Ratings & Reactions: Everton v Villa

[Herman22]

8 hours ago, DJBOB said:

Shows how anti-football Everton were. One Diego Carlos brainless moment aside, they hardly threatened. 
 

 

 

Question for you! Why is there such a difference in xG from one site to another. This one says 0.99 to 1.82. Tells you Villa should’ve won the match. 

But then I see this website saying it’s 1.04 to 1.34 making it seem a lot more even. 

https://understat.com/match/22098

[6065_Villa]

Shit ref

Shit game

And our front 3 never looked like scoring which is the main concern right now.

 

[John]

I kept thinking that we would get the winner yesterday, but it wasn't to be and had it not been for Emi, we could have lost the game. It seems the referee has learnt nothing from his abysmal performance against Brentford and he was back to haunt us again yesterday. You could pick any referee from a parks pitch and he would do a better job than this idiot. 

We aren't going to win every game this season and we didn't win them all in 1980-81 either. The problem is that teams like Manchester City and Arsenal are capable of winning multiple games, that will pull them away from us, if we don't do much the same. A point was the very least that we deserved and Everton are a tough team to beat on their own patch, even without the assistance of VAR and an incompetent official, who gave Tarkowski a licence to injure. We now need to beat Newcastle and Sheffield United in our next two league games. We can finish in the top 5, anything better than that would be a bonus, but one that our season to date merits. 

[Sulberto21]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

you are right.

...but if you are waiting for officials, to protect us, you will have a long wait.....we have to do that for ourselves.

Why do you think Man City have Rodrigo?....why do you think SAF had Roy keane to look after his flair players, during their halcyon days.

You should have seen Eamon Deacy in his pomp, they didn't call him psycho for nothing....look the game has changed, I can hear it coming....but you still have to have a destroyer in the ranks, they are just stealthier with it, as Tarkowski, can testify.

Man city have Rodri because he’s one of the best technically gifted players in the world who can also defend through good positioning and anticipation. Roy Keane was also very good technically . 

[Dante_Lockhart]

1 hour ago, 6065_Villa said:

Shit ref

Shit game

And our front 3 never looked like scoring which is the main concern right now.

 

Yup, when the goals start drying up you begin to worry.

[El Segundo]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

.but you still have to have a destroyer in the ranks, they are just stealthier with it, as Tarkowski, can testify.

You think that performance by Tarkowski was stealthy?  Just because the officials couldn't see how out of control he was doesn't mean it wasn't blatantly obvious to everyone else. 

[onmeedson]

We tend to struggle against these sides and always tend to look tired and forlorn. The only difference yesterday was commitment, they had Tarkowski at the back a middle of the road player who terrorised our front three and stifled their will to win. We have seen this before but it was Dawson that time but the result was the same in taming our attack. Our midfield was on an awayday and heads dropped which is a trait we have to improve on, we are okay at handbags but lack that will to win attitude when it is needed . The guy who will step up and fight fire with fire not throw a bit of water from miles away and whine i did not get any protection. Maybe we should go all out for an early goal against these sides but we just do not play that way.

[The_Steve]

Had Moreno’s goal counted I think we’d score 2-3 more. Everton looked tired after 60 minutes and Diaby found a lot more space. The constant stoppages (excluding for head injuries) and the constant giving Everton free kicks massively disrupted the flow. 

[tinker]

If Tarkowski was playing for us in that game , with that ref , he would have been sent off. I have no doubts about that. Defending those type of challenges is absolutely stupid, if Diaby had his foot planted it would have snapped his leg in two. 

There's no room in the game for those tackles, saw a very similar one in the Coventry,  Leicester game and the ref sent the player off, won the ball and followed straight though into the player. 

Poster that want Tarkowski type players in the team can forget about it until Emery has gone, it's just not going to happen and neither should it, thug.

[allani]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

• The performance was not one of our best, in anyones language.
• We controlled the ball, when they backed off, when they come after us, we didn't.....we also play the ball around the back, which skews the possession stats, when no one is near us, ball control is bound to be good.
• I don't think our play, was ever convincing in this game, it was well below, what we was capable of, and the front players, were passive in their work.

We can have the tactical approaches, but if the players, don't apply themselves like they can, The tactics are less effective.

We had 2 weeks off, and they played like they need a rest.

PS 3rd in the table, is the games we played well in, that got us there......this game was not up to those standards.

It wasn't one of our best performances - no.  But it was still considerably better than most of our performances from not so long ago.  We had a plan, the players knew what the plan was and stuck with it.  Unfortunately, we didn't get the goal that we probably (just) deserved but we created chances and we pretty much nullified Everton's threat.  A 0-0 draw is frustrating but there were (in my opinion) more positives than negatives.  Perhaps the biggest positive again is that we are disappointed with a 0-0 away from home where we played the better football that is light years away from where we were not that long ago.  Also the fact that Everton set up at home to try and counter our threats is a pretty good sign of the progress we have made.  When teams are happy to take a point against us then things are generally looking good (it really wasn't that long ago that most teams would see us as a great opportunity for 3 points - home or away).

I actually thought (apart from the opening 15 minutes when McGinn in particular seemed to lose the ball every time he got it) we did better when Everton did come after us.  Sure there were a couple of times where we ended up having to just get rid of the ball - but we also created some really good openings when we slipped the Everton press in our box and were able to quickly bypass their entire midfield and get our forwards attacking their defence.  This typically allowed our forwards to position themselves further away from their defenders and so we weren't so susceptible to the man-handling that made it more difficult when we were dominating possession and position and Everton were defending the edge of their box in numbers.

I don't think our attackers were particularly passive - a lot of runs were blocked off illegally and Watkins was wrestled / manhandled out of things too much.

For me the issue is less about the tactics and more about the balance of our team.  McGinn, Diaby, Bailey and Ollie are all better at attacking players / space at pace (I'd also add Zaniolo and Ramsey to this list).  Kamara and Luiz are good at spotting passes and making space from slightly further back.  Without Tielemans we don't really have anyone who is really comfortable with the ball at feet in a crowded space on the edge of the opposition area.  Ollie's come on a lot this year but he's not going to trick his way past two or three defenders and his ability to make space for himself in a congested penalty area isn't great.  Diaby's struggling for confidence as I do think that his acceleration and quick feet should allow him to make space in tight spaces as well as when there is more space.  Bailey's doing that better but doesn't always make the best decision when he does find a yard of space (it kind of feels like he wants two yards to really commit). 

So I do think that's an area where we need another option - either someone tricky who can work some magic on the crowded edge of the box or someone who is a bit better at either ghosting into space in the box (and thereby creating a target for our midfielders / wide players to hit) or who can be a bit more muscular and push/bully defenders a bit more.  The trick is really that those players also need to work with our Plan A - i.e. the switch between Plan A and Plan B shouldn't necessitate changes from the bench (as that is a bit telegraphed) but we should be able to apply either as a particular situation unfolds.  That said I think there are a couple of things to note. 

Firstly, I thought Lenglet actually looked pretty good yesterday - but the fact remains that with either Pau or Mings playing in that position our quick transitions from deep are better AND (at least in terms of Pau) we're also better at picking out players in a more congested final third.  Knocking the ball back to Pau is less of a "reset" and more of a "can we find a different angle to play an attacking ball". 

Secondly, as I said above Tielemans is probably our best player at find a short pass in a congested area.  So those two coming back will provide us with some additional weapons against teams that set up like Everton did.  I'm still not convinced by Buendia (in terms of whether he's a top 6 player) but he'd be a good option for trying to unlock these kind of teams - and without his injury I think we'd have found out whether he "fits" this season one way or the other.  I am not sure that Bailey / Diaby work as a pairing especially away from home.  Tielemans gives us a better balance and also allows us to play McGinn in his better position.  I thought we looked more threatening once Tielemans came on yesterday and I do think that if he had been on the field from the start then we'd probably have found a way to score at least once.

Thirdly, I do think that signing a proper RB allows us to play Pau and Konsa in the middle - which I think is comfortably our best defensive pairing.  Carlos looks like he would have been a great signing (if he hadn't got injured) for the way we used to play but I don't think his distribution is anywhere near the level of Konsa or Pau.  I think this means that not only would we be better at unpicking packed defences from the central position - but it would also give us more balance left - right.  Cash doesn't really offer enough in terms of overlapping down the right and Konsa doesn't look comfortable trying to do it either.  So a RB who can ideally cross and defend well means that we can switch flanks more quickly and also play our strongest pairing of CBs.

So I do think we're only a couple of players returning from injury / maybe a couple of players off having the tools we need to adjust to the issues / challenges that you've identified.  We are tweaks away rather than wholesale change.  Weirdly, I kind of think that had we been less successful and were currently 6th on say 36 or 37 points then we'd probably be a little less concerned about performances like yesterday as we'd be comparing ourselves more with West Ham, Man Utd, Brighton, Chelsea, Newcastle, etc all of whom have either similar issues or bigger.  As it is we've kind of skipped straight past a "let's have a season where we are in the fight for the top 6 all season long" straight into a "we could finish in the top 4" battle - and so we're suddenly all comparing the tools we have to teams like City, Liverpool and Arsenal who quite frankly have had a good 15 years head start on us (minimum) in terms of the level of investment to build a rounded and balanced squad.  Obviously that is a good thing but I think it does mean that we are undoubtedly entering that fight with fewer options than we (and Emery) would like.  So I do think we need to be slightly careful that we don't become too critical.  There are too many examples of pressure rising on outperforming teams / managers too quickly and changes being made when people forget that actually the team is developing ahead of realistic expectations.  We shouldn't be getting on top of the team or Emery if we have these types of games this season.  Any finish of 7th or above is still a step forward from last season.  That doesn't mean that we can't aim to do better given the first 21 matches of this season but I do feel that there's almost the start of a "we're awful because we aren't going to win the title" sentiment (absolutely not from you - just to be 100% clear!) and we need to make sure that doesn't happen and that the fans continue to support the team and give them confidence to achieve more than we expected at the start of the season rather than start putting pressure on them because we might not achieve what we might have dreamed about a week before Christmas.

[DJBOB]

2 hours ago, Herman22 said:

Question for you! Why is there such a difference in xG from one site to another. This one says 0.99 to 1.82. Tells you Villa should’ve won the match. 

But then I see this website saying it’s 1.04 to 1.34 making it seem a lot more even. 

https://understat.com/match/22098

They all mine stats a bit differently so it just depends on the source. 

[allani]

6 hours ago, chips'ngravy said:

Some have described Everton's tactics as low-block, but that wasn't how they played. The periods they had every man behind the ball were when we pushing them back with our possession play. 

We had plenty of space to attack them and did so on numerous occasions through Moreno on the left. They actually played into our hands by trying to press us but not doing it well enough which enabled us to play through them and spark the kind of attacks we were accustomed to seeing a month or so ago. McGinn was off it today but it largely broke down up front with all 3 nowhere near sharp enough. Hard to be too tough on Bailey as he's been in such sparkling form of late so he was due a bad one. Ollie's touch wasn't good enough on a number of occasions and Diaby put in another insipid showing, his lack of confidence highlighted in the move when he was put through down the middle but checked back. 

As for the disallowed goal. Was it clearly offside? Clearly not, as it wouldn't have taken 4 mins to decide. They drew a line which was their ultimate response but you couldn't even see the player making the pass in the frame they used. So how could we tell if that was the right moment to freeze it? Very unsatisfactory to say the least. The fact they show them looking pretty clueless as to what or where the infringement took place only further underlines how confused the whole process is.

Exactly.  Also the other thing that confused me greatly is - why did they then move on from the Bailey offside question to see whether Lenglet was offside when Moreno shot?  They clearly decided that Lenglet wasn't interferring with play and hadn't impeded the shot in any way - and then went back to the Bailey incident again.  That was just weird.  It seemed like they were hoping that Lenglet was clearly offside and clearly interferring with play so that they could use that to make their decision.  But that immediately implies that they had some doubts about the Bailey position - especially as they had already spent 3 minutes reviewing it.

I know it is part of the current directive but what makes it worse is that when players are clearly 2 yards offside, the linesmen aren't allowed to flag immediately and so let attacks develop that either help build momentum or end up with the defending team recovering the ball but in a worse position than they would have been had the offside been given straight away.  There were a couple of times yesterday where the Everton player was well offside, we ended up recovering the ball but closer to our goal and Everton then pressed us and recovered the ball (either through a poor forward pass or by us clearing the ball into touch).  So they ultimately gained an advantage from a blatant offside when we should have had a freekick near the halfway line and had the chance to try and put pressure on them.  ** To be fair it also happened to Everton at least once as well. ** 

I do think that this is less about VAR and more about coming up with an offside rule that can be more consistently applied both with and without VAR.  It shouldn't take 5 camera angles and over 4 minutes to be able to check whether a player has gained an unfair advantage.  The danger with just applying a fuzzy / thicker line is that officials then just move their obsession with lines to whether the top stud of someone's boot touches the thicker line or not and they spend the same amount of time trying to apply the same "precision" to another criteria.  It is ridiculous.  Other sports have proved that you can improve the accuracy of decision making without having to spend a ridiculous amount of time checking for the minutest thing.  Rugby has amended its laws on offside and forward passes as technology has made it easier to check them to cater for unfair advantage rather than whether you are checking for a difference of 0.5cms.  Cricket has done similar - I mean the technology can absolutely determine whether a ball is 95% certain to have hit or missed the stumps but the "umpire's decision" option helps avoid bad decisions whilst still encouraging the umpire to make a decision (which in turn means that the umpires are pretty much applying the same rules whether DRS is available or not).

[RichW]

Predicted a draw before the game so wasn't a surprise to me that we dropped points here. 

Away from home, I think that was the most comfortable I felt watching Villa away since the Burnley game. DCL had that chance but apart from that I didn't really think they were going to score. Not really had any control of away games for a long while (results have been OK but the performances have been a bit concerning) but we managed to keep the crowd quiet. I guess the worry at the moment is the attack has dropped off a bit which is bound to happen to any team over the season. 

Hopefully after a 2 week break, a couple of big games against Chelsea and Newcastle with Torres/Digne and possibly Ramsey back we can get firing again. We tend to do well against the better sides in the division. 

 

[allani]

1 hour ago, onmeedson said:

We tend to struggle against these sides and always tend to look tired and forlorn. The only difference yesterday was commitment, they had Tarkowski at the back a middle of the road player who terrorised our front three and stifled their will to win. We have seen this before but it was Dawson that time but the result was the same in taming our attack. Our midfield was on an awayday and heads dropped which is a trait we have to improve on, we are okay at handbags but lack that will to win attitude when it is needed . The guy who will step up and fight fire with fire not throw a bit of water from miles away and whine i did not get any protection. Maybe we should go all out for an early goal against these sides but we just do not play that way.

That is a weird take considering how many points we have won so far this season in the last 5 minutes and / or injury time.  Not to mention the fact that we've just come off the back of a calendar year in which we have won the most number of league matches ever.  We created far more chances late in the game yesterday than Everton - apart from their one attack where the player was 2m offside and was allowed to carry on and put the ball past Emi before immediately being flagged offside.

I didn't see any heads drop at all.  Just because we aren't playing at 100 mph doesn't mean that the players have given up and thrown in the towel.

I'd agree that our front 3 aren't the physically strongest in the league but at the same time players like Kane and Salah aren't either and seem to somehow get better "protection" by making it much more apparent to the officials when they are being fouled.  I'm not saying I want our players throwing themselves to the ground and rolling around like they have been shot - but I reckon Ollie wins a lot fewer freekicks than a lot of other CFs because he's a bit too "honest".

Finally, it wasn't long ago that people here were moaning about the fact that we kept falling behind early in matches (especially away from home) and that we needed to make sure that we weathered the early storm and the early pressure.  Whilst we didn't start very well yesterday (in possession) we worked really hard at making sure that we didn't fall behind and leave ourselves chasing the game.

[allani]

6 minutes ago, RichW said:

Predicted a draw before the game so wasn't a surprise to me that we dropped points here. 

Away from home, I think that was the most comfortable I felt watching Villa away since the Burnley game. DCL had that chance but apart from that I didn't really think they were going to score. Not really had any control of away games for a long while (results have been OK but the performances have been a bit concerning) but we managed to keep the crowd quiet. I guess the worry at the moment is the attack has dropped off a bit which is bound to happen to any team over the season. 

Hopefully after a 2 week break, a couple of big games against Chelsea and Newcastle with Torres/Digne and possibly Ramsey back we can get firing again. We tend to do well against the better sides in the division. 

 

Torres and Tielemans being back and (hopefully) fit will be a huge boost.  Lenglet was OK yesterday but Torres is a key player for us with the way that Emery wants us to dominate the ball.  Similarly I thought we looked more threatening when Tielemans came on and McGinn went back to the right.  Everton have only won 2 points fewer than Newcastle this season (and their recent home form is better) - but I doubt people would have been so upset if we'd been playing at SJP yesterday and come away with a 0-0 draw.  Probably still be seen as a point gained rather than 2 points dropped.

[TRO]

19 hours ago, Paul33 said:

We haven't played particularly well since McGinn lost form. He is a key playmaker for us but I've never seen him as bad as he has been in recent weeks. Not sure what is up with him but he looks slow, ponderous, confused and, at times, disinterested !

He provides the bit of muscle up front, which forces errors......when he is played in the right position, and is on form.

We have to find a way to disrupt, organised defences.....passive play won't.

I don't think we should be busying ourselves, with what the opposition do, or moaning about crap officials......We can only control, what we do....we have to find ways of playing against them, that may require additional personnel more akin to this issue.

We have not shown the same assertive approach we employed against Man City and Arsenal, I am not saying its easy to sustain, but it is whats missing.

We have the talent, and we have just had 2 weeks rest, we have one of the best coaching teams around......its not those things.

When we have the ball, we allow ourselves to be shut down, too easily, by not shifting the ball, quick enough....that requires players off the ball to be alert and willing to move intelligently, so the player on the ball can find them.

We also don't protect the ball enough from eager opponents, they are allowed to disrupt our rhythm too easily.

All these are nuances, because the majority of or game is right.

I would like to see Ollie, show a bit more aggression, with his centre backs, and force errors from them, by closer contact.

It seems to me in some games, we are fine, and in games where the opposition, only see physicality as a levelling tool, it is working for them.

Edited January 15 by TRO

[sheepyvillian]

25 minutes ago, allani said:

didn't see any heads drop at all.  Just because we aren't playing at 100 mph doesn't mean that the players have given up and thrown in the towel

Correct. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

Man city have Rodri because he’s one of the best technically gifted players in the world who can also defend through good positioning and anticipation. Roy Keane was also very good technically . 

yes................but they have another element to their game, if you look for it....that maybe we are short of.......are you saying you cannot see a difference between Grealish or foden, because they are technically giffted too.

Technically gifted is a crucial element, but in some postions, other additional attributes are required.

When you reach the upper echelons of the Premier League like we have, playing some fine, fine, football....other challenges will come our way, we are finding that out.

When you get to our position, rarely can players rely on one dimensional elements to their game, they have to be rounded to sustain the rigours of this league.....its arduous, and we have to have personnel in the squad, who can deal, with arduous.

That does not mean filling the team, with thugs, but it does mean having fierce competitors, who can help free up, our flair players....we are too easily negated.

Edited January 15 by TRO

[DJBOB]

Eh - City have KDB. 
 
For as much guff as people talk about Rodri, and he is important, they’ve been very mortal without KDB. 
 
Stick KDB in this Villa side and Ollie will have 20+ goals easy and we win yesterday at a slight cantor. 
 
I kind of have to laugh @TRO . If only it were so easy to have either the best CDM in the world, or the best midfielder, or 100M Declan Rice!

 We’re about 3rd-5th right now and Everton showed us nothing we don’t already know. We don’t create enough chances or have the players to consistently open up teams in the final third playing low blocks. 

Edited January 15 by DJBOB

[Sulberto21]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

yes................but they have another element to their game, if you look for it....that maybe we are short of.......are you saying you cannot see a difference between Grealish or foden, because they are technically giffted too.

Technically gifted is a crucial element, but in some postions, other additional attributes are required.

When you reach the upper echelons of the Premier League like we have, playing some fine, fine, football....other challenges will come our way, we are finding that out.

When you get to our position, rarely can players rely on one dimensional elements to their game, they have to be rounded to sustain the rigours of this league.....its arduous, and we have to have personnel in the squad, who can deal, with arduous.

That does not mean filling the team, with thugs, but it does mean having fierce competitors, who can help free up, our flair players....we are too easily negated.

We are a fiercely competitive team as is proven by our 2023 points tally. We’ve been missing Tielemans and Pau recently and it has shown.