magnkarl Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mister_a said: I think he can and should talk to whoever he wants to, and whoever wants to listen to it should be free to do so also. Not difficult to grasp really is it. I know it's hard to understand when your hero turns out to be a mysygonistic, racist purveyor of covid misinformation, and your only defense is that it's out of context and that everyone is free to not listen. Do you think him laughing with a man claiming he's forced 20 women to have sex with him also needs further context? Several countries have fairly strict laws on spreading misinformation in media, and spotify might be the target of claims from many governments. Edited February 8, 2022 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete101 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 12 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Before defending this you should know that the guy talking is a known KKK-right wing holocaust denier. Is it ok to give someone like that a platform of 200 million people? Yes who he debated and made look pretty silly, you have picked a clip that is edited/shorted that doesn't show his response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 8, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Rolta said: Your definition of a racist seems to be very specifically 'someone who shouted something racist in front of you.' That reminds me of the Viv Stanshall line - "how dare you belch in front of my wife" - "I'm sorry, I didn't know it was her turn" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Mister_a said: You make a fair point here. In that case, if you want to narrow it down, it is probably more about the people complaining and their double standards than Spotify. Its not really the same is it, which shows its a weak point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Just now, DCJonah said: Its not really the same is it, which shows its a weak point. Not really, it's still a point, I just badly phrased it originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, Mister_a said: I think he can and should talk to whoever he wants to, and whoever wants to listen to it should be free to do so also. Not difficult to grasp really is it. You've missed the part where it's broadcast to 200 million people. If Rogan wants to make a podcast and put it on his own website then fine. That's very different to being paid a large sum of money and being given a massive audience to spread this stuff to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, magnkarl said: I know it's hard to understand when your hero turns out to be a mysygonistic, racist purveyor of covid misinformation, and your only defense is that it's out of context and that everyone is free to not listen. Do you think him laughing with a man claiming he's forced 20 women to have sex with him also needs further context? Several countries have fairly strict laws on spreading misinformation in media, and spotify might be the target of claims from many governments. Nail. On. Head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Just now, DCJonah said: You've missed the part where it's broadcast to 200 million people. If Rogan wants to make a podcast and put it on his own website then fine. That's very different to being paid a large sum of money and being given a massive audience to spread this stuff to. I don't give a shit how many people it's broadcast to. If people get their medical advice from Joe Rogan then they are idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Just now, DCJonah said: Nail. On. Head. I disagree, but as there is no nuance in discussions anymore it's a rubbish gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 12 minutes ago, Mister_a said: I don't give a shit how many people it's broadcast to. If people get their medical advice from Joe Rogan then they are idiots. But do you not care because you like Joe Rogan? Or do you not care in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 13 minutes ago, DCJonah said: But do you not care because you like Joe Rogan? Or do you not care in general? Just generally. People should be careful where they get their information from, and try to have a wide range of sources to prevent bias. Censoring anyone for anything other than actual incitement to violence (and by violence i mean actual violence, not words) is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 It would be interesting to find out how many of the unvaccinated had their decision decided by listening to Joe Rogan. It is my impression that those resisting getting the vaccines, are contrarians, religious types and people who don't trust the government. Contrarians disagree with everyone, so it can't be them. Religious types follow their creed, so it can't be them. So it has to be those who don't trust the government, but what possible reason would they have to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: Contrarians disagree with everyone, so it can't be them. No they don't. (Sorry, couldn't resist). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 8, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: Contrarians disagree with everyone No we don't 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 8, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 minute ago, MakemineVanilla said: It would be interesting to find out how many of the unvaccinated had their decision decided by listening to Joe Rogan. It is my impression that those resisting getting the vaccines, are contrarians, religious types and people who don't trust the government. Contrarians disagree with everyone, so it can't be them. Religious types follow their creed, so it can't be them. So it has to be those who don't trust the government, but what possible reason would they have to do that? In the UK alone, I think the number will surprise you. Anecdotally, so the obvious caveats apply, I work with at least two people who are unvaccinated and are avid listeners of Rogan's podcasts, they are the only two people unvaxxed on our floor in the office. They will also tell you the reasons why they are unvaxxed and they pretty much come out with all the same arguments you'll find said on Rogan's show. They'll also tell you that it has helped them form their opinion. There may not be many in the older generations in the UK but the younger you get, I think the number may be quite illuminating. In the USA, I imagine that number to be much higher and in much more widespread age groups Just my impression of things though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Mister_a said: Censoring anyone for anything other than actual incitement to violence (and by violence i mean actual violence, not words) is a bad idea. It sounds an appealingly simple rule, but alas life is more complicated than this. I could walk out of my house right now and yell 'I DEMAND YOU ALL JOIN ME AS WE GO LONDON AND PUNCH KEIR STARMER'S HEAD IN' and, though it would clearly be 'inciting violence', not a single one of the people (mostly middle class young parents and pensioners) who live on my street would follow that instruction. On the other hand, someone recently did say something about Keir Starmer that really did lead to him being attacked by an angry mob, but that person was not directly 'inciting violence' and did so with parliamentary privilege. Violence comes largely not from instruction or incitement, but from an atmosphere of hate that is built over time. I don't think simple rules of thumb about free speech can really deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 22 minutes ago, bickster said: In the UK alone, I think the number will surprise you. Anecdotally, so the obvious caveats apply, I work with at least two people who are unvaccinated and are avid listeners of Rogan's podcasts, they are the only two people unvaxxed on our floor in the office. They will also tell you the reasons why they are unvaxxed and they pretty much come out with all the same arguments you'll find said on Rogan's show. They'll also tell you that it has helped them form their opinion. There may not be many in the older generations in the UK but the younger you get, I think the number may be quite illuminating. In the USA, I imagine that number to be much higher and in much more widespread age groups Just my impression of things though The only thing I would add to that, is that it is my belief that when it comes to newspapers and sources of information, people usually choose one which confirms their beliefs, rather than one that challenges them. The only exceptions I can recall, is that some political idealists I knew, back in the day, used to take both the Times and The Morning Star, to compare the contrasting view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said: It would be interesting to find out how many of the unvaccinated had their decision decided by listening to Joe Rogan. It is my impression that those resisting getting the vaccines, are contrarians, religious types and people who don't trust the government. Contrarians disagree with everyone, so it can't be them. Religious types follow their creed, so it can't be them. So it has to be those who don't trust the government, but what possible reason would they have to do that? Are you serious with this question? There has been distrust of the government in the US since it's inception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 8, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2022 33 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: The only thing I would add to that, is that it is my belief that when it comes to newspapers and sources of information, people usually choose one which confirms their beliefs, rather than one that challenges them. Absolutely, and with the interwebs, now, it's even more of an echo chamber. Facehole and Tittter and all them, they're all just echo chambers, especially politically, and they kind of have to be, because there's so much incivility, if that's the right word, where people just say and write angry horrible stuff, os you have to kind of clear out or block all those weapons or it's just dire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Mister_a said: Just generally. People should be careful where they get their information from, and try to have a wide range of sources to prevent bias. Censoring anyone for anything other than actual incitement to violence (and by violence i mean actual violence, not words) is a bad idea. Is it censoring? He's quite capable of producing and putting out his own show. He's just potentially being removed from a platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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