The Film Thread

[kurtsimonw]

Watched it again today, think it improved with a second viewing.

Mad Max trailer is hilarious, makes Transformers look like Oscars bait. There's absolutely nothing in the trailer beyond explosions.

Lolz.

I almost guarantee the new Mad Max will be on a different planet compared to Transformers, unless you consider all other George Miller films similar? I.e the other mad max and babe films?

Never seen them, I was talking about the trailer.

[Zatman]

Women in Gold was quite good. a buddy comedy mixed with Schindlers List and Ryan Reynolds is surprisingly good in it

[Chindie]

By all accounts the new Mad Max should be one of the films of the year.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Women in Gold was quite good. a buddy comedy mixed with Schindlers List and Ryan Reynolds is surprisingly good in it

 

I'm not sure which part of that sentence threw me more.

[coda]

Mad Max better have a man in a wee helicopter.

[Meath_Villan]

The impossible ...I didn't want to watch it but glad I did ...really tough emotional film and I'd admit the eyes were welling up when they all found each other .....7.5/10

[smetrov]

The impossible ...I didn't want to watch it but glad I did ...really tough emotional film and I'd admit the eyes were welling up when they all found each other .....7.5/10

 

Apart from the opening scene - i thought it was rubbish .......the bit with the football was cringeworthy in the extreme !

[darrenm]

As expected, got to see Age of Ultron (or, more correctly in the UK, Marvel Avengers: Age of Ultron) the other day.

The film opens with a very Bond-esque cold open action scene, the Avengers all teamed up to assault a fort-come-castle in a winter-y forest. Straight into the action, we discover this is the Avengers looking to secure Loki's sceptre from the first film, which, as we know from the stinger at the end of Captain America: The Winter Soldier last year, has fallen into the hands of remnants of Hydra, who are off doing Bad Things with it. A frenetic scene, including a fantastic call back to the brilliant 'one shot Avengers at work' scene from the climax of the first film, as we jump from character to character as they work together to break through Hydra's lines and take the fort. It sets the tone for what is to come - overblown action, one liners, comedy quick repartee, and immediately sets to rest any fears that this film is going to have to assemble the team again before it gets going. We are also introduced to the new players in town, the Maximoff twins - Elizabeth Olsen's Scarlet Witch and Aaron Taylor-Johnson's Ouicksilver, working with Hydra and the subject of experimentation that has seen them acquire superhuman abilities. Quicksilver has the gift of extraordinary speed (many will recognise the character from a different take in last years XMen: Days of Future Past - a quirk of rights issues means that both these characters can appear in both franchises, although another quirk means in this film the characters can't be quite true to their comic origins), and Scarlet Witch the power of telekinesis and mind manipulation,making both potentially significant enemies of the established Avengers.

 

As expected, the Avengers secure the staff and discover there is more to it than meets the eye - Tony Stark discovers it may hold the key to developing true AI, and therefore the key to retiring the need for the Avengers from here on in. Stark pushes ahead, and unbeknownst to him accidentally creates an AI, dubbed Ultron... which quickly goes rogue and represents a significant new threat to the human race that requires the Avengers to suit up and span the globe to discover Ultron, and shut him and his plans down. What follows is a frantic, breakneck paced film, 2 hours 20 of action scenes, comedy, great special effects and all round fun.

 

The film tries to do a lot with what it has. Joss was clearly conscious that we have characters that haven't had the opportunity to develop much - Hawkeye, Ruffalo's Bruce Banner, Black Widow - and attempts to rectify this, with a palpable sense that Iron Man, Thor and Captain America get pushed backwards in the movies' focus. Hawkeye benefits most, having been last seen in the first Avengers movie and spending most of it as mind controlled villain, in this film he is given some room to shine, gets some cracking lines (his self deprecating pleading that someone understands the situation they are in and the tools he has to deal with it in the finale being a highlight), but the others are given some more depth as well. Black Widow gets some back story as well as trying to push her into a more 3 dimensional character that I'm not sure the film earns in truth. We also have the addition of the Twins, characters with immense weight in the established comic canon, who needed to be set up, a whole new villain, amongst some others. It means the film has a slight feeling of being over stuffed, and it rattles through things  at a riproaring pace, probably to the films detriment. There barely moments to breathe, where there are they feel indulgent. The early party scene where the Avengers celebrate securing the sceptre and lay some groundwork for later developments feels a little long, and elsewhere there is the distinct feeling that the film wasn't so much edited with precision as it had an axe taken to it in the editing suite and was put out in the version that best hung together without going over 140 minutes. Rumour has it Whedon's initial cut was over 3 hours, and it feels it, and already Amazon is advertising the home media release as featuring an extended cut and alternative ending. I found myself watching feeling like I was often missing the vital final detail of what was going on - I could still follow the film, but it felt like I was holding on for the ride rather than engaged directly in the plot at times. A very odd feeling, and I do wonder whether it was more me being tired than the film's failing. Ultron's final plot felt more like a last minute desperate idea than a developed, established masterplan, for instance, and the film somewhat undersells it.

 

Everyone is on song in the cast. Downey Jr just knows this stuff now, he does excellent work adding a nuance to his Tony Stark, a man starting to get tired of all this and looking to cut his responsibility to the team (you have to wonder how much of a parallel this is to his own thoughts of the role - he's back for Civil War next year, itself nicely teased in his performance, but rumour has it Iron Man will not be the big presence in the next Avengers movies he has been previously). Chris Evans is a brilliant Steve Rogers, Ruffalo an excellent Banner, Hemsworth just is Thor these days (although again Whedon doesn't know what to do with him, even with a very half-baked sub-plot), Scarlett Johansson is superb... and so on. The Twins are well done enough, they don't get that much time to shine but they develop a personality, Taylor-Johnson's cock sure Quicksilver in particular. Saying that those accents are meerkat levels of dodgy. James Spader is an interesting take on Ultron. Ultron in the comics is always shown to be appropriately robotic but with some human traits (he hates his 'father', Hank Pym, for instance), but the Ultron we have here is more of a petulant teenager. There are moments he speaks like an arrogant undergrad who read some low level philosophy. Equally there are moments where he has a tantrum almost - a character compares him to Stark and he literally has a fist shaking rage, an immediate and visceral reaction that is quite disarming. It's a new take, and an interesting one. Sadly I just don't think they do much with it, and again I really feel like there's a lot of this character on the cutting room floor. He's still a good villain, but he could have been a great villain. He has an imposing presence and it's a good performance, one with laughs as well as violence, and theres some nuance to it. He also gets a cracking gag line in the finale that is probably this films 'Puny God', though not on the same scale by any means.

 

The plot finds plenty of time to foreshadow movies to come. I'm sure there are plenty more of these but there is considerable reference to where the Avengers franchise is headed (with Infinity War 1 and 2 to come), and there are definitely some character moments that nod towards the split on it's way next year between Stark and Cap. I've seen a lot of people hold this against the film, saying it feels like a filler setting up the future and less of it's own thing. I have to say I didn't feel that, if anything I could criticise the movie for perhaps being seemingly less ruthless with the set up stuff than it has been with it's own plot, but that's nitpicking. There's a whole scene that takes place in a location that will be quite important going forward, and it establishes a villain for a movie to come... Again, theres a far old whack of stuff going on here and its not the straight forward McGuffin powered story of the last movie.

 

The plot also plays with some themes and some tropes. The whole thing wants to play with the idea of the dangers of AI - we get a very Jurassic Park style conversation about 'You've not considered whether you should do this, only thinking about you could do it', and we see the danger of a mind that isn't necessarily tethered to a body. We get a distinct feeling that the Avengers team means different things to different characters - for Cap this is just his job, for Stark this is something he does because he almost has to, and it seems he really would rather not bother any longer. The film also plays up a trope we are very used to in a lot of movies, which it uses to good effect - I'd be interested to see how many people actually notice it, even subconsciously - I've seen a lot of people remark that they, however slightly, picked up on it, and that it subsequently surprised them when it comes to fruition.

 

Theres something that underpins it all though. It's not as special this time.

 

I love these films, unashamedly. In the run up to the release of Age of Ultron I ran through the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe once more - from Iron Man right up to the Guardians of the Galaxy - enjoying them all over again. Not all of them are great movies, or in some cases even good - Iron Man 2 is a holding title of a film, keeping things ticking over and ultimately not doing much, Norton's Incredible Hulk is nothing special, Iron Man 3 is an awkward addition that glimpses brilliance and just falls short. But all of them have moments that in some way redeem them - Iron Man 2 has the great Monte Carlo action scene with the Mark 5 suitcase suit, for instance. And in the middle of it all is the first Avengers film. It felt special, at the time, and it's retained that. It isn't perfect, the Helicarrier scene sags in the middle, it takes too long to get the team together, some people find Joss Whedon's signature snark filled dialogue grating or that it sits oddly with the other movies. But it felt special - we'd never seen this kind of thing before, and it was the culmination of 4 years build up, and there were those moments that stick in the mind or just show the sheer swagger of it all - that 'Avengers Assembled' panning shot, the 'Puny God' rag doll scene... I've watched it countless times and it remains a brilliant piece of entertainment.

Second time around, all the elements are there but it isn't as special. There are great action scenes, there are brilliant little gags (early on, keep an ear out for Tony Starks barely audible delight at finding a secret door, for instance), we get all the universe building we could want, we get some pay offs for other matters we've seen build till now. We see this incredible team working together and doing spectacular things. We get a good villain that embodies some real fears of today. But it isn't the first film. It's not as amazing. It doesn't feel as much of an event as last time. In some ways it ends on a fairly downbeat note. It has it's own feather-in-it's-cap moments like the 'Puny God' scene from the first, but none are as good or as iconic a moment. It's not as funny as the first, which in many ways was funnier than some comedies I've seen in recent years, despite constant one liners and banter, with a lot of lines being duds. It's funniest moments are often ones it almost throws away - Starks reaction above, Ultron's reaction to a moment in the finale... It has an emotional moment the film spends almost the entire running time foreshadowing and then does nothing with it as it has to run off to do something else. Compare it to something like the Coulson exit in the first film, which was actually surprisingly touching considering the character wasn't exactly a major one and it just seems very flat.

 

That leads to an immediate, walk out of the cinema reaction of 'disappointment'. I'd be lying if I said that wasn't my first reaction too. I expected a great deal of it and I got a lot of what I wanted and expected, but it lacked that extra shine that made the first one of my favourite pieces of entertainment. On reflection, despite that, it's still a cracking movie. It's just so much fun, it gives you great spectacle and things you never thought you'd see on screen (the Hulkbuster!), it is funny and it is confident in every element, and does give you some surprises and some new elements for things going forward. But it's not that special thing the first was. To me anyway. It probably doesn't help that there clearly is a different cut that could kick it all on the next step, give things a different pace and develop matters in some vital areas and add in that slightly missing sparkle.

 

If you love these movies, it's a no-brainer watch. If you like big blockbusters, it's a no-brainer. If you like action, and spectacle, again just go see it. If you don't, if you want more worthy fair, I'd give it a wide swerve because all you're going to do is build up that rant about the state of cinema these days again, because this film is not going to convince you to like this series if that which has gone before hasn't.

 

As a final line, there is a mid-credit stinger, and apparently no end credit one this time (this was true of the first, Whedon added a final gag for the US release, which is present on the Blu-ray, but on the UK release we got the Thanos moment and thats it). The stinger is a decent one, short and in the same vein as the first, setting up the movies to come rather than being a joke as they have been recently. It's probably worth hanging about for if you've any investment in the series so far, and the credits sequence is actually fairly short so you're not going to waiting long if you're dying for the loo by that point.

 

Excellent review and really helpful to me - thanks.

 

But please can you remove the apostrophes from possessive 'its'? They hurt my eyes as the rest of it reads so well

[lapal_fan]

I watched The Voices with Ryan Reynolds yesterday.. I thought it was a comedy?

 

Anyway, bit boring, pretty dark.

 

Anna Kendrick, so that makes it a cool 9.5/10

[villa4europe]

my problem with the avengers was the new characters and the end and how that fits in to the whole phase 3, a good portion of the film unfortunately felt like a set up for something that i found strangely uninteresting

 

the line up at the end, surely that wont be the line up going in to the infinity wars, its incredibly weak (not in terms of superheroes, i mean in terms of war machine, SW, vision and falcon all being really underdeveloped characters that wont sell 2 films) they've also taken hulk and hawkeye out of civil war, and maybe thor, IM will obviously be back but for the 1st time i felt like they'd spread themselves too thin, which seeing as i think civil war needs as many characters as possible in order to work worries me

 

thought it was very strange they didn't attach an ant man trailer to it at the start, that film is really going to struggle

[kurtsimonw]

I had both Ant-Man and Fantastic 4 trailers.

[Chindie]

my problem with the avengers was the new characters and the end and how that fits in to the whole phase 3, a good portion of the film unfortunately felt like a set up for something that i found strangely uninteresting

 

the line up at the end, surely that wont be the line up going in to the infinity wars, its incredibly weak (not in terms of superheroes, i mean in terms of war machine, SW, vision and falcon all being really underdeveloped characters that wont sell 2 films) they've also taken hulk and hawkeye out of civil war, and maybe thor, IM will obviously be back but for the 1st time i felt like they'd spread themselves too thin, which seeing as i think civil war needs as many characters as possible in order to work worries me

 

thought it was very strange they didn't attach an ant man trailer to it at the start, that film is really going to struggle

I can see where you're coming from, but

the team we have at the end isn't the team that will come together against Thanos in Infinity War. The team at the end is basically Caps team going forward as a kind of 'official' Avengers, and you can bet your bottom dollar they will form in part at least Caps 'side' of Civil War. I believe Hawkeye is also going to be in Civil War.

By the time Infinity War comes around, all the usual faces will be back, although rumour has it that Stark will take a slight backseat for those films and be less front line.

It's worth bearing in mind that Civil War is going to be nothing like the comic storyline, beyond the real basic foundations. It won't be on the same scale (it basically can't be) and it won't have much of the detail of the story as it stands either. I think some of the big story beats will be there, it's a decent bet Black Panther will take the Spiderman role, for instance. But it won't be the faithful adaptation we'd all like.

[maqroll]

25 years old!

 

[donnie]

Although the real Henry Hill was a lying piece of shit, without doubt this remains one of if not THE greatest film made in the last 25 years.

Edited April 27, 2015 by donnie

[villa4europe]

You can say that again

[wazzap24]

 

my problem with the avengers was the new characters and the end and how that fits in to the whole phase 3, a good portion of the film unfortunately felt like a set up for something that i found strangely uninteresting

 

the line up at the end, surely that wont be the line up going in to the infinity wars, its incredibly weak (not in terms of superheroes, i mean in terms of war machine, SW, vision and falcon all being really underdeveloped characters that wont sell 2 films) they've also taken hulk and hawkeye out of civil war, and maybe thor, IM will obviously be back but for the 1st time i felt like they'd spread themselves too thin, which seeing as i think civil war needs as many characters as possible in order to work worries me

 

thought it was very strange they didn't attach an ant man trailer to it at the start, that film is really going to struggle

I can see where you're coming from, but

the team we have at the end isn't the team that will come together against Thanos in Infinity War. The team at the end is basically Caps team going forward as a kind of 'official' Avengers, and you can bet your bottom dollar they will form in part at least Caps 'side' of Civil War. I believe Hawkeye is also going to be in Civil War.

By the time Infinity War comes around, all the usual faces will be back, although rumour has it that Stark will take a slight backseat for those films and be less front line.

It's worth bearing in mind that Civil War is going to be nothing like the comic storyline, beyond the real basic foundations. It won't be on the same scale (it basically can't be) and it won't have much of the detail of the story as it stands either. I think some of the big story beats will be there, it's a decent bet Black Panther will take the Spiderman role, for instance. But it won't be the faithful adaptation we'd all like.

 

 

The interesting bit now is how the upcoming films set up the various pieces for IW1&2. Ant man and Doctor Strange seem like odd ones out of the face of it, but I have a feeling both will play major parts in the buld to CAP 3 and IW. 

 

I think the next 3 movies - Ant Man, CAP 3 and DS will focus on the Civil War story, before GOTG 2 and Thor gets the build up towards IW going.  Where the Spiderman film fits in is hard to say, I think it's pretty much confirmed that he's in CAP 3, so who knows. 

 

Fwiw, I think the first IW will be Marvel's 'Empire'. I think the next few films lend to IW opening with the Avengers (and associates) separated and weakened for a variety of reasons.  Thanos will give them a kicking in part 1, Black Panther and Captain Marvel will help them get their shit back together (there's also an as yet untitled Marvel film scheduled at the same time as Black Panther too)  before it's all in for a massive intergalactic dust up in part 2.

 

Gonna be ace. 

[donnie]

Way to many nerds on this thread. No idea what you are talking about with this comic book shite.

[Ginko]

Probably should just ignore it like a normal, mature person then instead of making snide comments. No one is stopping you from talking about movies you want to talk about.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Ginko

[donnie]

Probably should just ignore it like a normal, mature person then instead of making snide comments. No one is stopping you from talking about movies you want to talk about.

It's impossible to ignore though. Any talk of non comic book related movies is lost amongst the endless posts of comic book related chat though.

Edited April 27, 2015 by donnie

[Brumerican]