joey55 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I think the trouble is that in my opinion, you are doing what fans of nearly every club do, which is that they judge a manager, not against other managers, but against some ideal of what they want to see a manager do. Fans almost assume that a different manager would also recognise and fix what they deem the problems to be. Every fault you list for MON may or may not be right, but equally given the restrictions found at Villa, it's likely that nearly every other top manager would have an equally long or even longer list of different failings. That to me is the key point and so often ignored. It's a classic case of having a 5 and wanting to roll again to get a 6, but it's 4 times as likely you'll end up with worse than the 5 you already had. Fans often assume that a replacement would get everything their manager got right equally right and at the same time correct his faults, but in reallity that is hardly ever the case. In the same way you are ranting about MONs subs, you'd more than likely have even more issue's to rant over if Ancelotti, or some other over hyped foreigner, had to operate under the restrictions he'd have at Villa. Spending £90 million for Villa just isn't the same as spending a similar amount for say Liverpool or Chelsea. You just don't get as much for your money, as wages and just as importantly, prestige play a major part of what clubs players want to join. In truth Villa have never had the pull of even Spurs and we paid even less wages than Villa did during the MON period. I think to assume that there are better quality mangers out there who could have done better with the money is a bit naive. As i've said before there are rare occassion when for some reason a manger and club meet at the right time and everything clicks, but this happens so in frequently. When not spending great amounts the likes of Mourinho and Benitez bought some awful shit to their clubs and there is no reason to assume they wouldn't do the same at Villa. It's true Harry has a low net spend, but that ignores four hugely important factors. Firstly the squad he inherited had a lot of resale value in it. That in itself is going to have a huge impact on net spend. Did the Villa squad MON took over have much value and therefore was he able to recoup much in the transher market? Secondly, the squad had a lot of talent in it that he was able to develop, which means he didn't need to go into the transer market, or rather couldn't find better players within our price range. Again I don't think this was true of the Villa squad. We might have been bottom of the league when Harry took over, but the talent was there. Thirdly, Daniel Levy shits on anyone at Villa when it comes to running the financial side of things, including the buying and selling of players. Fourthly, part of the reason Harrys net spend has been so low, is due to recent widnow transfer activity. But this includes a lot of free transfers and signings of older players on high wages and thus the wage bill has increased 50%. So spending has gone up in order for us to progress. It's still nowhere near the level of our rivals, so Harry is still the top manager around in my opinion, but the net spend figure is very misleading. In my opinion the way managers are judged in football is close to absurd. So many people seem judge their acheivments as if they were all playing off a level playing field. Also they are judged as if the path to the top is the same for all of them. Hence we get so much foreign shit sent over here on absurdly large wages, whilst the likes of MON and Redknapp get ignored for the big jobs for most of their careers. A manger is just part of the reason a club is successful. A coach, as is often the case in Europe, is even (significantly) less of a reason a club is successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 This is a great debate with good points (and a civil tone). Surprised to see it at Villatalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 18, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2012 This is a great debate with good points (and a civil tone). Surprised to see it at Villatalk. Redknapp is a cunting twatface There, fixed it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I've heard from a friend that Harry has agreed to take the England job He knows Jamie R and heard it through him ... Would have to assume its reliable this friend of mine isn't usually into wind ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Harry is an awful tactician as proved against big teams this season and again on sunday. Good motivator though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 but the net spend figure is very misleading. It really is. I think its used soley because mon's net spend is high and that figure can be used as a negative. You make some excellent points joey and i agree with the majority you say on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey55 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Harry is an awful tactician as proved against big teams this season and again on sunday. Good motivator though That's just not true. If Harry's a bad tactician then so are all the top managers. You can hardly blame him for the thumping we got against City at the start of the season. Other than that its just the Arsenal game in which we've been poor. But Arsenal got thumped by Utd and Milan. We smashed Liverpool, yet they beat Asenal. Chelsea beat City, yet got hit for 5 against Arsenal. Newcastle beat Utd 3-0 and then lost 5-0 to us. Everytime a team doesn't perform fabs seem to think it's down to tactics. I thought we were second best all over the pitch on Sunday and everyone was making silly mistakes. If we'd kept it at 2-0 until half time I think we'd have goone on to win and everyone would be saying Harry got it tactically right, just as Gary Neville was saying up until the point Arsenal scored. In my opinion the Arsenal players just performed much better than ours. Not one of our players had a good game really, whilsy several of Arsenals did. It's easy to blme tactics, but no matter what formation or instructions the manager gives, they are uselss if your players are in the sort of form BAE, Adebayor, Kranjcar, King, Bale, Sandro, Walker and VDV were on Sunday. A simple example of why it's hard to pinpoint the failure being due to tactics would be the Sandro substitution. It's obvious that he was brought on the tightedn up in midfield and protect the defence. Harry even said so afterwards. Yet did you see him do anything of the sort? He spent half his time charging forward or passing to Arsenal players. That really isn't a tactical error. Likewise was BAE's performance down to tactics or Bales inability penetrate. I seriously doubt Harry instructed the slow Kranjacr to try dribbling out of defence! Our players just aren't as good as most are making out. Our squad is nowhere near as good as most are making out. There is a reason we were 6th favourites in the betting at the start of the season. We are over achieving and every now and again the top sides will put us in our place. However, we can still finish above the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea by being more consistent against the other 14 teams. They seem more likely get caught out against lesser teams than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 When not spending great amounts the likes of Mourinho and Benitez bought some awful shit to their clubs and there is no reason to assume they wouldn't do the same at Villa. But MON bought more awful shit than these two ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 When not spending great amounts the likes of Mourinho and Benitez bought some awful shit to their clubs and there is no reason to assume they wouldn't do the same at Villa. But MON bought more awful shit than these two ever did. I suggest you have a closer look at Benitez's transfer record! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 11, 2012 Title challenge over Harry you miserable saggy faced ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Title challenge over Harry you miserable saggy faced ****. That was over when they lost at Man City, if they were ever seriously in one. They in danger of slipping out of the top 4 if this form keeps up. They had a slump at this point last season as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HongKongVillan Posted March 11, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2012 Nice to see arry losing it on Motd. I really thought after his court case and the dilemma of the England Job he would get his spuds up for it for the rest of the season, if only he could managed to come out from day one to say he is sticking by spuds. But I guess that £££ is in the way of things and hence no England job as yet and his spuds team in limbo of what he is doing. All his own downfall due to £££? Also nice of Motd mentioning to so called gentlement agreement of not having Saha involved in the everton game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 11, 2012 Watching Harry behaving like a complete dick on MOTD, you do have to wonder how he'll cope with the England job - I know he's a media darling, and he's everybody's best friend when things are going well, but he's a nightmare when he has to face the slightest bit of criticism and...well that's what the England job is. I hope he gets it and I hope in a year and a half's time he's hated for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I can not watch MOTD where I am. Can someone tell me what happened with Harry Redknapp. What did he do or say and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I can not watch MOTD where I am. Can someone tell me what happened with Harry Redknapp. What did he do or say and why? He pulled this face: And I can't remember really what was asked but he got a bit touchy about everything. rocket polisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 ^ He didnt do much wrong there to be honest. Just a bit annoyed at the result and straight after a game the adrenaline is still running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 11, 2012 It was that face, only slightly less symmetrical I totally agree with what OBE says above, if he gets the England job I will take great pleasure in watching him realise he is no longer a media darling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 That interview is absolutely hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Its going to go down to the last day again. I will be back in England by then. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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