Genie Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, villa4europe said: What do you actually do for a living now Rob? Marketing for Sainsbury's bakery. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted August 18, 2020 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2020 43 minutes ago, villa4europe said: What do you actually do for a living now Rob? I set up a design agency in 2016 with my business partner Craig. We work with brands like Belstaff, Adidas, McLaren Automotive and Warner Bros and also a handful of elite manufacturers. We've got a virtual set-up, so Craig and I work from home and we hire in other freelancers depending on the needs of a project, so for example we've done regular sportswear through to protective headwear for kids with epilepsy. You can see more of what we do here - https://hellospark.agency/ 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 16 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: This is by far my most in-depth interview yet, covering everything from how I got into designing kits to spending a few minutes at the end shithousing Small Heath. Worst case it's help you drop off into a deep sleep. I'm on nights tonight so will pick this up. Something to help pass the time. Although, hopefully not do the highlighted bit... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 On 15/08/2020 at 22:31, snowychap said: I'd assume so, Dem. It was about statutory holiday not contractual holiday. I think it was announced at the end of March. How/whether it made it in to legislation (surely they weren't lying!), I don't know. I can have a look at the link for you. Edit: This is the Gov announcement - And this is a commentary on it by a legal firm: So it looks like they did amend the regulations. It very much depends on your role though. My company has not really had any barriers to taking annual leave other than people havent really wanted to. They announced early on that no additional leave could be carried over (were allowed 5 days with discretion) and plenty of opportunity to take it in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: It very much depends on your role though. Well, it doesn't really, I don't think. The leave entitlement I was referring to in my post (and the link) is statutory and the government have temporarily amended the working time regulations as per the details in that link to the Gov announcement: Quote 1. The Working Time Regulations 1998 convey a range of health and safety protections on workers, including daily and weekly rest breaks and paid statutory annual leave. Annual leave is granted by regulations 13 and 13A of the Working Time Regulations 1998, giving 4 weeks and 1.6 weeks of annual leave respectively. 2. The 4 weeks of annual leave granted by regulation 13 cannot generally be carried between leave years, with exceptions when a worker cannot take annual leave due to sickness or maternity leave. The 1.6 weeks of annual leave granted by regulation 13A can be carried forward one leave year (but no further) through an agreement between workers and their employers. 3. There is an obligation on an employer to ensure that their workers have an adequate opportunity to take their holiday. This holiday cannot be replaced with a payment in lieu unless the worker is leaving employment. 4. The Working Time (Coronavirus) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 amends the Working Time Regulations 1998 to create a further exemption relating specifically to COVID-19. Where it is not reasonably practicable for a worker to take some, or all, of the holiday to which they are entitled due to the coronavirus, they have a right to carry the 4 weeks under regulation 13 into the next 2 leave years. This will not apply to the 1.6 weeks under regulation 13A leave, but this can be carried forward one year by agreement between workers and employers. ...more So, there was some employer discretion regarding 1.6 weeks of statutory entitlement (but that only extended to a year) and that continues to apply. There is now also a right (where it is not reasonably practical for them to take the leave) for a worker to carry over the 4 weeks of the leave under reg 13 in to the next 2 leave years. Contractual leave obligations over and above statutory entitlement will be purely a matter for employer and worker, I'd have thought - so aren't covered by this. Edited August 19, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: Well, it doesn't really, I don't think. Statutory leave entitlement is statutory and the government have temporarily amended the working time regulations as per the details in the link to the Gov announcement: So, there was some employer discretion regarding 1.6 weeks of statutory entitlement (but that only extended to a year) and that continues to apply. There is now also a right (where it is not reasonably practical for them to take the leave) for a worker to carry over the 4 weeks of the leave under reg 13 in to the next 2 leave years. Contractual leave obligations over and above statutory entitlement will be purely a matter for employer and worker, I'd have thought - so aren't covered by this. but the extension only relates to industries impacted by COVID right and the carry over only applies if you have not had the opportunity to carry it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: but the extension only relates to industries impacted by COVID right and the carry over only applies if you have not had the opportunity to carry it over As far as I can see, it doesn't say anything about 'industries impacted by COVID' (which 'industries' haven't been impacted?). On that basis, I think that the former is incorrect and the latter is correct to some degree (as it says in the link - 'where it is not reasonably practical for them to take the leave'). Edit: Yes, the blurb says stuff like Quote The changes will also ensure all employers affected by COVID-19 have the flexibility to allow workers to carry over leave at a time when granting annual leave could leave them short-staffed in some of Britain’s key industries, such as food and healthcare which might give the impression that it is limited only to certain industries but the important thing is to read what the amendments to the regulations say (and what other parts of the announcement say*) and not what the politicians' spin puts on that. * i.e.: Quote The changes will amend the Working Time Regulations, which apply to almost all workers, including agency workers, those who work irregular hours, and workers on zero-hours contracts. and Quote 7. All workers are subject to the Working Time Regulations 1998 unless they are subject to a different set of regulations. The Working Time Regulations 1998 do not apply to: workers covered by the Merchant Shipping (Hours of Work) Regulations 2002 workers covered by the Fishing Vessels (Working Time: Sea-fishermen) Regulations 2004 workers covered by the Merchant Shipping (Working Time: Inland Waterways) Regulations 2003 8. Furthermore, the regulations giving a right to paid annual leave do not apply to: where characteristics peculiar to certain specific services such as the armed forces, or to certain specific activities in the civil protection services conflict with the regulations workers covered by the Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004 the activities of workers who are doctors in training link Edited August 19, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Just now, snowychap said: As far as I can see, it doesn't say anything about 'industries impacted by COVID' (which 'industries' haven't been impacted?). On that basis, I think that the former is incorrect and the latter is correct to some degree (as it says in the link - 'where it is not reasonably practical for them to take the leave'). ha, im not really sure what were debating here. in my industry, its been practical for everyone to take leave therefor no requirement to carry over. What we are finding is that a lot of people dont want to take it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, cheltenham_villa said: ha, im not really sure what were debating here. in my industry, its been practical for everyone to take leave therefor no requirement to carry over. What we are finding is that a lot of people dont want to take it. Our office is similar. We don’t want people stock piling leave. We also don’t want them going anywhere that risks undue exposure to covid or the need to self isolate on return. What that message then morphs in to, is whilst working from home, why not take some annual leave, but don’t go anywhere, have a staycation. It’s a hard sell to persuade people working from home to holiday at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: ha, im not really sure what were debating here. in my industry, its been practical for everyone to take leave therefor no requirement to carry over. What we are finding is that a lot of people dont want to take it. Well, obviously people not wanting to take it is not covered but you can't really say something like 'in my industry, it's been practical for everyone to take leave' because it may not have been for particular individuals or for some specific companies and in those cases, where it has not been reasonably practical for workers to take that leave, they now have a right to carry that leave over and that appears not to be at the discretion of their employers as it wouldn't be a right of the worker. The amendments also confer benefits on employers such that it looks like they won't be penalised for not ensuring that people take their statutory holiday under reg 13.* The initial point is that this isn't dependent upon someone's role. It is dependent upon an individual's circumstances, i.e. if they qualify (not reasonably practical to...) then they have the right to carry over 4 weeks of statutory annual leave for the next two leave years and that is not something that they were permitted by law to do without the amendment. *Edit: This would cover the kind of situation where a particular department or particular team or even company were badly hit by circumstances (such as a lot of people self-isolating or being ill or shielding or being on furlough) which meant that some of the people were not able to take leave because they were required to pretty much work through the period up to now since the beginning of the lockdown period without any opportunity for annual leave. One therefore can't look at it industry-wide and say that it wouldn't apply and, indeed, the regulations and the amendments don't appear to do that (this doesn't speak for those areas where these regs don't apply anyway, obviously). Edited August 19, 2020 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Just now, chrisp65 said: Our office is similar. We don’t want people stock piling leave. We also don’t want them going anywhere that risks undue exposure to covid or the need to self isolate on return. What that message then morphs in to, is whilst working from home, why not take some annual leave, but don’t go anywhere, have a staycation. It’s a hard sell to persuade people working from home to holiday at home. its definitely weird, i dont see myself returning to an office though so ive got to get used to it. Im fortunate enough to have an office at home and enjoy nothing more than closing the door for a week to do nothing in a different room in the house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, snowychap said: Well, obviously people not wanting to take it is not covered but you can't really say something like 'in my industry, it's been practical for everyone to take leave' because it may not have been for particular individuals or for some specific companies and in those cases, where it has not been reasonably practical for workers to take that leave, they now have a right to carry that leave over and that appears not to be at the discretion of their employers as it wouldn't be a right of the worker. The amendments also confer benefits on employers such that it looks like they won't be penalised for not ensuring that people take their statutory holiday under reg 13. The initial point is that this isn't dependent upon someone's role. It is dependent upon an individual's circumstances, i.e. if they qualify (not reasonably practical to...) then they have the right to carry over 4 weeks of statutory annual leave for the next two leave years and that is not something that they were permitted by law to do without the amendment. i think i follow (im fairly sure im in agreement) just trying to highlight how people incorrectly interpret these guidelines. I've seen very few examples myself where people were not able to take annual leave. Ive seen lots of example where people havent wanted to or were happy not to. I work in Banking, as an industry i find it very unlikely that any role was not afforded sufficient annual leave. Id concede some roles would have been more difficult initially but weve been living with this for 5 months and people had adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Yep, 3 weeks time nipper No 2 goes to Uni and I’ll have a new home office location, white walls, white floor, white desk, giant window overlooking the back garden. Can’t wait for the home office upgrade! Obviously, I’ll be sad the baby has finally left the nest. But I’ve bought new daylight lighting and desk speakers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: i think i follow (im fairly sure im in agreement) just trying to highlight how people incorrectly interpret these guidelines. I've seen very few examples myself where people were not able to take annual leave. Ive seen lots of example where people havent wanted to or were happy not to. I work in Banking, as an industry i find it very unlikely that any role was not afforded sufficient annual leave. Id concede some roles would have been more difficult initially but weve been living with this for 5 months and people had adjusted. They aren't 'guidelines', they are regulations which are law. I know of two people (working in different areas - one a solicitor and one a contracts manager for a travel firm) who have not, until very recently, been able to take any leave since the middle of March for different reasons, one due to long term illness in a department such that there was no other cover for the work, and the other due to the large number of people put on furlough, and thus no one else to cover that work. It has not been reasonably practical for them to take (more than the odd half day of) annual leave in that time. Depending upon when their leave year ends, this may well put them in a situation where, normally, they'd be in danger of losing some of their statutory 4 weeks and the company may well have been looking at some sort of penalty (I don't know what these amount to but they are referred to in the link to the Gov webpage). There will be many other ways in which similar circumstances may have arisen where, even if one works in a particular industry and one thinks that it doesn't obviously apply, it may well apply and that's the point. Yes, it may be 'unlikely' as in it may not be the norm but it is a possibility for all sorts of reasons and thus this amendment covers (some of those) possibilities with benefits accruing to both employers and workers. It's not about 'any role not afforded sufficient annual leave', it is about the legal possibilities that surround the carrying over of 4 weeks of statutory leave. Edited August 19, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Yep, 3 weeks time nipper No 2 goes to Uni and I’ll have a new home office location, white walls, white floor, white desk, giant window overlooking the back garden. Can’t wait for the home office upgrade! Obviously, I’ll be sad the baby has finally left the nest. But I’ve bought new daylight lighting and desk speakers! i was fortunate that i was already working from home 1-2 days per week so id invested in a good working environment. large desk, decent chair, good lighting, multiple monitors. work with so many people that were not set up to work from home and i really felt for them. A lot of my work is with India, you really got an insight into difficult working conditions talking to these guys on regular basis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: i was fortunate that i was already working from home 1-2 days per week so id invested in a good working environment. large desk, decent chair, good lighting, multiple monitors. work with so many people that were not set up to work from home and i really felt for them. A lot of my work is with India, you really got an insight into difficult working conditions talking to these guys on regular basis. I’ve worked with Indian people her in the UK and also Indian suppliers. I’ve no idea how they get things done, everything is so chaotic. I need to have a lie down and listen to whale sounds after every call. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Yep, 3 weeks time nipper No 2 goes to Uni and I’ll have a new home office location, white walls, white floor, white desk, giant window overlooking the back garden. Can’t wait for the home office upgrade! Obviously, I’ll be sad the baby has finally left the nest. But I’ve bought new daylight lighting and desk speakers! You're not the reincarnation of you know who, are you ? Edited August 19, 2020 by mottaloo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, mottaloo said: You're not the reincarnation of: It was me that put the White in Barry 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Genie said: I’ve worked with Indian people her in the UK and also Indian suppliers. I’ve no idea how they get things done, everything is so chaotic. I need to have a lie down and listen to whale sounds after every call. If ever you want to borrow some ambient sperm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It was me that put the White in Barry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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