, if I went to live and work in Abroadia, I'd still be protected/served/dealt with by UK consuls and Embassies etc. I might at a later stage return to the UK, I might still have investments or property or whatever in the UK. I'd still have a strong interest in the situation in the Country of my origin and feel that the argument "you don't live there you can't have a vote there" fails to recognise such factors. Additionally if I went to live in the US, I wouldn't get to vote there, even though I lived there - so I'd get neither a vote where i lived, not a vote in my home country.

Finally being entitled to vote, and actually voting are 2 different things. By this I mean people who genuinely "wash their hands of the UK and all it stands for" an eff off to Elsewhere probably would not bother to vote in a UK election, whereas people who retain an interest - maybe their relatives are in the care of a UK hospital or care home, maybe they are working abroad rather than being on the dole in the UK, in order to support family members in the UK - it happens a fair amount, that. Depriving these people of the right to vote is not something I agree with, on balance.

As for "you vote for the MP for Edgbaston (or wherever), and you're in Zambia" - it doesn't stop the US exiles or Frnch exiles voting for the Florida or New York Representative and senator (or whatever) does it - you just vote for the bod at your last UK place of residence.

I can see the simple logic of the argument " not here, can't vote here" but life's not really always that simple. The counter, that people who live here but are not UK citizens should be eligeable to vote in UK elections - what do you think of that? Should there be a qualifying period (and disqualifying period - eg. once you 've been out the UK for 5 years you lose the right, or once you've lived here 5 years, even if you're an Aussie you can vote...)

ANyway, on the main topic - Tories. I'm scared what a mess they'd make if they got in, and given we're not in a great position to start with, that's even more terrifying. Labour - exhausted shambles without any sense of ideals

[Gringo]

Interesting if you search under Britain's best PM the results tend to show Thatcher in either first or second place

No they don't.

I belive you are referring to the bbc polls which were for the 'greatest' PM - and greatness was measured in terms of how much of what they set out to achieve actually came to fruition. By such a measure then snowy is right, mussolini would also do well. The measure does not include how good the PM was or whether they left the country in a better state than they found it. We've had 30 years of thatcher-led policies now, the country's bankrupt, the people have lost faith in the politicians ability to lead them, the skules are broke and inequality is worse than ever.

[Awol]

Just following the OT line of Great PM's for a second, my top three in no particular order:

Charles (Earl) Grey - abolished slavery throughout the Empire and fought it abroad. From a humanitarian perspective that's a tough act to follow.

Clement Atlee - Founded the NHS, cemented modern alliance with the US.

Winston Churchill - saved the country.

I don't see anyone in British politics today who could hold a candle to any of the above.

Carry on.

[tonyh29]

I believe you are referring to the bbc polls which were for the 'greatest' PM

no i wasn't .. I was referring to various polls and opinions .. you have google on your PC so you can see it for yourself :-)

I see you fall in the Thatch is to blame camp though .. that the country is bankrupt is not down to Thatcher , more the former Chancellor of the exchequer as is well documented .. When you locate google on your PC , do some searching on Gilts and Britain's debt position .. Brown dooming us further ..sorry I meant Thatcher not Brown ,of course

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Saw a guy in a t-shirt yesterday saying 'I still hate Maggie Thatcher'

She isn't loved in these parts, that's for sure

Bit sad holding a grudge with an ol' lady though, mind.

[mjmooney]

Saw a guy in a t-shirt yesterday saying 'I still hate Maggie Thatcher'

She isn't loved in these parts, that's for sure

Bit sad holding a grudge with an ol' lady though, mind.

Call me said then. I'll be celebrating when she finally drops off the perch.