Petrov - can he play in a 4-4-2?

[HJ]

Hull was a prime example of this IMO when they came back into it later on and could have made it 2-1 and squeeky bum time if the shot that hit the post/bar had gone in.

The Bolton game, where Stan didn't play, was the first time I have seen us dominate a side that convincingly for a long time and there was, again IMO, no let up later on in that game.

The Bolton game was when the opponent actually got back into it and made it 2-1, in real life not in some fantasy what-if situation, as opposed to almost getting back into it and almost making it 2-1. Hull had 0 shots on target, Bolton had 6.

[Chindie]

Oh, we only won because they were shite? rubbish.

Not nearly as rubbish as suggesting that game is evidence without question that Petrov is not capable in a 442.

I say it alot on here, correlation does not imply causation. The fact of the matter is, with a football match, it's impossible to simply state what's being stated here because of the immense amount of variables inherent in a match, stats almost inevitably mean nothing, though if we didn't use them our arguments on here would be quite short lived.

We won at Bolton because their defence was dire, Carew had a good game for once, etc etc. Petrov not playing had almost no bearing.

We seem to have got to the point that some must see that Petrov is crap in a 442 and 451 is the be all and end all. I'm sorry, it's not. Blandy put a good argument forth a week or so ago for why 451 is not the only answer, I'm afraid I can't be bothered to look for it. Petrov can play in a 442, he often does and we generally do fairly well. Now we seem to have finally hit on the desired style of our team with Downing come in, I think we may see this go from strength to strength.

[Gringo]

Petrov can be important in making this new set up work. Was fine against Hull.

[Big_John_10]

Hull was a prime example of this IMO when they came back into it later on and could have made it 2-1 and squeeky bum time if the shot that hit the post/bar had gone in.

What a load of rubbish, Hull have one shot all game that comes close and that's proof that petrov was tired and lets us down in a 4-4-2. You don't demand much do you, should teams never ever have a chance against us? Are we that good and the premiership is that weak that week in week out we can just demand to dominate teams so they don't even have a chance.

Petrov has been fine and we look even better now that petrov has someone else in the middle who can actually play with the ball at their feet.

Semi final, 5th in the league, 1 point off 4th spot, stan in a 4-4-2 is ok by me.

[Edinburgh-Villa]

Just wondering how we are all feeling about this after the last couple of months performances including a poor run away from home?

Personally I feel that he has been poor in a 4-4-2 away from Villa Park and has done little to drive the team on (as you would expect from a skipper in CM) - and I would prefer to see us play 4-5-1 with NRC in there as well - and has been good for the first half of of home games but lacking in the second half as he tires. Hull was a prime example of this IMO when they came back into it later on and could have made it 2-1 and squeeky bum time if the shot that hit the post/bar had gone in. The Bolton game, where Stan didn't play, was the first time I have seen us dominate a side that convincingly for a long time and there was, again IMO, no let up later on in that game.

I still think the stats are telling:

4-4-2 with Stan since mid Jan circa 32 points from 27 games

4-5-1 30 points from 10 games over the last 18 months or so (and mostly away games)

4-4-2 without Stan this year shows 3 points from 1 game, admittedly a small sample

You know what I think on this subject so no need to get into one.

However, again I think the stats are fitting your argument. You could go back over the same games using Friedel or Ashley Young for example and pretty much get the same results so they in no way prove a point IMO.

Anyway, I think or midfield 4 has looked pretty decent in the past two outings and the Downing, Petrov, Milner & Young combo is the way forward IMO, for now.

I seem to remeber Petrov having a bit of a blinder against Man U last year (think it was the OT game). I think that NRC could quite easily have a real stinker against them and I wouldn't risk it.

[Big_John_10]

4-4-2 with Stan since mid Jan circa 32 points from 27 games

During our bad run last season there were many other factors than just petrov in a 4-4-2 so i don't think these stats add much to the argument. If you truly believe it was all down to petrov then i think your hatred of him is clouding your judgement.

[sled]

He hates him doesn't he!

[Edinburgh-Villa]

Oh, we only won because they were shite? rubbish.

Not quite as "rubbish" as suggesting we should replace Carew with Zamora.

[bickster]

Posts are beginning to border on the lacking respect for the other poster so can we keep it civil please :nod:

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Maybe at home, but he should come off after 60 minutes when evidently he is nackered.

Away from home, I don't think anyone can argue 4-4-2 with Petrov in is the way forward, the sooner we go 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 the better.

[avfc456]

Maybe at home, but he should come off after 60 minutes when evidently he is nackered.

Away from home, I don't think anyone can argue 4-4-2 with Petrov in is the way forward, the sooner we go 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 the better.

Think your bang on there

[bickster]

Maybe at home, but he should come off after 60 minutes when evidently he is nackered.

Away from home, I don't think anyone can argue 4-4-2 with Petrov in is the way forward, the sooner we go 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 the better.

I think you'll find there are plenty that disagree with such nonsense.

Here's a related question though, why is it that the people who think that 4-5-1 (or whichever way you want to call the one man upfront formation we sometimes have to play) is good also think that we sit back on small leads too much and why do you think that is? One wouldn't be a product of the other would it by any chance?

[avfc89]

Oh, we only won because they were shite? rubbish.

Not nearly as rubbish as suggesting that game is evidence without question that Petrov is not capable in a 442.

I say it alot on here, correlation does not imply causation. The fact of the matter is, with a football match, it's impossible to simply state what's being stated here because of the immense amount of variables inherent in a match, stats almost inevitably mean nothing, though if we didn't use them our arguments on here would be quite short lived.

We won at Bolton because their defence was dire, Carew had a good game for once, etc etc. Petrov not playing had almost no bearing.

We seem to have got to the point that some must see that Petrov is crap in a 442 and 451 is the be all and end all. I'm sorry, it's not. Blandy put a good argument forth a week or so ago for why 451 is not the only answer, I'm afraid I can't be bothered to look for it. Petrov can play in a 442, he often does and we generally do fairly well. Now we seem to have finally hit on the desired style of our team with Downing come in, I think we may see this go from strength to strength.

I'm sorry Chindie, NRC and Sidwell were both good that game and they did deserve to play against Burnley. Petrov is playing well at the moment, but he is awful next to Sidwell and vice versa.

[blandy]

One of the things people have said is about Stan fading later on in games. I don't know that I've really noticed this, but it is the case that if we're not chasing the ball so much, then it's less workload. - one of the key things for me, then, is our ability to retain the ball. We've started, in recent games, to do that much better. Stan Petrov is crucial in this, in that he generally does keep possession, as does James Milner, who's been absolutely excellent in centre mid (I admit that I didn't think he would be anything like as effective as he has been, in midfield).

Stan in a 4-4-2 is fine, as long as he's playing well and has the right partner in the centre. Same as you'd say for any decent international midfielder really. For me neither NRC or Sidwell are as good in terms of their quality on the ball.

[redrum]

petrov = average

sidwell = below average

reo-coker = average (would be world class if he had some ball retention and passing skills)

gardner = average

delph = not 2 sure on him at the mo

its clear , that our centre midfield is our weakest point.

milner will be very good here

so a new quality CM or 2 should be our num 1 addition(s) in the not too distant future

[avfc89]

Oh, we only won because they were shite? rubbish.

Not quite as "rubbish" as suggesting we should replace Carew with Zamora.

I never said that bud, I said he wouldn't be a bad buy for us. I want Carew to stay.

[avfc89]

For me neither NRC or Sidwell are as good in terms of their quality on the ball.

I disagree Blandy about Sidwell. Sidwell has great footballing ability, I think he has more ability than Petrov, I remember Sidwell at Reading and he was awesome, he tore us apart in the away game. It's just how we play at Villa, we are very direct and use the wings more than the CMs. NRC is more suited for us IMO.

[markavfc40]

I personally think Stan plays just as well in a 4-4-2 as he does in a 4-5-1 ( or 4-3-3 ). Its the people that play alongside that have been the problem in a 4-4-2, that is until Milner has played alongside him in the last couple of games.

I haven't seen any difference in Stans performances no matter what formation we have played. He always puts himself about, breaks up play well and never seems to give the ball away even if its just to play simple passes. I also haven't noticed him continually being knackered towards the end of games although if on the odd occasions this is the case it would be down to the amount of work he puts in. I can't think of many games in the past 20 odd months that Stan hasn't been constantly involved in the games throughout the 90mins.

As our squad stands today if we are going to play 4-4-2 then Stan as to be one of the players in centre midfield. One game against Bolton when he didn't play isn't going to change my opinion on that as I believe we won that game so comfortably with Sidwell and NRC in centre midfield despite that partnership not because of it. An on form Carew and Ashley Young were far more influential in that game.

[briny_ear]

Petrov is the best midfielder we have by a mile. For me, his name should go on the team sheet for every game, whatever the formation, as long as he is fit.

[sled]

And he never upsets MON either!